User talk:Mccunney

Available to discuss Anthony Gale or the Ashfield Gales. Mccunney (talk) 13:34, 21 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ballinakill

I note your work on Oliver Grace and also on sundry Butlers. It mentions Ballinakill. I wondered whether whis might be the same Ballinakill as Walter Butler of Roscrea? Is this another Butler link or just a co-incidence? Laurel Lodged (talk) 15:44, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am descended from Ellis Grace (who married Samuel Gale), a daughter of Oliver Grace and Elizabeth Bryan, which accounts for my interest in the subject. There are Butlers in the ancestry of both Oliver Grace and Elizabeth Bryan. The Butlers of Ireland are among the most complex families I have encountered. To my recollection, Ballinakill (in southeastern Queen's County) only appears in my posts regarding the Gale family, not the Butlers. I have not encountered Walter Butler of Roscrea in any of my research regarding the Butlers. His Wikipedia article does not mention his ancestry and his connection to the rest of the Butlers of Ireland is unclear. Mccunney (talk) 21:26, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

OK. Will try to beef up the ancestry section of Walter Butler of Roscrea. Would love to know if Ballinakill is in Tipperary (Roscrea) or "Queen's County" (Laois). Laurel Lodged (talk) 22:11, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There are (at least) two towns named Ballinakill - and each evidently has a castle. Ballinakill in North Tipperary is about 6 km southwest of Roscrea along the N7. It is the site of Ballinakill Castle (http://www.roscreaonline.com/content.asp?section=1051) dating back to perhaps 1580. Ballinakill in County Laois (formerly Queens County) is in the southeastern part of the county bordering County Kilkenny along route R432. It is the site of Ballinakill Castle built by the Dunnes (but never inhabited) in the late seventeenth-century on the site of one destroyed by Cromwellian troops. (http://www.goireland.com/laois/ballinakill-attraction-castles-historical-id13350.htm)

Pierce Butler of Paulstown bought land near the Tipperary Ballinakill Castle in 1580, while a branch of the Gale family (who married into the Butler family) lived in the Queens County Ballinakill. Mccunney (talk) 16:55, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting. I'll let Walter Butler's castle continue to be the (unrelated) one in Tipperary then. Added more stuff and filled in some ancestral gaps. Thanks for supporting the "retain" plea by the way.

I assume that the "Pierce Butler of Paulstown" you mention is not the 8th Earl. Could it be Piers FitzThomas Butler, the illegitimate son of the 10th Earl? How those Butlers loved to re-cycle names! Laurel Lodged (talk) 22:28, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Pierce Butler of Paulstown"

He appears in the discussion of the Tipperary Ballinakill Castle at http://www.roscrea.ie/content.asp?section=1051. According to this site, Pierce bought the land in 1580, so it cannot be Piers Butler, 8th Earl of Ormond, who died in 1539. It is unlikely Piers FitzThomas Butler, who is generally referred to as Piers Butler of Duiske, not Polestown. I assume "Pierce Butler of Paulstown" is a descendant of Walter Butler of Polestown (died 1506), son of Sir Edmund MacRichard Butler, since this branch appears to carry the Polestown designation forward.

I tear out my hair every time I research the Butlers since there are so many of them and they intermarry with each other frequently. I appreciate your posts since they have helped me sort out the various Butlers. I don't know why the Wikipedia deletion police were so eager to delete your legitimate article when Wikipedia is littered with senseless articles on minor celebrities and sports figures. Mccunney (talk) 23:34, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's a race to the death! Who will fill in the Galmoye category first? :-) Laurel Lodged (talk) 21:09, 22 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The sons of Walter Butler of Polestown do not include a Pierce (unless Peter is an Anglisication of Pierce). Did you mean his grandchildren? Laurel Lodged (talk) 21:20, 22 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've seen in a couple of sources where the names Peter, Pierce and Piers are used interchangeably. See:http://books.google.com/books?id=YIoUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA48&dq=peter+piers+pierce+butler&hl=en&ei=peNITPTOEoK78gaUzfngDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=peter%20piers%20pierce%20butler&f=false where this situation occurs in the family of Viscount Galmoy. It's really just a guess that the "Pierce Butler of Paulstown" of the Tipperary Ballinakill Castle website is Peter Butler, grandson of Walter Butler of Polestown. Since the date mentioned in the Ballinakill Castle website for the purchase of the land is 1580, the timeframe appears reasonably consistent. But your article refers to him as Peter Butler of Roscrea, not "Pierce Butler of Paulstown". He may just be (still) another Butler who we have yet to identify.

By the way, your article on the Butler dynasty and the Category:Butler dynasty was a terrific idea to sort, categorize and identify the various members of the Butler family. Mccunney (talk) 01:04, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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