User talk:Mrrsnhtl
October 2023
[edit]
Please stop. If you continue to blank out or remove portions of page content, templates, or other materials from Wikipedia without adequate explanation, as you did at Ardıçlı, Pülümür, you may be blocked from editing. Semsûrî (talk) 21:13, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
- Here is the adequate explanation. My family has been living in this village for almost a thousand years. So please excuse me while editing incorrect descriptions herein for which I think I have a right to do so. I never blanked out a part, however I have removed incorrect statements such as villagers being of Kurdish origin, and corrected typos such as the name of the tribe (Babamansur, not Bamasur). Please let me know if you need further adequate explanation for the edits. If you attempt to block my editing rights, then you may be blocked from being an editor for this page (a.k.a. a judicial process). Thank you. Mrrsnhtl (talk) 21:23, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
- You are removing well-sourced information and there's a plethora of references that describe the tribe as Kurdish. Semsûrî (talk) 21:48, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
- And what references are those? Are you or anyone you know from this village? Are you or anyone you know from Pulumur/Tunceli/Turkiye? I can survey a thousand people from this village and ask them how they identify themselves and the result will surprise you. Kurdish isn't spoken in this village. I respect Kurdish culture and identity, so if a Kurd is proud of their identity that's cool. Assimilating others into this identity is not cool. Show me any data (an actual survey) that relates the people from this village to the Kurdish identity, otherwise stop spreading false information and stop hindering my attempts to correct the wiki page of my village. Mrrsnhtl (talk) 00:02, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
- A quick Google search would have answered your question. Beside the current reference in the article, the trib is also mentioned in "Kurdish Alevis and the Case of Dersim"[1] and many many other works (so is the ocak). Semsûrî (talk) 15:32, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
- The village is also noted in "Forced Evictions and Destruction of Villages in Dersim (Tunceli) and the Western Part of Bingöl, Turkish Kurdistan, September-November 1994" and Peter A. Andrews' survey from 2002. Semsûrî (talk) 15:34, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
- Erdal Gezik is from Ovacik, he has no relations to Babamansurs in Pulumur and elsewhere in Tunceli. Besides he's out of Turkey since 80s, and quite biased like many other "Almanci"s. He does not have any references for his claims in his book about Babamansurs (or other mentioned tribes therein). Same goes for the other reference you provided, so these claims are basically based on hearsay. Similar hearsay-based claims also say that 100k died during the Dersim rebellion. Nonetheless, thank you for providing these references. If the truth for you is beyond what is written on the books, then you listen to the villagers of this tribe. If books and looks are more important, then keep believing in them. I'll make sure to keep correcting my village's page. Mrrsnhtl (talk) 15:45, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
- The village is also noted in "Forced Evictions and Destruction of Villages in Dersim (Tunceli) and the Western Part of Bingöl, Turkish Kurdistan, September-November 1994" and Peter A. Andrews' survey from 2002. Semsûrî (talk) 15:34, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
- A quick Google search would have answered your question. Beside the current reference in the article, the trib is also mentioned in "Kurdish Alevis and the Case of Dersim"[1] and many many other works (so is the ocak). Semsûrî (talk) 15:32, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
- And what references are those? Are you or anyone you know from this village? Are you or anyone you know from Pulumur/Tunceli/Turkiye? I can survey a thousand people from this village and ask them how they identify themselves and the result will surprise you. Kurdish isn't spoken in this village. I respect Kurdish culture and identity, so if a Kurd is proud of their identity that's cool. Assimilating others into this identity is not cool. Show me any data (an actual survey) that relates the people from this village to the Kurdish identity, otherwise stop spreading false information and stop hindering my attempts to correct the wiki page of my village. Mrrsnhtl (talk) 00:02, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
- You are removing well-sourced information and there's a plethora of references that describe the tribe as Kurdish. Semsûrî (talk) 21:48, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you disrupt Wikipedia. Semsûrî (talk) 17:59, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
- This is my final warning before I report you and your misconduct, for spreading propaganda instead of focusing on pursuing the truth, as well as keeping edit warring even though you provide no credible references (e.g. independently confirmed data gathered by independent groups). If Wikipedia reporting process is ineffective, and you keep abusing your editing powers to gatekeep a particular page, the subjects of those page have rights (and means) to pursue judicial action against you. Mrrsnhtl (talk) 19:41, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.Semsûrî (talk) 20:31, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
Your recent edits could give Wikipedia contributors the impression that you may consider legal or other "off-wiki" action against them, or against Wikipedia itself. Please note that making such threats on Wikipedia is strictly prohibited under Wikipedia's policies on legal threats and civility. Users who make such threats may be blocked. If you have a dispute with the content of any page on Wikipedia, please follow the proper channels for dispute resolution. Please be sure to comment on content, not contributors, and where possible make specific suggestions for changes supported by reliable independent sources and focusing especially on verifiable errors of fact. Thank you. AntiDionysius (talk) 20:43, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you for the notice. I did not make legal threats to Wikipedia, but to this particular user who is abusing his Wikipedian powers. Regards. Mrrsnhtl (talk) 20:44, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
- If you re-read the notice, you'll notice that what is prohibited is things that 'give Wikipedia contributors the impression that you may consider legal or other "off-wiki" action against them, or against Wikipedia itself'. In other words, legal threats against other users (which you have just admitted to making) are very much against policy too. AntiDionysius (talk) 20:46, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
- If you carefully read my user talk page (which I referenced in the report), you'll see that my statement is this "If Wikipedia reporting process is ineffective, and you keep abusing your editing powers to gatekeep a particular page, the subjects of those page have rights (and means) to pursue judicial action against you."
- I understand Wikipedia wants to protect is users. How about those who misuse their editorship? If wikipedia dispute resolution does not offer a resolution for this case, then I have a right to pursue judicial action, which is based on law above the Wikipedia rules. Mrrsnhtl (talk) 20:52, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
- No one here can stop you from seeking legal recourse; we don't have that power. But threatening to do so is a violation of policy, and may be grounds for your account being blocked. It's called the "no legal threats" policy; there really is no ambiguity. AntiDionysius (talk) 20:55, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
- I respect that. If I knew there was this policy, I'd keep the "legal threat" to myself until after pursuing the Wikipedia dispute resolution process. So I do a bit regret saying that to this particular user. You gotta also understand that this is not a random fandom dispute, but about mislabeling the identity of a particular group of people. Surely, you'd also get upset and feel discriminated if the Wiki page about your village said it's a Scottish village and their people are Scotts. Mrrsnhtl (talk) 21:04, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
- I'm not sure this precise metaphor works for my personal background; it would really just be bizarre if people asserted the place I came from was populated by Scots. But while there are many other issues about which I feel extremely strongly and which make me eye-poppingly angry, I feel confident saying there's never a situation in which I'd be inclined to take legal action over a Wikipedia page. AntiDionysius (talk) 21:12, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
- The point is, anyway, moot. I have no knowledge of or opinion on the substantive content dispute, and the issue of edit warring has been referred to admins by both of you. It'll be sorted out one way or another. AntiDionysius (talk) 21:15, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you for your kindness.. Let's say this is a complicated issue involving the long-standing fight between two ultra-nationalist fronts, and people from this region had suffered at the hand of both. Hence the sensitivity over their identity. Mrrsnhtl (talk) 21:33, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
- The point is, anyway, moot. I have no knowledge of or opinion on the substantive content dispute, and the issue of edit warring has been referred to admins by both of you. It'll be sorted out one way or another. AntiDionysius (talk) 21:15, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
- I'm not sure this precise metaphor works for my personal background; it would really just be bizarre if people asserted the place I came from was populated by Scots. But while there are many other issues about which I feel extremely strongly and which make me eye-poppingly angry, I feel confident saying there's never a situation in which I'd be inclined to take legal action over a Wikipedia page. AntiDionysius (talk) 21:12, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
- I respect that. If I knew there was this policy, I'd keep the "legal threat" to myself until after pursuing the Wikipedia dispute resolution process. So I do a bit regret saying that to this particular user. You gotta also understand that this is not a random fandom dispute, but about mislabeling the identity of a particular group of people. Surely, you'd also get upset and feel discriminated if the Wiki page about your village said it's a Scottish village and their people are Scotts. Mrrsnhtl (talk) 21:04, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
- No one here can stop you from seeking legal recourse; we don't have that power. But threatening to do so is a violation of policy, and may be grounds for your account being blocked. It's called the "no legal threats" policy; there really is no ambiguity. AntiDionysius (talk) 20:55, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
- P.S. Besides, I'm currently utilizing the dispute resolution tools of Wikipedia itself, before attempting to any off-wiki action. I do trust Wikipedia and its tools. Mrrsnhtl (talk) 20:49, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
- If you re-read the notice, you'll notice that what is prohibited is things that 'give Wikipedia contributors the impression that you may consider legal or other "off-wiki" action against them, or against Wikipedia itself'. In other words, legal threats against other users (which you have just admitted to making) are very much against policy too. AntiDionysius (talk) 20:46, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
You are not allowed to edit Wikipedia while the threats stand or the legal action is unresolved.
If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please review Wikipedia's guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text to the bottom of your talk page:
{{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}. v/r - TP 23:32, 8 October 2023 (UTC)