User talk:Pamela.nagler

Welcome![edit]

Hello, Pamela.nagler, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions, especially what you did for Mission San Fernando Rey de España. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! EricSerge (talk) 17:36, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Mission San Fernando Rey de España[edit]

Hi there, welcome to Wikipedia. If you don't like something, change it. If you want to discuss a change, do so at the Article's talk page. Discussing an article within the article is not necessarily productive and some may view it as vandalism. Be WP:BOLD, Wikipedia is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit. I will have a go at changing up the paragraph, if you won't. Cheers. EricSerge (talk) 17:39, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

For your convenience, I have moved your two discussion entries to the talk page. Here is a link to that discussion: Talk:Mission San Fernando Rey de España#Extreme bias. Please continue the conversation there rather than directly within the article. Binksternet (talk) 21:11, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment on Spanish missions in California Mission period (1769–1833) 2nd paragraph Each mission was to be turned over to a secular clergy and all the common mission lands distributed amongst the native population within ten years after its founding, a policy that was based upon Spain's experience with the more advanced tribes in Mexico, Central America, and Peru.[23] In time, it became apparent to Father Serra and his associates that the native Indians on the northern frontier in Alta California required a much longer period of acclimatization.[24] None of the California missions ever attained complete self-sufficiency, and required continued (albeit modest) financial support from mother Spain.[25] Mission development was therefore financed out of El Fondo Piadoso de las Californias ("The Pious Fund of the Californias," which originated in 1697 and consisted of voluntary donations from individuals and religious bodies in Mexico to members of the Society of Jesus) to enable the missionaries to propagate the Catholic Faith in the area then known as California. Starting with the onset of the Mexican War of Independence in 1810, this support largely disappeared and the missions and their converts were left on their own (as of 1800, native labor had made up the backbone of the colonial economy).[26] I take exception with - "a policy that was based upon Spain's experience with the more advanced tribes in Mexico, Central America, and Peru.[23] is a debatable point and printing this shows biash.

The California Indians created culture based on their circumstances and world view. No stone monuments, no written language - instead a sophisticated way of managing the natural world that left it after 15,000 years of occupation looking 'pristine'. Were they less advanced because they did not mine gold? I would delete the words "more advanced".

There is also a problem with the passage, "None of the California missions ever attained complete self-sufficiency, and required continued (albeit modest) financial support from mother Spain.[25]" I would add "None of the California missions ever attained complete self-sufficiency while under Spanish rule, and required continued (albeit modest) financial support from mother Spain.[25] Otherwise this sentence does not exactly reconcile with the last sentence that declares that after 1810, the missions were not only self-sufficient but also sustained the entire colony including soldiers, colonists, and government agencies and bureaucrats Pamela.nagler (talk) 17:44, 31 December 2012 (UTC) Pamela Nagler[reply]

I would like to encourage you to make article text changes as you see fit. Note that Mission San Antonio de Padua is well known to have attained self-suffiency. Binksternet (talk) 18:29, 31 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]