User talk:Waya sahoni/Archive 5

What?

I didn't remove any of your comments from Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration. You need to read the edit history a bit more closely. --BWD ^(talk) 06:10, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I note there's some sort of vandalism concerning that page, and you did remove the comments, check your revert history. Waya sahoni 06:11, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

No, read the edit history. I put your comments BACK into the page after a vandal removed it and spammed it. --BWD ^(talk) 06:13, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Wow! Thanks. I noticed that in the latter edit. I guess that person defacing that page is upset about something. Waya sahoni 06:14, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Unverifiable Sources

It's not vandalism to remove a source that doesn't seem to exist. Can you please provide *some* evidence that this book exists? Saying something is circulating as some Cherokee samizdat or is on the Cherokee internet doesn't provide us with means of checking it's existence. --Aim Here 12:40, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

And how do you know it doesn't exist? There are many sources cited in Wikipedia which are not online or listed in google. Provide a mailing address and I'll mail you a copy of it for review. It's copyrighted and cannot be posted. Waya sahoni 19:24, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't know it doesn't exist. I don't know it does exist. That's the problem, it's difficult to verify it even exists, making it useless at providing verifiable information, and possibly original research. You missed out the fact that neither the book nor the author are listed in the Library of Congress catalogue, meaning it doesn't have a US copyright registration, and thus they probably wouldn't sue you for breach of copyright. I'm sure it would be 'fair use' for you to scan a page or two, like the dustjacket and a couple of pages, and I reckon the author wouldn't mind if you took the opportunity to point everyone at an address where you could mail-order a copy of this no doubt fascinating volume. I'm still debating with my common sense whether it's a good idea to give a net.kook and barratry-specialist my name and address. I'll let you know... --Aim Here 21:24, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

You know, I did not write it, but I have a copy. I gave you a simple solution. Let me know when you want to review the materials. Waya sahoni 21:26, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

It is unlikely that he is going to give you his personal contact information. An even easier solution would be to give him the ISBN number of the book so he can look it up. If it does not have an ISBN number, then it really hasn't been "published," and as such, does not meet the notability criteria. --BWD ^(talk) 21:30, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually is does have an ISBN number, so you're wrong there. Waya sahoni 21:31, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I never said it didn't have one. I just said you should give it to him so he can look it up. --BWD ^(talk) 21:32, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Still waiting for an ISBN number on the book you use to justify WP:RS Vigilant 22:48, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

"Giving a copy" to one of us does nothing. We are not going to be legitimate reviewers of the book as WP:RS; all you do is perpetuate the current situation where someone allegedly has an otherwise invisible book in their personal possession. That could not be adequate WP:RS.

If the book exists and has an ISBN number, why do you continue to refuse to post it here? Your persistent failure to perform this simple act puts the lie to your entire charade. -- talks_to_birds 22:58, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, now let me dig it up and post the content. I think I'll just scan the relevant pages under "fair use" and post it somewhere to end the debate. Waya sahoni 23:00, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

The ISBN number is right there on the front page. You said it has one. Just type it right here in your talk page, and the other editors will be able to look up any info they need about it. --BWD ^(talk) 23:03, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I have to dig it out. I think its up at the office, so I'll run up there and get it. Please be patient, it might be later this evening when I post it. Waya sahoni 23:05, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Either produce the ISBN number or admit you made up the NPOV reference and remove the offending material. Vigilant 05:01, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Let me point out that the ISBN number will do little more than verify that *a* book has been published. Once we get beyond that fundamental issue, it remains to be determined that the contents of the book are reasonable from the standpoint of WP:RS, which is where we are really going in all this.

I will point out, by way of example, that there are published books with ISBN numbers that deny the existence of the Holocaust. -- talks_to_birds 23:21, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

You are adding content to the Native Americann projects in the form of page scans that do not have attributable and verifiable sources. You are hurting the very project you say you want to develop by not following the wikipedia copyright guidelines. Please consider whether this is good for the articles you're working on. Vigilant 00:58, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Waya sahoni's illegal changes to Allogan Slagle's copyrighted work not cited or verifiable by User:Waya sahoni

I liked many of the changes Waya Sahoni made to my Original Keetoowah Society wiki,

BUT I HAVE HERE ABSOLUTE PROOF OF BAD FAITH ON WAYA SAHONI'S PART.

After I put up the original "Keetoowah Nighthawk Society" wiki article, Waya Sahoni accused me in editing notes and on the Talk Page of injecting my personal beliefs, and then slashed and burned my article to suit him.

It should now be painfully pretty obvious that Waya Sahoni didn't know much about The Keetoowah Society before all this, but man, is he learning fast... and he has now gone from not knowing (obvious from his edit remarks at Keetoowah Nighthawk Society) about The Original Keetoowah Society to being an expert in it overnight... and now he is attempting to rewrite its history.

OOPS! He is now caught red-handed in several DOCUMENTED illegal attempts to change a Cherokee historian Allogan Slagle's 1993 copyrighted work.

After Waya sahoni chased me off of my original article at "Keetoowah Nighthawk Society" wiki, today Waya sahoni hypocritically and illegally removed WORDS from the "Original Keetoowah Society" wiki he didn't agree with FROM EXCERPTS OF AN HISTORICAL DOCUMENT COPYRIGHTED 1993 BY ALLOGAN SLAGLE.

His motive may be that he says he supports the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, (federally recognized in the mid 1970s) which has a policy of undermining The United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians, federally recognized in 1949.

There's only **ONE** Cherokee Nation. Waya sahoni 02:13, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Full text of Slagle's work "Burning Phoenix" is available at several places on the web, including http://thepeoplespaths.net/articles/BurningPhoenix.htm

Illegal chages Waya Sahoni has made:

Changes made between...

00:47, 13 March 2006 and 01:06, 13 March 2006

00:47, 13 March 2006: Waya Sahoni REMOVED The word "corrupt" from "corrupt cherokee government"

Waya Sahoni REMOVED THE WORDS "However, the Keetoowahs persisted as a political "

Even though Chief William Lee Smith is known to be dead, and my original text clarified who was chief and when, Waya Sahoni removed the words "as of 1984 and confirmed in the 1984 KJRH Television documentary Spirit of The Fire."

UKB historian Allogan Slagle confirmed that The Original Keetoowah Society "was the same group known as "The Nighthawk Keetoowahs" and Waya Sahoni illegally changed this known fact on the Original Keetoowah Society wiki to "evolved from the group known as "The Nighthawk Keetoowahs.""

Integration of Christianity and Divergence and fractures of the Society speaks for itself. And don't even try to justify the content about Christianity as part of **MY** traditional practice. We were not Christians, and this blended, new age huey, while part of Keetoowah history, is NOT our original culture. The Keetoowah Society evolved over time -- away from our true culture, spirituality, and beliefs. Waya sahoni 04:37, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Waya Sahoni also illegally removed Allogan Slagle's 1993 copyrighted words "However, the Keetoowahs persisted as a political body apart from the Cherokees by blood."

Waya sahoni's motive is pretty clear... Cherokee politics as usual... Brother against brother for control of U.S. Government moneies. Its sad, but The Keetoowah Origin Story said things like this would happen.

I demand that Waya Sahoni revert to Allogan Slagle's copyrighted words, and that he further be censured by Wikipedia authorities for these blatantly illegal actions.

There's no question you are a Cherokee based on your posting. Only a Cherokee is so hostile and confrontational. You have still failed to provide sources for your 3rd grade level english writings. I have tried to help you. It's also clear you're a UKB member and I can defintely feel the "mississippi burning" rage. I am making certain our culture is accurately represented. Also, read WP policies. Your work is subject ot being mercilessly edited. You will need to cite sources for this content or I may just remove it. Behave like you are housebroken while on this site, BTW. Thanks. Waya sahoni 02:04, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

No Personal Attacks, please. —Steve Summit (talk) 04:21, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

• Native American tribes, in general, were not Christians until Europeans forced it upon them. Our ancient traditions are what they are and Christianity has no part of that. --Bookofsecrets 10:48, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
• Parts of the page, including some passages being complained about here, seems to have been copied from Slagle's copyrighted and 'all rights reserved' book without attribution. Either Slagle gave no permission to do this, and the work ought to be deleted, or edited out of all recognition to the original, or Slagle agreed to license his work under the GFDL, in which case waya sahoni is well within his rights to edit them. Whether his edits were appropriate or not, I have no opinion, I'm just enjoying the novelty value of being on Jeff's side for once! --Aim Here 14:12, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi

I'd advise you to cease editing Jeffrey Vernon Merkey and let someone else do it, as you're currently involved in an RFAR over this. NSLE _(T+C) at 08:14 UTC (2006-03-14)

Confirmed. I will cease. I was finished with my other article for this evening and I had some photos and content to add to the article. I'll wait till the RFAR concludes if this is the policy. Thanks for keeping me out of trouble. Waya sahoni 08:16, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I've also asked the other editor to cease editing the article. NSLE _(T+C) at 08:26 UTC (2006-03-14)

You are awesome. Thanks. Waya sahoni 08:26, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Sleep

It's not that I don't sleep. It's that I don't sleep when everyone else is "supposed" to be. — Scm83x ^talk 10:04, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Osiyo Waya sahoni

Osiyo Waya sahoni. I have saved the article on the Wayland content and photo's for my personal private use. I did this in case someone decides to delete them. --Bookofsecrets 19:12, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

It's a public domain document so this is OK. I will get page 10 uploaded this evening -- it's missing. Waya sahoni 19:38, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

You will need proof that the author (and publisher) of this yet to be published book has released his work into the public domain or your images will be deleted automatically by wikipedia. --BWD ^(talk) 19:42, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Rankings at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Indigenous_peoples_of_North_America

Hello, I have taken out some of your article rankings at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Indigenous_peoples_of_North_America. The criteria state that "green" and FA are used for articles that have actually passed the Featured Article process. It is not for articles we think should pass, or that may pass some day. There is only one FA in the project: Mandan. I took out all the others. Also, please note that there is discussion ongoing on the talk page about whether we should review articles where we are the main contributor. We look forward to your thoughts. Johntex\^talk 20:58, 14 March 2006 (UTC)