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<noinclude>{{Wikipedia:Reference desk/header|WP:RD/M}}{{pp-move-indef}}
[[Category:Non-talk pages that are automatically signed]]
[[Category:Pages automatically checked for accidental language links]]
[[Category:Wikipedia resources for researchers]]
[[Category:Wikipedia help forums]]
[[Category:Wikipedia reference desk|Miscellaneous]]
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= April 7 =

== House with no heating ==

I overheard someone who said that an unoccupied house "will develop mold within six months and be ruined within a year", ostensibly due to lack of heating. However, I've been living in my house for 40 years without any central heating and there is no mold. Is this normal? When I hang my wet clothes to dry indoors they are bone dry within 3 days, so the water vapor must be going somewhere. Is it a cause of good ventilation? [[User:ZutenGato|ZutenGato]] ([[User talk:ZutenGato|talk]]) 00:17, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

:Good ventilation and a dry climate, I would guess. But I would think a lack of A/C or dehumidifiers would lead to mold more than a lack of heat, unless a water pipe freezes and bursts and keeps the walls damp. [[User:StuRat|StuRat]] ([[User talk:StuRat|talk]]) 00:20, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

:I googled "mildew in unheated house" and [http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/community/forum/general-questions/24112/unheated-home-dangers this] is one of a number of items that came up. ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 02:12, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

:Even in a wet climate (100 inches of rain a year) a house without central heating can be kept in reasonable condition by good ventilation on the (occasional) dry days. [[User:Dbfirs|''<font face="verdana"><font color="blue">D</font><font color="#00ccff">b</font><font color="#44ffcc">f</font><font color="66ff66">i</font><font color="44ee44">r</font><font color="44aa44">s</font></font>'']] 08:49, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

::In places with a [[monsoon season]], there may not be a dry day for quite some time. [[User:StuRat|StuRat]] ([[User talk:StuRat|talk]]) 23:11, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

*<small>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQzW6wz2JQk I lived in the desert in a house with no heat] [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 17:57, 8 April 2015 (UTC)</small>
:Does your house have no heating at all, or just no central heating? That would make a difference. [[User:Wardog|Iapetus]] ([[User talk:Wardog|talk]]) 11:36, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

==How much exercise is too much?==
{{hat|Sorry, we don't answer (and may remove) questions that require medical diagnosis or legal advice.}}
I recently started with a personal trainer. He demanded 3 sets of 15 with increasing weight. He made me do reps and spotted me to make sure I didn't drop anything. He warned me I'd be sore afterwards but this is something else. I can't bend my legs, I feel weird and uncomfortable, my muscles are swollen, and my urine turned brown instead of yellow. Is this normal after a workout? He said not to worry but I've never felt anything like this before. How long until it goes back to normal?

[[User:.anaxarchosanaxarchos|.anaxarchosanaxarchos]] ([[User talk:.anaxarchosanaxarchos|talk]]) 01:16, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
:You appear to be asking for medical advice. Medical advice isn't dispensed here. Please consult a doctor. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 01:21, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

:Totally a request for medical advice, which we don't do. This much is certain, though: If you died from the exercise, then it was too much. ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 02:05, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

:[http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/urine-color/basics/causes/con-20032831 This page] says "Muscle injury from extreme exercise can result in pink or cola-colored urine ''and kidney damage''" (emphasis mine). I'm mentioning this not as a substitute for a doctor's advice but in the hope of convincing you to actually talk to a doctor and not trust this personal trainer's assurance that everything is okay. -- [[User:BenRG|BenRG]] ([[User talk:BenRG|talk]]) 08:24, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
{{hab}}

== Traffic Signal Time and Coordinations ==

What I would like to know is the [[Traffic light control and coordination]] on various intersections it runs on different schedules and time modes, and when I contact the traffic engineers in my local city area, they all tell me the same thing "City of Mission Viejo have 70 intersection and the traffic engineer don't have all the schedules memorized at the top of their head". Is there any websites I can check my local intersections during the day if they run through free phase left turns lead and straight turns lag, or lead and lag phases when they allow one left turn to concurrent with straight turn and the other side have one left turn end as a concurrency terminus. I wish there is a website I can enter a "Intersection name" and they show me a data of the time stamps of how the signal phases runs during the day. Because contacting the city dept. is no use, they have too many intersections and nobody can ever memorize it, I wonder is there a website like that.--[[Special:Contributions/107.202.105.233|107.202.105.233]] ([[User talk:107.202.105.233|talk]]) 04:21, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
:I can't answer the specific question about a website, but an additional complication ''could'' be that the pattern at any one intersection might be set to vary depending on the time of day/night, to better fit predictable changes in traffic density and direction.
:On top of that, some places in the world use [[Adaptive traffic control]] (mentioned and linked from in the article you yourself linked above), so each intersection may change according to the actual traffic at or approaching it and also take into account traffic at/approaching adjacent intersections. In such a case the changes at any given intersection would be impossible to predict. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} [[Special:Contributions/212.95.237.92|212.95.237.92]] ([[User talk:212.95.237.92|talk]]) 12:07, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

:In my city, which is a very average U.S. city, there is no "set schedule." There is a general schedule that gets updated all the time. There are workers who adjust lights here, change lights there, and keep messing with the system as the traffic patterns change over time. So, it appears that you are starting with the opinion that there is a set schedule that states when lights will turn on and off. I do not believe that your opinion is based in reality. Therefore, the question that follows is more complicated that you appear to believe. A website that shows light timing would need to be updated constantly. I doubt anyone would want to pay taxes to fund a person who does nothing but update the light timing website all day long. [[Special:Contributions/209.149.113.89|209.149.113.89]] ([[User talk:209.149.113.89|talk]]) 12:09, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

:The signals in my area are controlled by a county Road Commission. I have spoken to one of the traffic engineers there by phone several times about backups at a particular intersection caused by poor signal timing. He was receptive to my suggestions and made some improvements. Unfortunately for you, the information you are seeking does not seem to be available to the general public. Some of the signals in my area have cycles that change to flashing red/yellow at midnight (because of light traffic) and change back to their normal cycles at 6am. Some major highways have synchronized or "timed" signals that (in theory) allow cars moving at the posted speed limit to travel for many miles without stopping for a red light. We also have a system of cameras/sensors at major intersections in the county that allow some variation in the length of the green light and green turn arrows depending on the current traffic flow. In my opinion, the range is too narrow to adequately respond to eliminate the time spent waiting for a red light when no cross traffic is present. To get back to your question, it would probably take more money than is available in the budget to adequately address everyone's traffic concerns by providing the information you seek. --[[User:Thomprod|Thomprod]] ([[User talk:Thomprod|talk]]) 14:35, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

::'''Coming to an intersection near you''' - Here in Britain we're trialling a device which matches traffic light sequences to a vehicle's speed and distance from an intersection to ensure that it never has to stop at a red light. It's only operational in one small part of one city centre at the moment and only being used by ambulances but it's going to expand. The aim is to speed up the flow of the driverless vehicles which are soon going to be the normal means of transportation. [[Special:Contributions/87.81.147.76|87.81.147.76]] ([[User talk:87.81.147.76|talk]]) 14:45, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

== Whiskey losing its smoky flavour? ==

In late March, I bought a bottle of Laphroaig 10 year old single malt Scotch whisky, because I had tasted it earlier and liked its extremely smoky flavour. I have been sipping it one or two centilitres at a time, and for the first week or so, it tasted extremely smoky, just as I liked it. But now I have found I can no longer taste the smoky flavour. Why is this happening? First of all, does this kind of thing really happen to whisky or is it only in my head? If it's really happening, what could I have done to prevent it? I have kept the whisky in plain view on my kitchen table at room temperature at all times. I just keep it almost constantly capped, I only ever remove the cap when I pour myself some whisky. During a 24-hour day, the whisky spends several hours in total darkness (while I'm sleeping), several hours in nothing but ambient sunlight (when I'm at work) and several hours in bright indoor lighting (when I'm at home after work). Could some of this affect it? [[User:JIP|<font color="#CC0000">J</font><font color="#00CC00">I</font><font color="#0000CC">P</font>]] &#124; [[User talk:JIP|Talk]] 20:06, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

: I think it is just you have become accustomed to the taste. [[Islay]] produces some other good Scotches too. Get some others and rotate them. Once bottled they don't improve anymore but on the other-hand they don't go off. Verity is the spice of life and whisky is the ''aqua vitae''. The mystery to me is how can you sip just a one or two centilitres at a time. I have heard of having just a ''wee dram'' but I think your taking traditional Scottish tightfistedness too far.--[[User:Aspro|Aspro]] ([[User talk:Aspro|talk]]) 20:44, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Laphroaig is my favourite tipple. This has never happened to me. Could it have been a rip-off imitation? --[[User:Dweller|Dweller]] ([[User talk:Dweller|talk]]) 08:39, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

: Just to clarify, the "smoky" taste of [[Laphroaig]] is usually attributed to [[peat]], as is characteristic of most [[Islay]] [[single malt whisky|malt whiskies]] (not whiskeys, as per question header). I suppose it's possible that exposure to the air in a half-full bottle could affect that element - perhaps you should do some [[controlled experiment]]s with new and older bottles to see if you can really tell the differnce... [[User:AndrewWTaylor|AndrewWTaylor]] ([[User talk:AndrewWTaylor|talk]]) 13:12, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

::At a "whiskyconnosr" forum, in a thread titled [http://www.connosr.com/wall/discussion/195481/how-long-does-whiskey-last-opened/ "How long does whiskey <nowiki>[sic]</nowiki> last opened?"] "Victor" seems to be saying that "heavily peated" whiskies may lose their "full peat blast" within the first month or two, particularly the smokey quality being based on the most volatile parts in the mix. ---[[User:Sluzzelin|Sluzzelin]] [[User talk:Sluzzelin|<small>talk</small>]] 13:33, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
:::No need for the <nowiki>[sic]</nowiki>, that is a perfectly acceptable spelling. Whisky is Scottish, whiskey is Irish. --[[User:Viennese Waltz|Viennese Waltz]] 13:51, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

The whisky really can't be a rip-off imitation. I'm certain it's the real deal. The reason is that I bought it from Alko, the only place in Finland where you can legally buy strong distilled alcoholic beverages, and they should know their stuff. I think the problem is that I've kept it out in the open for too long. Even though I have kept it almost constantly capped, I should have kept it in a closet shielded from sunlight and ambient temperature. I'll try another bottle of whisky in a few weeks. Hopefully I can find a better storage place. I don't have access to a cool cellar. I do have a fridge, but I think that would only worsen the problem. As I understand it, the whisky should be kept in a dark, only very slightly moist, environment a few degrees cooler than ambient room temperature. Currently I don't know of any way to do this. [[User:JIP|<font color="#CC0000">J</font><font color="#00CC00">I</font><font color="#0000CC">P</font>]] &#124; [[User talk:JIP|Talk]] 20:27, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

:This is just a thought. The Finns are very technologically advanced (''after all they invented Linus Torvalds and Rollmops''). How about decanting this into a ''wine bag'' Some have oxygen getters (absorbers) and being a bag it collapse anyway as one draws the liquid off (so atmospheric air does not get in). The sales desks of these companies [[http://www.packagingtoday.co.uk/news/newstransparent-plastic-cans-flexible-bags-to-package-wine-and-oxygen-absorbers-the-latest-innovations-in-food-packaging-4525460]] may only be interested in selling whole-sale but you can put it to them, that you may have a new and unrecognized market sector that they haven't considered. Talk to the right person and they might gladly send you free samples with which to experiment with. Keep all the receipts for the Scotch etc., and you might be able to claim the tax back as R&D research. To do the research properly, you may need to fly to Islay to discus this with the distillers – hence another tax deductible business expense = cheap foreign holiday. --[[User:Aspro|Aspro]] ([[User talk:Aspro|talk]]) 22:26, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
::Been done before apparently, see [http://www.howtodrinkwhisky.com/cromwells-royal-de-luxe-scotch-whisky-40/ ''Cromwell’s Royal De Luxe Scotch Whisky''], although not entirely successful - one review says; ''"Nose: Industrial solvent. That stuff they disinfect combs with. Color: palest yellow, dear god this is going to be awful. Taste: alcohol. Straight alcohol. Tiny hint of what I think might be urine. Awful. Finish: nonexistent. more urine. make it stop..."''. [http://www.reddit.com/r/Scotch/comments/1e2rr1/cromwells_deluxe_scotch_whisky_scotch_in_a_box_a/] [[User:Alansplodge|Alansplodge]] ([[User talk:Alansplodge|talk]]) 19:02, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
:::That last link took me to [http://www.scottishspirits.com/news.html ''Scotch in a can''] produced by a "proud to be Scottish" company in the [[Cayman Islands]]. Words fail me. [[User:Alansplodge|Alansplodge]] ([[User talk:Alansplodge|talk]]) 19:16, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

== 3D Custom Girl ==

Are there any video games similar to "3D Custom Girl" but with more features than just building and having sex with her? For example, I would like to feed her, bathe her, tuck her into bed, watch her fall asleep, etc. Sort of like a girlfriend version of a Tamagotchi but in anime style with good graphics. Thanks! <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2602:FFEA:1:AD2:0:0:0:7B35|2602:FFEA:1:AD2:0:0:0:7B35]] ([[User talk:2602:FFEA:1:AD2:0:0:0:7B35|talk]]) 20:51, 7 April 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:Not anime, but there are lots of [[Skyrim]] mods out there, you can probably get something close to that by asking this question at a skyrim modding forum. [[User:SemanticMantis|SemanticMantis]] ([[User talk:SemanticMantis|talk]]) 14:16, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

= April 8 =

== seat-belts on buses ==

How come on state-run buses the passengers don't have to wear seat-belts (and indeed, none are even provided) but the driver wears a seat-belt? If there was a crash the passengers would get thrown about and injured badly, which is the whole justification for seat-belts in the first place. How can the bus company get away with that? [[User:Nonproduct3|Nonproduct3]] ([[User talk:Nonproduct3|talk]]) 11:31, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

:What's a state-run bus? Anyway, if you're talking about the U.S., [http://publictransport.about.com/od/Transit_Safety/a/Why-Don-T-Buses-Have-Seatbelts.htm this page] might be of some help. &#8213;[[User:Mandruss|<span style="color:#775C57;">'''''Mandruss'''''</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Mandruss|<span style="color:#AAA;">&#9742;</span>]] 11:36, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

::A bus run by the state instead of a private company. [[User:Nonproduct3|Nonproduct3]] ([[User talk:Nonproduct3|talk]]) 11:37, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

::{{ping|Mandruss}} I don't know where you live but I presume it's the US. There are many states that have some sort of public bus system. They normally only operate in larger cities and are not a state-wide system but they are run by the state. In my own area in Vermont, we have the [http://www.cctaride.org CCTA] system which operates in and around [[Burlington, Vermont]]. Boston has the MBTA, etc. <span style="font-family:monospace;">[[User:Dismas|Dismas]]</span>|[[User talk:Dismas|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 12:52, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

:::In the UK (not what you are talking about, of course), all buses and coaches are run by private companies, and the local buses do not provide seat belts, presumably because there is less chance of an accident when going only 30mph in a built-up area (even though it ''is'' actually law for every passenger in a vehicle to have a seatbelt on), but the intercity coaches do have seatbelts, as they are travelling at 60mph on motorways. Having said that, trains don't have them, either. Ironically, we have seat belts on planes, which is fairly pointless, because if it crashes, the seat belt will not save you. You always get told to put your seat belt on while the aircraft is going through turbulence, as if they think all the passengers will be bouncing around the cabin. <span style="text-shadow:#BBBBBB 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml"><font face="MV Boli" color="blue">[[User:KageTora|KägeTorä - (<sup>影</sup><sub>虎</sub>)]] ([[User talk:KageTora|もしもし！]])</font></span> 11:52, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

::::I've been through fairly severe turbulence a time or two, and the seat belts are definitely important. ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 12:42, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

:::::I doubt it. It just means you can't go to the toilet for a short while after all the free beer. <span style="text-shadow:#BBBBBB 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml"><font face="MV Boli" color="blue">[[User:KageTora|KägeTorä - (<sup>影</sup><sub>虎</sub>)]] ([[User talk:KageTora|もしもし！]])</font></span> 12:51, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

::::::[http://www.businessinsider.com/why-you-keep-your-seatbelt-on-in-a-plane-2013-7?IR=T Yes, You Should Buckle Your Seatbelt On An Airplane] says: "Every year, about 58 people in the U.S. are injured by turbulence while not wearing seatbelts". Many crashes have no survivors but in some crashes a seatbelt can make a difference for some passengers. [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/aviation/9661829/Seatbelts-on-planes-are-pointless-says-Ryanair-boss.html Here] is a guy claiming seatbelts are pointless but he is the boss of a low-cost airline arguing that you shouldn't require seats either. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 12:53, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

::::::I don't know what airline you've been flying on KageTora but every one that I've seen charges (quite a bit) for beer. <span style="font-family:monospace;">[[User:Dismas|Dismas]]</span>|[[User talk:Dismas|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 12:55, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

::::::{{U|Dismas}} On [[Long-haul]] flights, food and drinks are free. <span style="text-shadow:#BBBBBB 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml"><font face="MV Boli" color="blue">[[User:KageTora|KägeTorä - (<sup>影</sup><sub>虎</sub>)]] ([[User talk:KageTora|もしもし！]])</font></span> 13:02, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

:In the UK, coaches have seatbelts but busses don't and I believe this is because they are multi-drop vehicles.--[[User:Ykraps|Ykraps]] ([[User talk:Ykraps|talk]]) 15:45, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

::To make sure my mental translation is correct, a British coach is essentially the same as a bus but it just goes for longer distances and doesn't have any standing passengers? <span style="font-family:monospace;">[[User:Dismas|Dismas]]</span>|[[User talk:Dismas|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 15:57, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

:::Yes. <span style="text-shadow:#BBBBBB 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml"><font face="MV Boli" color="blue">[[User:KageTora|KägeTorä - (<sup>影</sup><sub>虎</sub>)]] ([[User talk:KageTora|もしもし！]])</font></span> 16:23, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

:::And they tend to be more luxurious: the seats are plusher and recline, you get your own personal light and cool air blower (whoopee!)--[[User:Ykraps|Ykraps]] ([[User talk:Ykraps|talk]]) 22:00, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
:School and intercity buses utilize the concept of compartmentalization to reduce injury in case of an accident rather than seatbelts. By placing the seats very close together and making the seats quite tall, a passenger's entire body will press against the seat in front of them. The driver's seat has nothing in front of him but glass so a seatbelt is required to keep him from leaving the vehicle in case of an accident. Seatbelts are not used along with compartmentalization because the seatbelts would require a rigid seat while compartmentalization requires a bendable seat to absorb the kinetic energy of the passengers behind the seat. If every single rider was to always be wearing a 3 or 4 point seatbelt, seatbelts might be safer, but the addition of seatbelts would make those who do not wear them less safe. Also, seatbelts cost around $15,000 more to add to a bus and require space which would reduce the number of seats available on a bus. [http://publictransport.about.com/od/Transit_Safety/a/Why-Don-T-Buses-Have-Seatbelts.htm][http://www.ed.gov.nl.ca/edu/k12/busing/p_safest.html][https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI3UOMcmiME] [[Special:Contributions/70.50.122.38|70.50.122.38]] ([[User talk:70.50.122.38|talk]]) 17:41, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

::''"Figures show coaches and buses remain the safest form of road travel in the UK, accounting for 17 deaths per one billion passenger kilometres travelled, compared to 37 for cars and 1,500 for motorcycles. Nine people were killed in coaches and buses in 2005, compared to 1,675 in cars."'' [http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/seatbelt-law-impossible-to-enforce-for-bus-and-coach-passengers-1-676797] [[User:Alansplodge|Alansplodge]] ([[User talk:Alansplodge|talk]]) 18:14, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

:::The last sentence is quite irrelevant, since apparently far more passenger km's are traveled in cars. The 17 fatalities versus 37 per billion passenger km's is relevant. However, that 37 must include drunk drivers, drivers on drugs, drivers who use cell phones ("mobiles") while driving and drivers with medical problems. If you exclude those, I bet the fatality rate for safe car drivers is lower than buses. (Of course, safe bus drivers would be nice, too, but presumably you aren't going to ask your bus driver to pass a urine test before you get on the bus.) So, my take on all this is that seat belts on buses may indeed be warranted. [[User:StuRat|StuRat]] ([[User talk:StuRat|talk]]) 22:24, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

::::You forgot to post your sources, I would really like to see these sources of yours that show casualty numbers are lower among "safe car drivers" than buses. [[Special:Contributions/70.50.122.38|70.50.122.38]] ([[User talk:70.50.122.38|talk]]) 00:47, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

::::::Since I didn't list a number, but merely pointed out that the numbers listed lumped all drivers together, rather than separating good drivers from bad drivers, my source for that is the same as Alansplodge's. Something else I should add, since they looked at fatalities per total distance traveled, is that bus travel frequently requires more distance for a given trip, as buses rarely travel directly from your desired origin to your desired designation, thus increasing the risk. Also, there's some danger in walking to and waiting at the bus stop, not to mention being run over by your bus, although those risks don't involve seat belts. So, any conclusion that "buses are safer than cars" is highly questionable. (Buses also pose a risk to car drivers, but I'm not sure how that would fit in.) [[User:StuRat|StuRat]] ([[User talk:StuRat|talk]]) 13:25, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

:::::Much as I hate to admit it, [[User:StuRat]] has a point as [https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/243957/nts2012-01.pdf ''Department of Transport - National Travel Survey: 2012''] (p. 5 of 25) shows that car or van travel (either as a driver or passenger) accounts for 78% of the distance travelled in the UK, whereas buses only account for 5%. Somebody who is clever at arithmatic and has time on their hands can work out exactly how much safer that makes car travel. [[User:Alansplodge|Alansplodge]] ([[User talk:Alansplodge|talk]]) 13:06, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

::::::Stu's point is only apt insofar as he's pointing out some stats were scaled, and some were not. The ''standard'' way for assessing transportation safety is to scale by passenger mile. Ignoring drunk drivers is just silly, they cause a large amount of deaths. If you get killed by a drunk driver, you're still dead, right? By the standard measure, buses are indeed safer. By total injury, buses are also safer. Sure, you can slice stats in other ways, but there's a reason why the experts at [[NHTSA]] and similar agencies around the world use passenger-mile scaling- it's the sensible thing to do. [[User:SemanticMantis|SemanticMantis]] ([[User talk:SemanticMantis|talk]]) 14:14, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

::::::::Your chances of getting in an accident are far higher than the average if you drive drunk or impaired in any of the ways I listed. Therefore, your chances are much better than average, if you don't do those things. (Yes, another drunk driver could still cause you to get into an accident, but he could also cause a bus to get into an accident, so that doesn't much affect the relative safety of the two.) [[User:StuRat|StuRat]] ([[User talk:StuRat|talk]]) 00:38, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

:::::::Delivery drivers get in and out of their vehicles more frequently than other drivers, so are more likely to be run over by another vehicle. [[User:LongHairedFop|LongHairedFop]] ([[User talk:LongHairedFop|talk]]) 10:10, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

== http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk ==

What's the point of the "travel" link that goes off wikipedia to some other site? Why is it on the main page? <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Vangeard|Vangeard]] ([[User talk:Vangeard|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Vangeard|contribs]]) 18:53, 8 April 2015 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:It's there as a result of [[Wikipedia talk:Reference desk/Archive 97#Wikivoyage Tourist Office|this discussion]]. Questions such as "What are some good things to see in Bratislava?" or "How can I get from Wedmore to Climping on public transport?" are sometimes asked and answered here; but it may be thought that they're more appropriate for Wikivoyage's Tourist Office, and the site is, after all, a Wikimedia project just as we are. [[User:Deor|Deor]] ([[User talk:Deor|talk]]) 19:11, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

== Woman eating pizza ==

In America is it normal for a woman to order a full-sized pizza for herself only and eat it all in one sitting? <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/223.84.26.87|223.84.26.87]] ([[User talk:223.84.26.87|talk]]) 19:06, 8 April 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:That depends on what you mean by "full sized." Most restaurants have personal pizzas that are usually 6 to 8 inches (or 15 to 20 cm) [[diameter|across]], a small about 12 inches (30 cm) across, a medium about 18 inches (46 cm) across, and larger sizes that are at least a couple of inches wider than the medium.
:It is normal to eat a whole personal pizza by yourself in one sitting. It would not be unusual for someone to eat a small by oneself, especially if it was with nothing else. It is uncommon for anyone to eat a whole medium or large pizza by themselves. I'm a man, my height is 6 feet and 2 inches (188 cm), and my weight is 220 pounds (100 kg) -- and the only way I can eat more than half a medium pizza is if I do a lot of work without food before eating and do not eat anything else for the rest of the day.
:However, it is common in America for someone to order a pizza, eat some of it, and store the rest in their refrigerator for another meal. [[User:Ian.thomson|Ian.thomson]] ([[User talk:Ian.thomson|talk]]) 19:21, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

:Define "normal". ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 19:26, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
::Let me google that for you. Normal: conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected.[https://www.google.ca/?gws_rd=ssl#q=normal+definition] [[Special:Contributions/70.50.122.38|70.50.122.38]] ([[User talk:70.50.122.38|talk]]) 20:03, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
:::Wow, I didn't know there was an international standard for pizza consumption. ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 01:15, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

:Man or woman, no. But that does rest on your definition of a full-sized pizza. Pizzas can be ordered in various sizes by diameter, Personal- 15cm(650kcal), Small-25cm, Medium-30cm(2000kcal), Large-35cm(2900kcal), Extra Large -40cm. A large pizza would normally be split between two adults although if it is ordered as a late night snack rather than a dinner meal it may be split between 3 or 4. A personal pizza is only large enough for one and even then could leave an adult hungry. A small pizza could be finished by an adult with a large appetite. [[Special:Contributions/70.50.122.38|70.50.122.38]] ([[User talk:70.50.122.38|talk]]) 19:27, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

:::In what [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOR38552MJA bizarre, exotic country] do you live that a twelve inch diameter pizza is a "medium"? In the US [http://www.koronetpizzany.com/restaurants/ny/new-york/10025/koronet-pizza/menu our pizzas] (which are ''exceptional'', of course) come in small: 16", large 18", and jumbo 32" diameters. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 23:36, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::I've just measured out the size of a 16" pizza on my desk; it looks like a good meal for a family of three. If this is what Americans think of as "small" I think we can understand why obesity is on the rise! [[User:RomanSpa|RomanSpa]] ([[User talk:RomanSpa|talk]]) 18:16, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

:::::::Obesity is on the rise worldwide, it can hardly be blamed on one American invention. The pizza place my parents patronize has 14" small and 18" large pizzas, and they always get two pizzas, ten slices in one sitting and save the rest for the toaster oven. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 02:19, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

::::When I worked retail (<small>and would [[John Henry (folklore)|pull in more carts with a rope than the cart-pushing machine could do without breaking down]]</small>), a 12" microwavable pizza was something I'd fold in half and eat as a regular-sized sandwich. I almost get the impression that America is about the only place large enough that a single pie could feed four to eight people. [http://i.imgur.com/tTR3BkG.jpg This German menu] calls their largest size "American," and I'd have to buy at least two if I was covering dinner for my [[Dungeons & Dragons]] group. [[User:Ian.thomson|Ian.thomson]] ([[User talk:Ian.thomson|talk]]) 23:53, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
::::The question was about America which I thought meant USA so I used the American PizzaHut.com for sizes and calories - [http://www.pizzahut.com/assets/w/nutrition/BrandStandardNutritionalInformationFINAL111314.pdf]. [[Special:Contributions/70.50.122.38|70.50.122.38]] ([[User talk:70.50.122.38|talk]]) 00:37, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::Pizza Hut and Domino's are to manager-owned pizzerias as McDonald's is to a nice burger joint. A McDonald's "hamburger" is 1.6 ounces (before cooking) of patty; 8 ounces is normal for respectable establishments with table service. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 04:05, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
*As others have commented above the answer will depend upon the person and the pizza, and what you cosider "normal" (middle [[quintile]]? <90 [[percentile]]? within 2 [[standard deviation|sd]] of mean?). To give you an idea of ''[http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Place/80400530/pdf/DBrief/11_consumption_of_pizza_0710.pdf average consumption]'', though: "Among consumers of pizza [in US], the mean energy intake obtained from pizza was 538 kilocalories for children and 744 kilocalories for adults... The amount of energy contained in a slice of cheese pizza (1/8th of a medium, all crust types) ranged from approximately 220-370 kilocalories." That is, adults on average consumed the rough equivalent of 2-4 slices of a medium cheese pizza at a sitting. The [http://www.ars.usda.gov/News/docs.htm?docid=12068 Food and Nutrient Database for Dietary Studies] may have more details. [[User:Abecedare|Abecedare]] ([[User talk:Abecedare|talk]]) 20:30, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

*My own OR, but women usually eat one or two (never three) slices of pizza, while men will eat six slices at one sitting if they can get it, and all eight slices is not unheard of. Pizza for men is like chocolate for women. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 23:13, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
** The data cited above does not support the OR (there is some gender difference, but nowhere close to that). Beware of falling for or propagating gender stereotypes. [[User:Abecedare|Abecedare]] ([[User talk:Abecedare|talk]]) 23:55, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
***At this point I'm reminded of this Yogi Berra attribution: "Would you like your pizza cut into 4 slices or 8?" -- "Better make it 4. I don't think I can eat 8." ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 01:15, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
****I knew a waitress who told his customers, "I could tell you guys were hungry, so I cut you eight slices, rather than six." I was not aware that was an old joke. I am not sure how reporting my observations amounts to "perpetuating" a gender stereotypes. I don't know if I'm being told I'm delusional, or to hold my tongue for the good of the cause. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 04:05, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
*****It's doubtful Yogi ever actually said that, it just sounds like something he "might" say. He has often been attributed for quips that weren't his, hence his comment, "I never said half the things I said." As for your being lectured about gender stereotypes, that's too funny for words. ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 05:05, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

*MY OR is that it will depend on the size of the stomach and how hungry you are. It will also depend on the pizza. For example Pizza Hut makes a "cracker crust" style which can go pretty fast. The same might not be said for Chicago-style deep-dish pizza. ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 01:16, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Agree. There is pizza with really thin dough so you can easily eat a diameter of 40 cm when hungry (from a German perspective, the typical "Italian" pizza), and there is pizza where one or two slices leave you full. Also depends on the amount and type of topping. <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2003:69:CE25:C000:226:BBFF:FE17:86D5|2003:69:CE25:C000:226:BBFF:FE17:86D5]] ([[User talk:2003:69:CE25:C000:226:BBFF:FE17:86D5|talk]]) 11:29, 10 April 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

::<small>Anecdote alert: My brother went to Greece with three friends and one day they wanted a pizza, so they went to a pizzeria and ordered one each. The waiter said, astounded, "One EACH? Are you sure?", they replied, "Yes." The pizzas came a few minutes later, and my brother and his friends had to sit at four separate tables, because they were so big. None of them finished them. </small> <span style="text-shadow:#BBBBBB 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml"><font face="MV Boli" color="blue">[[User:KageTora|KägeTorä - (<sup>影</sup><sub>虎</sub>)]] ([[User talk:KageTora|もしもし！]])</font></span> 19:41, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
:::<small>Sounds like I'm going to Greece for my next vacation. [[User:Ian.thomson|Ian.thomson]] ([[User talk:Ian.thomson|talk]]) 02:49, 10 April 2015 (UTC)</small>

== Seeking Information on a Metronome's Manufacturer ==

I found your article on metronomes quite fascinating. Having recently purchased an old metronome my question is about it's possible manufacturer. An oval brass plate on it's front contains the initials "H L", a small crown underneath the letters, and the words "Improved Maelzel, Patent Applied For" is the only information contained. Any information you can share as to when and where it may have been made and by whom would be greatly appreciated.

Sincere thanks,
E Klodzen
[[Special:Contributions/184.1.34.87|184.1.34.87]] ([[User talk:184.1.34.87|talk]]) 20:00, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

:[[Maelzel]] is the name of the manufacturer. If he made it himself, that would put it somewhere in the decades around 1800, so you'd have quite an antique. If that wording is in English, then that's a little suspicious, although I suppose he might have made some for English-speaking nations. [[User:StuRat|StuRat]] ([[User talk:StuRat|talk]]) 20:47, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

::Several other manufacturers also use Maelzel's name on their plaque (see [http://www.antique-metronomes.com/makers.html this website]) and the "Improved Maelzel" could mean that the manufacturer is claiming to have improved ''upon'' Maelzel's design. Would help if op could take photographs of the metronome they own and upload it online somewhere. [[User:Abecedare|Abecedare]] ([[User talk:Abecedare|talk]]) 21:07, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

:::[http://pacshoppe.hibid.com/lot/485584/hl-wind-up-wood-cased-metronome-p-1899 Here's] someone auctioning an "HL Wind-Up Wood Cased Metronome P-1899"; but the description unfortunately contains no further information, and the photo doesn't show the manufacturer's plaque. [[User:Deor|Deor]] ([[User talk:Deor|talk]]) 22:27, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

: There's a photo [https://www.proxibid.com/asp/CatalogPrint.asp?aid=25235 here] of a "vintage HL metronome", which sold for $25. The photo is grainy and small, and cannot be enlarged. Above it is a "Seth Thomas metronome", so HL seems to suggest the name of the maker, but my searches for info on HL produced only this hit. [http://www.antique-metronomes.com/makers.html Here] are some older manufacturers and their plaques, including Seth Thomas. No mention of HL. -- [[User:JackofOz|<font face="Papyrus">Jack of Oz</font>]] [[User talk:JackofOz#top|<span style="font-size:85%"><font face="Verdana" ><sup>[pleasantries]</sup></font></span>]] 22:42, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

== bread ==

Is there anywhere I can buy a loaf of bread that doesnt have the crusts or the nasty burned bits at both ends? <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Estoy Loca|Estoy Loca]] ([[User talk:Estoy Loca|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Estoy Loca|contribs]]) 23:46, 8 April 2015 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:We have [[Crustless bread]] which doesn't have many specific examples of products and where to buy them. Just google "crustless bread" for lots more. [[User:Staecker|Staecker]] ([[User talk:Staecker|talk]]) 23:53, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

:However, note that the crust keeps the rest from getting stale. So, you can just buy regular bread, cut the crusts off each slice as you eat it, then toss those and the unwanted ends to the birds. [[User:StuRat|StuRat]] ([[User talk:StuRat|talk]]) 03:26, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

::Whence hails the OP that she gets bread with burnt ends? In our family get-togethers one has to ''ask Grandfather's permission'' to eat the nose. I can't think of ever having seen such burnt bread for sale in bakeries or stores of all ethnic persuasion, including plain old white-bread stores. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 03:40, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
:Such bread is available in Austria, see [http://www.oelz.com/en/sandwich-breads] for example. It is marketed as "sandwich bread" because all slices, including the ones at the end, can be used to make sandwiches. --[[User:Viennese Waltz|Viennese Waltz]] 08:03, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

:The Scottish standard [[plain loaf]] meets your requirements. [[User:RomanSpa|RomanSpa]] ([[User talk:RomanSpa|talk]]) 18:18, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
::Unless I'm missing something, neither the example shown by VW nor by RS are crustless at least from the pictures shown. VW's example seems to exclude the crust at the top and bottom of the loaf, but still has the crust on all four sides of each slice. RS's example excludes the crust on 2 sides of the slice, but has it on the other 2 sides. [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] ([[User talk:Nil Einne|talk]]) 15:48, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

= April 9 =

== Rate of murder conviction against police, compared to civilians in the US ==

It was suggested at ITN that police in the US being arrested for murder is rare (as compared to arrests of 'civilians'). I was unable to come up with any statistic on it. Can anyone find any reliable sources on the issue? Thanks. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 03:18, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

:Do you mean just in the line of duty, or also in the course of their private lives? If the former, [http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6148&context=jclc this 1979 study] found three convictions stemming from 1500 police killings over the previous 5 years, but doesn't seem to mention arrests (and also notes that its data may be incomplete). [http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/What-happens-to-police-officers-accused-of-murder-5840318.php A more recent news article] found that "at least 17" police officers have been charged with murder over the last 20 years (but none of those 17 convicted), but they also cautioned that their data is probably incomplete. It looks like the available data is not complete enough to get a reliable exact rate, but it seems likely based on what we do have that it's definitely rarer than the overall arrest and conviction rates at least. -[[User:Elmer Clark|Elmer Clark]] ([[User talk:Elmer Clark|talk]]) 07:02, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

::According to [http://www.propublica.org/article/deadly-force-in-black-and-white ProPublica], FBI's Supplementary Homicide Report documents >12,000 police homicides between 1980 and 2012 including 1,217 deadly police shootings between 2010 and 2012 although that database is "terribly incomplete" since it is not mandatory for police departments to supply that data, and many don't. [[List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States#Crowd-sourced projects to collect data]] lists some efforts to compile more comprehensive stats. [[User:Abecedare|Abecedare]] ([[User talk:Abecedare|talk]]) 07:16, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

:::Further, for the comparison, you need to know how many killings have been attributed to non-police (civilians). That will be incomplete. It is not a requirement to report it, so it is simply a guess. However, it is clear that the point of the question is to cherry-pick data to claim that police can shoot anyone they like whenever they like and not be arrested while civilians get arrested every time they think about shooting someone. In case you don't have access to American media, that is the hot topic now. Police have overtaken radical Islam as the worst threat to Americans. [[Special:Contributions/209.149.113.89|209.149.113.89]] ([[User talk:209.149.113.89|talk]]) 12:57, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

:::::Your analysis is incredibly ignorant, offensive and baseless. I have both seen police brutality and false arrest, and had the police solve the murder of a loved one and swarm my building in NYC within 30 seconds when my neighbor was shot to death by his wife. I am not trying to make a case for any claim, I am asking for evidence. That my asking for reliable sources amounts to "cherry picking" is a self-contradiction. You need to go analize yourself. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 19:00, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

:::: Unlike what the IP implies, stats about homicide in general (an overwhelming majority of which are by "civilians") are regarded as the most well-kept and trustworthy of all crime statistics since homicides are the hardest to miss, not report, hide, reclasify etc in real-life, ie, outside of novels, films, TV shows and our imagination. You can find homicides stats for US from [http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/1tabledatadecoverviewpdf/table_1_crime_in_the_united_states_by_volume_and_rate_per_100000_inhabitants_1993-2012.xls 1990-2012 here]. Note also that while reporting crime data to FBI is not mandatory, police organizations covering about [http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/1999/99sec1.pdf 95% of US] population do participate in the [[Uniform Crime Reports]] program. So while not "perfect", the total homicide stats are well-regarded in general and have been used is 1000s of academic studies over the past 80 years (in stark contrast to the "homicide by cops" numbers as the ProPublica article linked above and this [http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/reminder-the-fbis-police-homicide-count-is-wrong/ Fivethirtyeight column] note). [[User:Abecedare|Abecedare]] ([[User talk:Abecedare|talk]]) 16:57, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

{{hat|off topic}}
:::::So, this boils down to this claim: If a civilian kills someone, it is hard to hide it, so police report it. If a cop kills someone, police hide it and don't report it. [[Special:Contributions/209.149.113.89|209.149.113.89]] ([[User talk:209.149.113.89|talk]]) 17:42, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

:You asked about both arrests and convictions. Presumably police are less likely to be arrested, charged by a grand jury, and convicted, given the same evidence against them, than civilians, especially if the victim is black. For example, we had video evidence of the police choking a man to death with a baton ([http://gawker.com/nypd-chokehold-officer-stripped-of-gun-and-badge-1607938112]), yet the grand jury didn't bring charges. What are the chances that would have happened had the chokers been black civilians and the victim been a white police officer ? Without video evidence against them, chances of being convicted is far lower, still. Also, when charges are brought, they are likely to be lesser charges, like manslaughter. However, the increase in civilians with camera phones means there is more likely to be evidence against police, which they can't as easily destroy as their own video (assuming whoever took the video is smart enough to send it to the media instead of the police), so this might somewhat improve things. [[User:StuRat|StuRat]] ([[User talk:StuRat|talk]]) 13:51, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

::There is no need to bring black and white into it. James Whitehead was white. He was unarmed when he was shot and killed by a black police officer. The police officer was not reprimanded, let alone arrested. Simply because media is cherry-picking cases of white officers and black victims does not mean that black officers are not killing white civilians. To put it simply, do not assume that anecdotes from the media indicate data. [[Special:Contributions/209.149.113.89|209.149.113.89]] ([[User talk:209.149.113.89|talk]]) 14:15, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

:::I'd argue that's an unusual case due to the races: [http://www.texasgopvote.com/police-officers-say-orange-tx-cop-wrongfully-killed-unarmed-war-hero-over-racial-003061]. However, there is such a bias in favor of police officers that, in this case, it seems to have been more important than the bias against blacks. [[User:StuRat|StuRat]] ([[User talk:StuRat|talk]]) 17:13, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

::::My argument is that it isn't race. It is poverty. The best I heard it explained was by a past police chief Reuben Greenberg (if I remember his name correctly). He stated, to the best of my memory: There will always be heated conflict between people on the East side and the police because the people on the East side are poor and mostly criminals. Criminals hate police. [[Special:Contributions/209.149.113.89|209.149.113.89]] ([[User talk:209.149.113.89|talk]]) 17:33, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

* I am not looking for anecdotes and what a four day-old single purpose IP says is "his argument". Please take the race debate elsewhere. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 19:00, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
::Recall [[WP:HUMAN]], and perhaps refresh your memory on how dynamic [[IP address]]es work. Or just treat IPs with prejudice, whatever. [[User:SemanticMantis|SemanticMantis]] ([[User talk:SemanticMantis|talk]]) 19:17, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
{{hab}}

My thanks to Elmer and Abecedere. To answer Elmer, no, I am not looking for only charges in the line of duty, but for any murders, like domestic violence, etc. This can be compared to the general population rate, since it will very closely match the non-police civilian rate. Let me repeat my question: "It was suggested at ITN that police in the US being arrested for murder is rare (as compared to arrests of 'civilians'). I was unable to come up with any statistic on it. Can anyone find any reliable sources on the issue?" I am not interested in politicking or a race debate, just (preferably peer-reviewed) statistics. Thanks. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 19:07, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

:The ITN claim is easy to justify. There are approximately 20,000 police in the United States. That leaved at least 308,000,000 civilians. If every single police person was arrested for murder, that would be equivalent to 0.006% of the U.S. population. This is a fallacy of comparing quantities in disproportionate population sizes. The claim, as you wrote it, doesn't indicate that they are looking at percent of police. It simply states that arrests (total quantity) are rare. [[Special:Contributions/209.149.113.89|209.149.113.89]] ([[User talk:209.149.113.89|talk]]) 19:17, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
::I have made no claim, I have asked a question. You are not answering that question, you are making an irrelevant argument on the assumption I didn't learn ratios in elementary school. If you think the question should be different, start your own thread with your own question. I am interested in comparing the murder arrest or conviction rate of civilians in general to that of police. Please stop disrupting this thread. If you continue the disruption I will close your responses and report you for disciplinary action. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 19:52, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

*Does [http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/police-officers-arrested-for-murder-ferguson-bgsu This] lead you anywhere interesting? --[[User:Jayron32|<span style="color:#009">Jayron</span>]][[User talk:Jayron32|<b style="color:#090">''32''</b>]] 20:10, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

:Using Elmer Clark's statistics, there were about 4.7 murders per 100,000 citizens per year. I'm guessing the number of murderers per murder victim is only slightly less than one (i.e. multiple murderers are rare). In which case there might be roughly 4 murderers per 100,000 people per year. According to [http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table_74_full-time_law_enforcement_employees_by_population_group_percent_male_and_female_2011.xls] there are about 700,000 officers in US. So there ought to be roughly 30 officers who commit murder per year (excluding any killings deemed justifiable). In the general population, about 60% of murders lead to an arrest [http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/2012-clearance.gif], suggesting that roughly 18 officers should be arrested for murder per year to stay proportional. I don't know the exact numbers but news accounts make it seem unlikely to me that a police officer is arrested every few weeks for murder; hence, it seems plausible that police officers are charged with murder less often than the general population. Though one can't say from this data whether any difference is because they commit murder less often or simply that they get caught and charged less often. [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] ([[User talk:Dragons flight|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Some more data and estimates:
* '''Number of police killings''': although the number recorded by FBI's Supplementary Homicide Report is about [http://www.propublica.org/article/deadly-force-in-black-and-white 400/year] that is known to be a vast undercount and more recent estimates based on Bureau of Justice Statistics data is closer to [http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-new-estimate-of-killings-by-police-is-way-higher-and-still-too-low/ 1240/annum], and even that may be low by [http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/that-higher-count-of-police-killings-may-still-be-25-percent-too-low/ around 25%].
* '''Arrest and conviction stats''': According to [http://works.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1041&context=philip_stinson this presentation] by [http://works.bepress.com/philip_stinson/ Philip M Stinson] (the expert source cited in the article linked by [[User:Jayron32]] above) ''et al'', between 2005 and 2011, 104 police-officers (ie, 15/annum) were ''charged'' with murder or non-negligent manslaughter, although only 31 of those (ie 4 annum) were for shootings by on-duty officers (''Aside'': most of the violent crimes for which police officers are charged are committed off-duty, often involving domestic disputes, and with women constituting >60% of the victims). The conviction stats for these cases is unavailable, although the linked presentation does have conviction rates for violent crimes by police officers in general.
* '''[[WP:OR]] bottomline''': Based on the above numbers between 0.3% and 1.0% of police officers involved in a killing are ''charged'' with murder or non-negligent manslaughter; the conviction rate is necessarily even lower.
PS: I predict that there will be many more sources available if Medeis re-asks this question a year from now. [[User:Abecedare|Abecedare]] ([[User talk:Abecedare|talk]]) 02:00, 10 April 2015 (UTC) {{small|Added OR. [[User:Abecedare|Abecedare]] ([[User talk:Abecedare|talk]]) 02:35, 10 April 2015 (UTC)}}

:::Yes, including [http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Man-on-Stolen-Horse-Stunned-by-Sheriffs-Deputies-in-IE-299250951.html primary sources from California, today]. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 03:42, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

::(Below is an ec with Abecedare's excellent post above.)

::Thanks, DF & Jayron. I think that the article {{U|Jayron32}} has pointed out has one important statistic, that about 385 homicides a year are found "justified". If 10 percent of those deaths were actually unjustified (remember that the dead victim has no rights, and instead of the state having to prove the police were justified in killing a presumed-innocent suspect beyond a reasonable doubt, the police, not the civilian they shot, are given all the benefit of the doubt) then that means about 40 criminal killings a year.

::Of course that would require a study to demonstrate. But anecdotal evidence indicates that the justifiability of many of these homicides is dubious. Consider the [[Amadou Diallo]] case of 1999, where an African immigrant entering his own apartment with a key was shot 41 times, with the explanation being that when he pulled out his wallet upon being told to stop and identify himself, "his wallet looked like a gun." If that weren't considered justified, it would be [http://statelaws.findlaw.com/new-york-law/new-york-involuntary-manslaughter-laws.html second degree manslaughter by New York law]. Note the odd fact that when the victim of manslaughter is a police officer, the penalties are higher. Some people are more equal than others.

::The [[Anthony Baez]] case is more egregious, where a police officer with years of excessive violence complaints against him caused Baez's death. In the Diallo case, the shooters were primed to act during a stake-out for a suspected rapist. In the Baez case, officers became enraged when their parked car was accidentally hit by the ball during a [[pick-up game]] of [[street football]]. They arrested Anthony's brother for disorderly conduct, then forcibly arrested Anthony himself for verbally objecting. The officer was charged with homicide, but found innocent in a [[trial by judge]]. He was found guilty on Federal civil rights charges. The [[Sean Bell]] case is also of interest.

::This is of course speculation, if not entirely groundless speculation. What I am really interested in is first and second degree murders, as well as suicides and murders by ex-cops. I suppose this may be fruitless. Some 40% of murders go unsolved. It just seems odd there are no well-known direct studies on violence by the police compared to that by the public in general. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 02:03, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

:::Would you consider some issues with comparing police to the general public? My job, one of the most tedious and boring ones possible, is to compare statistics across large populations. In comparing police to the general public, there are important issues. For example, 24% of the U.S. is under 18. There are no police under 18. Therefore, if violent crime is more rampant in those under 18, you should not expect police to be similar because that population is missing. Similarly, 14% of the U.S. is over 65. If violent crime is far less for that population, you wouldn't expect that lack of violence to occur in the police force. Then, there are economic factors. Depending on your definition, 6-10% of the population is unemployed. None of the police are unemployed. If being unemployed is correlated to violent crime, the police wouldn't have that factor. Poverty (having income, but below the poverty level) is another factor that may be correlated to violent crime for which police wouldn't have. I am not attempting to sway your opinion. I am trying to help you improve your argument. If you want to compare a small population to a large population, the two must be comparable. As for the size of the police, CSLLEA works off of number of police per 100,000 people. It grows very slowly, currently at 251, but nearly 252. That puts the police population less than 0.003%. Then, there is yet another problem. There was a police murder in South Carolina very recently, Charleston County to be exact. That county tallied it up in the "murder" statistics. So, if you look at the number of murders among the "population", it will include that one. You will want to separate murders by police from murders by the population. I personally would also go in a different direction of separating out females all together. I would only look at males. What I would expect you to find (because I see the raw data before it gets mangled by others) is that among 20-30 year old males, there is an extremely high correlation between areas of poverty and people killed both by civilians and police (I avoided using the word "murders" because some have been ruled "justifiable" both for the civilians and the police). Under 20, the correlation remains for civilians, but the police population does not exist for comparison. From 30-40, the rates of being killed is still heavily correlated to poverty areas, but the rates of those arrested for murder decreases for both police and civilians. Therefore, based on my original research, I really believe that if you want to shine a light on this problem, you can do so easily by focusing on a comparison of 20-30 year old males (police and civilians) in poverty areas. Your populations will be smaller, the crime rates are higher, and the two populations are far more comparable. Then, I would also do a comparison to military and professional athletes. I know it is my own predisposition, but I believe that guys who are all muscle and no brains are more apt to using violence to solve problems. [[Special:Contributions/209.149.113.89|209.149.113.89]] ([[User talk:209.149.113.89|talk]]) 14:12, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

:::That's some good advice. But since I mean to include former cops, I would not exclude older non-police. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 16:13, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

* '''[http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2015/04/11/thousands-dead-few-prosecuted/ Thousands dead, few prosecuted]''': Washington Post's new investigative piece on the topic. [[User:Abecedare|Abecedare]] ([[User talk:Abecedare|talk]]) 05:10, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

== Male virgins ==

Does the statistical likelihood of a male virgin ever having sex decrease for every subsequent year that he remains a virgin over the age of 16? <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/118.97.191.234|118.97.191.234]] ([[User talk:118.97.191.234|talk]]) 18:11, 9 April 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:I doubt such precise statistics exist, plus due to differences in culture and life expectancy across the globe, such statistics would vary greatly internationally. Where I am from, Canada, I would guess the key age would be over 30years old. [[Special:Contributions/70.50.122.38|70.50.122.38]] ([[User talk:70.50.122.38|talk]]) 19:00, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
::The OP is in Indonesia, statistics there may be different. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 19:14, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
::Yes, I should have stated where I was from so the OP would know I wasn't from their nation...Anyways, actually my answer was wrong, I was thinking along the lines of difference in chances of a particular virgin and non-virgin who both are not opposed to sex, having sex (first time or again) before they die. When you pool people as virgins vs non-virgins the critical point is the age at which the first male has sex though that answer has no real world use. [[Special:Contributions/70.50.122.38|70.50.122.38]] ([[User talk:70.50.122.38|talk]]) 20:50, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
:It seems to me this must be true by definition (even if you start counting at younger than 16). Statistically speaking, there are a certain number of lifelong virgins, and as you remove more and more non-lifelong-virgins for each year of age as they lose their virginities, these lifelong virgins will make up a larger and larger proportion of the pool of remaining virgins. It's no different from saying that each year that you don't go to Disney World makes it statistically less likely that you'll ever go. The only question is the magnitude. -[[User:Elmer Clark|Elmer Clark]] ([[User talk:Elmer Clark|talk]]) 19:42, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
::Mathematically, this need not always be true by definition. As a counterexample, consider a hypothetical society with strictly enforced mores which prevent sex before marriage, and where all males on their 16th birthday become warriors and server for four years during which time they have a 50% chance of being killed in battle. Should they survive to their 20th birthday, they then return to their village where they spend one year cultivating a garden, building a home, and courting a future spouse who they marry on their 21st birthday. In this contrived example, a young virgin male on his sixteenth birthday has only a 50% likelihood of ever having sex, but should he survive (necessarily as a virgin) to age 20, his chance of eventually having sex has gone up to 100%. -- [[User talk:Thinking of England|ToE]] 00:14, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
:{{ec}} Yes, but the statement as asked is essentially empty. The probability of ever having sex between age 16 and death must include the probability of ever having sex between age 17 and death plus an added amount due to the probability of having sex between age 16 and 17. Hence, the statistical probability of ever having sex must be a non-increasing function of age. A more interesting question is how the probability of having sex ''per year'' changes. A bit more than half of all US teenagers self-report having had sex by the time they graduate high school [https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-new-teen-age/201006/yes-your-teenager-is-having-sex-it-s-not-bad], but by the late 20s more than 95% of people have had sex, and by the late 30s it is greater than 98% [http://i.imgur.com/xpWjWEQ.png]. Even if many people have sex in high school, many others don't and still go on to have a normal sex life later. There is no specific age by which one must start having sex. However, whenever a person starts having sex, it is important to do so responsibly ([[safe sex]]) and with due consideration of the needs and desires of one's partner. [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] ([[User talk:Dragons flight|talk]]) 19:54, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
::No. The question is not about "the probability of ever having sex between age 17 and death", but about the ''conditional'' probability of of ever having sex between age 17 and death ''for those who have not had sex before age 17''. And this is to be compared with the same number for age 18, and so on up. See ToE's response above for a hypothetical society where the answer to the original question would be no. --[[Special:Contributions/65.95.176.148|65.95.176.148]] ([[User talk:65.95.176.148|talk]]) 04:00, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
:::You and ToE read it as conditioned on the probability of living to be 17. I don't read the question asker's intent that way. I read it as, given I am X now am I more or less likely to die a virgin as time goes on. Future looking scenarios where the person dies young, obviously have a 100% chance of being dead, but if you care about ever having sex, you don't necessarily want to ignore that. Put another way, supposes a 16-year-old in a hypothetical war-like society has only 10% chance of living to be 17 but a 100% chance of having sex if they do. We could say either that the 16-year-old has either a 100% chance of having sex after age 17 (predicated on them living) or that they have a 10% chance of having sex after age 17 (including the chance they are dead). If you were a 16-year-old worrying about dying a virgin, then I think it makes sense to think about the future in terms of the latter probability rather than the former. [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] ([[User talk:Dragons flight|talk]]) 16:34, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
*The main purpose of college in the US seems to be getting laid. See [[Tom Wolfe]]'s ''[[Hooking Up]]'', and ''[[I am Charlotte Simmons]]''. A small but significant fraction of the people I knew during that period had lost their virginity before college. I know that all but one had lost it by the end of their freshman year. There's one friend who's never spoken of a boy or girlfriend, whom I have never interrogated. In any case, I would suspect those who do not loose their virginity before college graduation (age 22) will be a small minority, of whom the perpetual virgins will be a remainder. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 04:23, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
*:[[Correlation is not causation]]. You'd need to compare numbers of college attendees who lost their virginity at college to non-college attendees who lost their virginity in the same age bracket, but without going to college, to make your first statement valid. If it was found that non-college people get laid at similar (or possibly even higher) rates, then that throws that theory out... --[[User:Jayron32|<span style="color:#009">Jayron</span>]][[User talk:Jayron32|<b style="color:#090">''32''</b>]] 14:11, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
:::My first sentence was, "The OP is in Indonesia." I was only speaking about the purpose of college from the viewpoint of horny teens released from the tyranny of their hometown reputation and their highschool peers. For many, going away to college is liberation. I wasn't suggesting going to college caused one to lose one's virginity, just suggesting that one might suspect that someone who's not lost their virginity by graduation will be much more likely than a 16 year old virgin to remain a virgin.[[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 21:58, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

== mail addr for Gov Rick Perry ==

I want to write a letter to Gov Rick Perry but going through Google for several hrs am unable to find a mailing addr.. I'm not a stalker I have a subject he may be interested in for his Presidential run. You were recommended as someone who may be able to help.
If you're unable to help me please at least let me know.
I'm not really computer literate so if I'm doing something wrong I apologise. I don't know what or where the "tildes" key is on my keyboard, so cannot let you know I'm finished that way, sorry......found it![[Special:Contributions/2001:5B0:235F:F1F0:B0F3:768B:1490:2761|2001:5B0:235F:F1F0:B0F3:768B:1490:2761]] ([[User talk:2001:5B0:235F:F1F0:B0F3:768B:1490:2761|talk]]) 20:35, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

:Has campaign website, http://www.rickperry.org/, has a mailing address at the bottom:

::815-A Brazos Street, PMB 217
::Austin, TX 78701

:Assuming it is campaign related that is probably a good one to try. [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] ([[User talk:Dragons flight|talk]]) 20:40, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

:You could also try contacting him through his Facebook page [https://www.facebook.com/GovernorPerry] or on Twitter [https://twitter.com/governorperry]. He seems to really like his flags... and his new [[hipster]] glasses [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/reliable-source/wp/2014/02/25/rick-perrys-glasses-make-a-splash-but-dont-call-them-hipster-specs/] [http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/Latest-News-Wires/2014/0827/What-s-the-deal-with-Rick-Perry-s-500-hipster-glasses]. [[User:SemanticMantis|SemanticMantis]] ([[User talk:SemanticMantis|talk]]) 21:31, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
::<small>And world domination through ([[American Coalition for Clean Coal Electricity|clean]]) coal-powered death rays! [https://twitter.com/GovernorPerry/status/586219122213703680 Or something.] [[User:InedibleHulk|InedibleHulk]] [[User_Talk:InedibleHulk|(talk)]] 03:29, [[April 10]], [[2015]] (UTC) </small>

<del>In many cases, the USPS makes all effort to deliver the mail. Simply addressing a ailed letter to Governor Rick Perry, Capitol, Texas, will probably work, just not very quickly.</del> See below. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 05:53, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
:You could send it c/o Capitol Building, Congress Street, Austin, TX. But that should be used for correspondence pertaining to his governorship of Texas, rather than his campaign for the Republican nomination for the US Presidential election. [[User:LongHairedFop|LongHairedFop]] ([[User talk:LongHairedFop|talk]]) 09:57, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
::Perry is no longer governor, however. --[[User:Xuxl|Xuxl]] ([[User talk:Xuxl|talk]]) 10:02, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
:::Ah. The wording of the queriant's question throw me. As he's no longer governor (he left on 20th Jan), you shouldn't write to him about governoral matters. Best bet, as others have mentioned, is c/o his campaign team. [[User:LongHairedFop|LongHairedFop]] ([[User talk:LongHairedFop|talk]]) 13:23, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
::::The adjectival form is "gubernatorial". Sneaky of Perry to leave office without notifying the rest of the country. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 16:05, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

= April 10 =

== Uncensored version of police beating horse-thief suspect? ==
The L.A. NBC affiliate has published this [http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Man-on-Stolen-Horse-Stunned-by-Sheriffs-Deputies-in-IE-299250951.html video of a man on his belly with his hands crossed to be cuffed] then getting kicked and or punched repeatedly both by the immediately arresting officers, and others who run to join the beating. Does anyone know of an uncensored link to the video (in other words, the reporters' live commentary)? Thanks. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 03:47, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

:That audio is not present on any of the YooToob versions I found. Therefore, given the masses of diligent YooToob feeders, I think it's safe to assume (1) the audio was never recorded, or (2) the audio was removed or lost before the video was broadcast or otherwise escaped from the TV station (was this live?). "Uncensored" assumes too much considering the number of other ways the audio could be lost, including various technical problems. &#8213;[[User:Mandruss|<span style="color:#775C57;">'''''Mandruss'''''</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Mandruss|<span style="color:#AAA;">&#9742;</span>]] 05:38, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

::Thanks for looking, I spent a good twenty minutes at it. It's quite blatantly an editorial decision, the coincidence with the violence was far too obvious, and the reporter says nothing about the sound going out when she comments in a follow-up piece where she is 'interviewed' by her co-workers. This will perhaps be leaked or be admitted as evidence in the officers' state assault and federal civil rights trial, at which point it will be subject to a freedom of information act inquiry. I'll keep looking. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 05:50, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

:::If it was an editorial decision, it was a good one. Her inane play-by-play commentary — ''Suspect being Tased! Suspect being Tased!'' — added nothing useful and, in Wikipedia lingo, was original research. What followed very well might have sounded too biased for the station to broadcast; viewers can clearly see what was happening and make their own interpretations. Actually I'm curious why you're interested in that commentary. &#8213;[[User:Mandruss|<span style="color:#775C57;">'''''Mandruss'''''</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Mandruss|<span style="color:#AAA;">&#9742;</span>]] 05:55, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

::::I see you don't deny this was censored on purpose. I am interested in it precisely because it was censored. Excited utterances and the recorded speech of eyewitnesses have special import in US courts, although given the video exists a judge might exclude the commentary as unnecessary if it was prejudicial. In any case, the "reasonable person" standard holds, and this broadcaster is presumably a seasoned reporter. As for bias, are we supposed to believe she started off, "Yeah, ''kick'' that motherfucker! Don't just beat him, shoot him in the head! Ooh, this violence arouses me," or did mean something else? We most certainly would not exclude such verbatim speech from being posted if it were verified. I am asking no more. Are there reliable sources that give the unedited cut? [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 07:47, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

''Note:'' It's debatable which is more inflammatory, the thread or the hat. In any case, a hatter should identify themselves, especially in borderline cases. Why should it be necessary to find the edit in the history in order to establish that I didn't do it because I didn't like Medeis's comment? The mad hatter were: 117.173.108.206. &#8213;[[User:Mandruss|<span style="color:#775C57;">'''''Mandruss'''''</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Mandruss|<span style="color:#AAA;">&#9742;</span>]] 13:16, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

*Given that the video was shot by the very TV station that released it with the audio-commentary partially cut-off there are unlikely to be any other versions available with the commentary unless such a version is (1) leaked, or (2) released by the media organization, or as part of legal proceedings, sometime down the line. [[User:Abecedare|Abecedare]] ([[User talk:Abecedare|talk]]) 16:13, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

::Yes, I was wondering if perhaps the live broadcast itself was uncensored, just the following release. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 20:35, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

== What is the criteria for a British NHS doctor (GP) to refer a patient to the mental health services? ==

Assuming a patient went to their doctor with a physical problem, but the doctor noticed something wrong with the patients mental health. What criteria or threshold of behaviour would cause the doctor to make a referral to the mental health services? Is there a checklist of "signs and symptoms" a doctor looks for in their patients? For example, if the patient expresses paranoid thoughts to the doctor, will that generate a referral? [[User:NHSdoctors|NHSdoctors]] ([[User talk:NHSdoctors|talk]]) 11:30, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
:The term mental health, just like physical health, covers a large number of potential conditions. There is no universal checklist. A GP's course of action depends on the symptoms displayed and their own professional judgement. [[User:Dalliance|Dalliance]] ([[User talk:Dalliance|talk]]) 12:02, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
:It is entirely possible for you to ask your GP about this. He or she will be more than willing to explain - that is part of their job. <span style="text-shadow:#BBBBBB 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml"><font face="MV Boli" color="blue">[[User:KageTora|KägeTorä - (<sup>影</sup><sub>虎</sub>)]] ([[User talk:KageTora|もしもし！]])</font></span> 13:09, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

:Today, in 2015 the mental health resource in the UK are under such strain, that to refer even just a third of patients with a mental health issue would make the system collapse entirely. Thus the threshold (in practice) is were the GP believe their patient is close to endangering the lives of others. Should they not refer such a patient and that patent causes death of another (''and very, very few do – compared with the rest of the 'normal' mentally sane population''), the GP knows they may have to come up before a [[GMC]] inquiry for negligence. For everyone else, they just proscribe pills and [[platitude]]s. Shame, because Britain was one of the pioneers of effective health treatment that returned such people, back into society so that they could become productive citizen once more. In these modern days of automation – there is no shortage of labour – so the same need doesn't exist to treat effectively. So the current criteria is: “''Is this patent potentially dangerous enough to bump he/her up the priority list and get him some proper treatment?''” Oh, No. A doctor will not explain this to a patient or relative because their patent or relative is desperate and begging for effective help and could cause a very emotionally difficult consultation for the GP - (''GP's have feeling and a sense of empathy towards their patients too'') but their hands are tied now as to what help they can provide. --[[User:Aspro|Aspro]] ([[User talk:Aspro|talk]]) 13:27, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

::It's not just the doctor who might notice something wrong with the patient's mental health. Patients themselves understand when they are mentally ill and there are emergency mental health services which they can contact. This area has some of the best mental health provision in the country. A patient can walk into A&E and if necessary a doctor will liaise with the staff in the mental health unit which is next door and the patient can be admitted the same day. There are area mental health units which a patient can visit and the central unit has a crisis contact point accessible directly from the street which can be visited or telephoned 24 hours a day. [[Special:Contributions/87.81.147.76|87.81.147.76]] ([[User talk:87.81.147.76|talk]]) 14:37, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

::: First up, '''criterion''' - singular, '''criteria''' - plural

:::I cannot go along with Aspro's comments. Whether there is strain on the system or not should not influence the doctor's or your opinion about the need for referral to the mental health services. Services grow (or should grow) depending on the demand for that service within the population. If there are reduced referrals because someone foolishly thinks that they may cause strain on the system or there might be a long wait to be seen is doing society an injustice and doing the Department of Health a favour - not to mention the patient. What happened recently when emergency departments were overwhelmed with patients? the government found a few million pounds to alleviate the problem. A more pertinent cause of the reduced budget and general service shortfall in mental health services in the UK is the lack of political clout that the service and its managers have. Compare cancer or childrens' illness with mental health and most people will prefer to support the former two. This is largely due to the stigma that still attaches to mental health disorders and the appalling ignorance on the part of politicians and the public about mental illness.

:::Finally, for Aspro's benefit [http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000294.htm this is worth a look]. [[User:Richard Avery|Richard Avery]] ([[User talk:Richard Avery|talk]]) 15:08, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

:::: <small> Second up, '''children's''' - possessive plural, not '''childrens'''' - possessive non-existent. :) -- [[User:JackofOz|<font face="Papyrus">Jack of Oz</font>]] [[User talk:JackofOz#top|<span style="font-size:85%"><font face="Verdana" ><sup>[pleasantries]</sup></font></span>]] 00:11, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
::::: Ha ha, very good Jack, Thank you. [[User:Richard Avery|Richard Avery]] ([[User talk:Richard Avery|talk]]) 07:04, 11 April 2015 (UTC) </small>

*I agree that it ''should not influence the doctor's or your opinion'' but when the mental health infrastructure has been cut to the bone to only admit emergences what option has the GP got but to hope for the best and offer platitudes and drugs. This links into 87.81.147.76 comment. Yeah, they might be able to walk in to any A&E but until recently I did volunteer work for a mental heath charity and if they walk in they were told to see their GP until the problem became so bad that the police delivered them to to hospital – in the back of a van in a ''cage''. <small>If you got taken to hospital in a cage would, that do yourself esteem any good or would it make your feel even more retched than you already felt?</small> Only then did they get admitted, because they were becoming a danger not only to themselves but other and so law enforcement had to take over. So instead of nipping the problem in the bud at the start, there are now legal issues, complex social problems that social workers are now expected to unpick, etc. etc. Britain used to be a great naval nation and they knew the meaning of [http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/spoil+the+ship+for+a+hapworth+of+tar.html Spoil the ship for a ha'pworth of tar]If the brakes on your car start to fail, do you say to yourself “''oh well Im going to sell it soon so I will leave the next owner to fix them.''” The NHS now does not wait for people to get lung cancer, it actively promotes the cessation of smoking. Why is mental health now become different over the last decades? Four out of ten experience mental health problems at sometime in there lives and it is an eye- opener to console weeping police officers, executives, etc. that have found themselves admitted and bewail ''“but I should not be here! I cant be in a mental ward. These places are for the hoi-poli. I am different”''. It is such a shock to them, that the initial response is one of absolute and total denial. Mental illness can hit anybody out of the blue and the pills that their GP's gave them was no substitute to avoid the eventual crisis. <small> Today a 'crisis' now mean that things have got to a stage that their wives ''out of fear'' have got a court order to prevent them seeing their children and there careers ends in tatters. Instead of not paying income tax for a few months, they end up 'chronic' and unable to work at all for the rest of their lives. Think about all those skills gone to wastes for a ''ha'pworth of tar''</small>. The OP asked for the criteria - it has now been provided - and mental health professionals will back me up on every word (save perhaps for the word prescribe - it is Latin for ''something that has to be written before'' and whilst on this occasion it was not my spell checkers fault but mine entirely. [[User:Richard Avery|Richard Avery]] ([[User talk:Richard Avery|talk]]) is, me thinks, nit picking), (and I can recommend to him a remedy for nits, if he finds he continues to suffer form this complaint ;-)--[[User:Aspro|Aspro]] ([[User talk:Aspro|talk]]) 16:42, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

::::: Thank you, I think we are both on the same side Aspro. "Mental health professionals"? I worked in mental health as a registered nurse for 30 years. ;-) [[User:Richard Avery|Richard Avery]] ([[User talk:Richard Avery|talk]]) 07:04, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
:In the UK, we have secure mental health units all over the country for patients which have indeed expressed mental health issues. If a GP is concerned about whether the patient will be an immediate danger to others or him/herself, then the GP will refer that patient first to A&E, where the patient will be once again assessed, then referred to the actual mental health unit (whichever one has a bed available at the time), then assessed once again there, usually upon arrival. They try to get patients into units which are closest to their next-of-kin, but this does not always happen. Patients are then given medication to deal with their problems ([[librium]], [[thiamine]], and Vitamin B+, to deal with any substance abuse issues which may have caused the mental problems), and optionally sleeping tablets. Some are given [[lithium]] to deal with mood swings. They are re-assessed twice weekly, with the aim of getting them well as soon as possible, as, unfortunately, the NHS needs the beds. <span style="text-shadow:#BBBBBB 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml"><font face="MV Boli" color="blue">[[User:KageTora|KägeTorä - (<sup>影</sup><sub>虎</sub>)]] ([[User talk:KageTora|もしもし！]])</font></span> 13:54, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

*If you want immediate, highly personalized mental health services in the US, all you have to do is (as a black woman) [http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/exclusive-woman-held-psych-ward-obama-twitter-claim-article-1.2159049 mention that Obama follows you] on twitter. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 00:31, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

It's normally better to try and talk the patient round to it, first. Same as any illness, you can't treat it unless the patient is persuaded they need help. Criminals can't be rehabilitated unless they admit guilt. Lack of awareness is a problem, so they might not know they have a problem, but be open to it being addressed.

I have mental health issues, but I got simple disrespect and bad customer service from several NHS psychiatrists. I no longer trust them. I asked the GP to be referred (against his objections) to a private psychiatrist in Ireland - at my own cost, and hassle. I am recovering, but it is only because I trust her to treat me. I still would not consider it being done locally, and I still see the NHS as Skynet. If the GP referred me to anyone without my knowledge, it would have been very, very hurtful.

It also depends on the doctor and patient, and your interpretation of 'paranoid thought'. Doctors have the power to detain a patient for their mental health; but normally that would be overkill. It is almost always better to do so in the community - de-institutionalisation is the theme in ''The Rain Man''. For hospitals, it varies: the State Hospital in Lanarkshire is a top security hospital for dangerous patients, eg. who have killed someone. Most detained patients are in lower security; and many are not secure at all. I formerly worked at a mental hospital where, if a patient absconded, they didn't do much. --[[User:Crazy Aberdeen Guy|Crazy Aberdeen Guy]] ([[User talk:Crazy Aberdeen Guy|talk]]) 16:35, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

== Photo location help ==

I've tried to find out the location on that [https://www.google.com/search?biw=1280&bih=899&q=maureen+guy&tbm=isch&tbs=simg:CAQSsAEJ60i1P_1xiQi0amwELELCMpwgaiAEKOggCEhSbC84I4gi4C8wIxgjdFI8IowmeCxogYu8EBk37bnuVGQZrtlCMN3N9NlsWxqpTCOH9yFXVFrYKSggDEhSdB54H9QHVDvQB-ATXDsUC1g7YDhowrHA2nJj0mzNVd5QcZaerCbz_1eK9Es4omMHUzRhRBlIKtn1RVGCJ0VzntSl-VsxHiDAsQjq7-CBoADCH8t-gSS8Apqg&sa=X&ei=7OEnVdyqE8iisAXFxIGgBA&ved=0CBsQ2A4oAQ this photo] was taken, but have had no luck. It was probably the United States or Ireland, but I need to find out which. Can anyone else figure this out? --[[User:Steverci|Steverci]] ([[User talk:Steverci|talk]]) 15:18, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

: You should link to a specific image, not to a Google search result; I see a bunch of identical portraits of a woman (with no background), which surely isn't what you're meaning. -- [[User:Finlay McWalter|Finlay McWalter]]'''ᚠ'''[[User talk:Finlay McWalter|Talk]] 15:21, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
::[https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/73/13/cc/7313ccb5916a65f3c9dd8fe499505156.jpg Here] is the specific image; it's [[Maureen O'Hara]]. --[[User:Steverci|Steverci]] ([[User talk:Steverci|talk]]) 15:47, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

:That is a studio headshot. She did not work in a studio in Ireland. She started in London. She moved to Hollywood. This would have come from her agent (which, because she used a film clip initially, is doubtful) or as publicity for a movie (which is more likely). I expect it to be from movie publicity from RKO. The hair style makes it hard. She wasn't known for having her hair so closely tied down. [[Special:Contributions/209.149.113.89|209.149.113.89]] ([[User talk:209.149.113.89|talk]]) 16:43, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
::It is likely taken in America, but O'Hara did return to, and work professionally in, Ireland after coming to the U.S. Films she was in were shot on location in Ireland, such as [[The Quiet Man]]. It is possible she had the headshot physically taken while she was on location in Ireland for a shoot. That being said, it is nearly impossible to tell where the picture was taken just from the picture. There's no geography or contextual clues to say where it was taken. It's a portrait against a white background. --[[User:Jayron32|<span style="color:#009">Jayron</span>]][[User talk:Jayron32|<b style="color:#090">''32''</b>]] 18:26, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
:::I tried looking for places and times she wore her hair like that for a clue, and it seems the only time she did was for [[The Fallen Sparrow]], which was made by RKO. Is this enough evidence to prove to Commons that the picture was made in the United States (and thus is free to use)? --[[User:Steverci|Steverci]] ([[User talk:Steverci|talk]]) 18:43, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

::::I believe that it is beyond reasonable doubt that this is a studio photo. The studio, RKO, is a U.S. studio. They would have owned the photo. So, while it may have been taken in Tahiti, Mongolia, or Zimbabwe, it is still owned by a U.S. company. [[Special:Contributions/209.149.113.89|209.149.113.89]] ([[User talk:209.149.113.89|talk]]) 18:47, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

*Don't know where, but it was taken in 1955. See caption for [http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/hara-maureen-schauspielerin-irland-portrait-1955-news-photo/545927647 this stock-photo from the same session] (Caution: the Ireland in the caption is a reference to "Irish actress" and not the place where the photograph was taken). [[User:Abecedare|Abecedare]] ([[User talk:Abecedare|talk]]) 19:03, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
::Well, Getty credits it to Ullstein Bild, which seems to be a similar stock-image service operating in Germamy. I found the photo on ullsteinbild.de as a thumbnail, but it seems you need an account in order to use the "more details" button. --[[Special:Contributions/65.94.49.82|65.94.49.82]] ([[User talk:65.94.49.82|talk]]) 20:44, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
::That's odd, because the photo I linked is supposed to be in the early 1940's, which is when the movie was made. --[[User:Steverci|Steverci]] ([[User talk:Steverci|talk]]) 21:25, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

:::Ullstein Bild is a stock photo company. The 1955 date could be nothing more than the date the image was added to their catalog. [[Special:Contributions/75.139.70.50|75.139.70.50]] ([[User talk:75.139.70.50|talk]]) 00:04, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

== dinosaur unscientific classification ==

are there a unscientific classification of dinosaurs?--[[Special:Contributions/151.76.241.71|151.76.241.71]] ([[User talk:151.76.241.71|talk]]) 18:04, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
:Sure. There are enormous ones, big ones, medium-sized ones, small ones, and a few little tiny ones. There are ugly ones and pretty ones. Scary ones and nice ones. If you want a better answer, please clarify what you are trying to figure out. [[User:Looie496|Looie496]] ([[User talk:Looie496|talk]]) 18:12, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
::There is also the argument that the term 'dinosaur' is unscientific in that it includes species more distantly related to each other than some species it excludes, at least as the term is commonly understood. See the discussion regarding birds (descendants of [[theropod]] dinosaurs) in our [[dinosaur]] article. As far as [[phylogenetic nomenclature|phylogenetic taxonomy]] is concerned, if dinosaurs are a legitimate clade, there are currently dinosaurs nesting in the trees outside my house... [[User:AndyTheGrump|AndyTheGrump]] ([[User talk:AndyTheGrump|talk]]) 18:24, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
::::{{small|By implication, the term "dinosaur" is now itself a dinosaur. ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 19:38, 10 April 2015 (UTC)}}
:::::<small>Actually, it's a metaphor - another sort of beast entirely... [[User:AndyTheGrump|AndyTheGrump]] ([[User talk:AndyTheGrump|talk]]) 20:37, 10 April 2015 (UTC)</small>
:::I intead to only dinosaurs not avians, I intead to a cassification by bybehavior and appearance (e.g. big carnivorous dinosaurs, small carnivorous dinosaur, dinosaur whit armor, horned dinosaur, big herbivorous dinosaur whit long neck et ect.)--[[Special:Contributions/95.247.25.222|95.247.25.222]] ([[User talk:95.247.25.222|talk]]) 19:57, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
::::Nobody is going to stop you classifying dinosaurs how you like - but don't expect qualified experts to agree with you. [[User:AndyTheGrump|AndyTheGrump]] ([[User talk:AndyTheGrump|talk]]) 20:01, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

:::Not all scientific terms have to be [[cladistic]], some are descriptive and useful because members share share common characteristics other than ancestry. For example, [[aerobes]] are not a clade, nor are [[marine mammals]] or [[trees]] or [[algae]]. As long as "dinosaur" denotes a reasonably well-defined group of scientific interest and discussion, it doesn't necessarily matter that the group isn't a clade. [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] ([[User talk:Dragons flight|talk]]) 20:00, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
::::As I said, "there is an argument that the term 'dinosaur' is unscientific..." the argument, and the reasoning behind it, tells the reader much about how science (or at least biology) classifies things. That science still manages to have rational discussions about 'trees' or 'marine mammals' suggests that the argument hasn't necessarily been won - and probably suggests that when it comes to classifying things, pragmatism isn't of itself unscientific. Accordingly, one can have a rational scientific discussion about 'big herbivorous dinosaur whit long neck', as long as one makes clear that one is using the classification for a specific purpose, and that one isn't necessarily implying any particular evolutionary relationship. Classification in of itself is neither inherently scientific or non-scientific - the distinction is more a question of what is implied by the classification. [[User:AndyTheGrump|AndyTheGrump]] ([[User talk:AndyTheGrump|talk]])
::::::Indeed. [[Tree]] is a good example. Definitely not a good formal grouping, nor a clade, but also certainly it ''is'' a useful group, and we'd be silly to try to avoid it. We of course ''do'' have dinosaurs flying through our yards if we take the term to mean the clade (as many paleontologists do); that's why "non-avian dinosaur" is a common term in the literature. [[User:SemanticMantis|SemanticMantis]] ([[User talk:SemanticMantis|talk]]) 20:30, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::::That's entirely true. We have all sorts of informal classifications that have no basis in evolutionary biology. [[Berry]], [[fruit]], [[vegetable]], [[monkey]], all just a few classifications which are common, but have no basis in biology, or alternately, which have conflicting biological classifications from the common one (berry, in particular, seems to have to completely non-overlapping definitions between the common use and biological. It seems the majority of foods we call berries aren't actually botanical berries, while lots of things we'd never classify as berries should still be classified as such). The thing is, context matters. What makes sense to a biologist may not to a cook. Or as someone wiser than me once said "Knowledge will tell you a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom tells you not to put tomatoes in a fruit salad." --[[User:Jayron32|<span style="color:#009">Jayron</span>]][[User talk:Jayron32|<b style="color:#090">''32''</b>]] 02:40, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::::Another good one is "bug" - which most people would use for insects, spiders, butterflies and a bunch of other things. It's useful to have generic words for things in order to avoid having to do a detailed classification when time is of the essence. "&lt;scream&gt; Steve, there's a huge bug in the bathtub!"...is a sufficiently precise form of communication. In this context, there is no need to count six legs but not count pseudo-legs and look for the segmented body plan in order to use the unnecessarily precise term: "insect". The same thing is true for words like "dinosaur". We may want to say things like "When dinosaurs ruled the Earth" as a convenient short-hand. Excessive precision is often counter-productive - a classic example being the ridiculous argument about whether Pluto is a planet or not. If your robotic lander is in orbit around the thing, you'll probably want to say things like "Let's land on the planet now" without having to pick a more scientifically precise term when ambiguity is simply not an issue. We do this all the time...if I ask you whether a pickup truck is a car - you'll probably say "No" - but if I ask you to count the number of cars ahead of us in the drive-thru lane, I bet you'd include pickup trucks in the count. Informal language is stuffed full of that kind of mess...which is actually a good thing when rapid, approximate communication is needed. The important thing is to use more precise language where it actually matters - and to know when to mentally flip between modes. [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 13:31, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

*The OP is apparently asking for a [[Typology (archaeology)|typological classification]]. The internet [https://www.google.com/search?num=100&newwindow=1&q=%22typological%22+classification+of+dinosaurs&oq=%22typological%22+classification+of+dinosaurs&gs_l=serp.3...17748.20312.0.20633.2.2.0.0.0.0.118.232.0j2.2.0.msedr...0...1c.1.64.serp..2.0.0.iworQnDhg5c mentions] typological classifications of certain bones and eggshell fragments. But basically, any research is likely to be done within valid groups, like the sauropods and their skulls and backbones. The only common non-genetic classification I have heard of would be the herbivorous, versus the carnivorous dinosaurs, which would group the sauropods with the bird-hipped dinosaurs (the brontosaur with the triceratops, ''e.g.'', instead of with their closer cousins, the tyrannosaur. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 21:31, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

== succubus ==

Are people who claim to have summoned a demon/succubus for sex delusional or does such a thing actually exist? <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/117.163.201.237|117.163.201.237]] ([[User talk:117.163.201.237|talk]]) 19:49, 10 April 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:There is no widely accepted [[scientific evidence]] of actual [[demons]], [[succubi]] and such things, which would strongly suggest that people who say they have had an experience with such things are likely to be either delusional, intentionally lying, or in some other way mistaken. Though if you know such a person, maybe encourage them to take a picture next time. [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] ([[User talk:Dragons flight|talk]]) 20:11, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

:Here [http://beforeitsnews.com/religion/2014/03/terrifying-demon-sleeping-wyou-succubus-incubus-a-paranormal-romance-with-the-devil-a-womens-personal-encounter-2466098.html] [https://drintimacy.wordpress.com/incubus-and-succubus-sex-demons-of-the-night/] are some accounts from people who believe that such things exist. Many people would classify this as [[crackpot]] territory. On the other hand, people believe in lots of things, from [[miracle]]s to the [[invisible pink unicorn]] to the [[Garden of Eden]]. So if you don't want a scientific perspective (you didn't ask on the science desk), then you get to believe whatever you want. [[User:SemanticMantis|SemanticMantis]] ([[User talk:SemanticMantis|talk]]) 20:24, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

::Just to clarify, no one actually earnestly believes in the invisible pink unicorn. It only exists to serve the purpose of mocking people of faith. Without confirming, denying, or passing normative judgement on anything else you noted people believe in, I just needed to clarify that. --[[User:Jayron32|<span style="color:#009">Jayron</span>]][[User talk:Jayron32|<b style="color:#090">''32''</b>]] 21:31, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

:::"Mocking" doesn't seem quite right. It's to show that believing in things based on faith, as opposed to evidence, leads to absurd beliefs. See [[reductio ad absurdum]]. [[User:StuRat|StuRat]] ([[User talk:StuRat|talk]]) 00:32, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

:::Hm... weren't we talking here recently about how you can't [[prove a negative]]? I'll admit that the invisible pink unicorn has very few serious devotees, but I'd hesitate to rule them out completely ;) [[User:SemanticMantis|SemanticMantis]] ([[User talk:SemanticMantis|talk]]) 16:40, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

::Accepting that the Eden story was a metaphor for the hunting-and-gathering lifestyle, to claim it never existed is one of the traps atheists tend to fall into. ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 02:13, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

:::The invisible pink unicorn is just a valid as God, Allah, Buddha or any of the other multitude of magical sky pixies people conjured up before they understood the world. As for the OP, those people are either lying or mentally ill. [[Special:Contributions/82.21.7.184|82.21.7.184]] ([[User talk:82.21.7.184|talk]]) 08:13, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
:::: That extremely narrow range purports to cover all possibilities, but doesn't go anywhere near it. -- [[User:JackofOz|<font face="Papyrus">Jack of Oz</font>]] [[User talk:JackofOz#top|<span style="font-size:85%"><font face="Verdana" ><sup>[pleasantries]</sup></font></span>]] 08:16, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::Erm, I fail to see how it doesn't. Either people didn't see anything, but say that they do. Then they are lying. The second possibility is that they genuinely believe that they saw something that doesn't exist, so therefore they were hallucinating, a common sign of a number of mental illnesses. What other options are there? [[User:Fgf10|Fgf10]] ([[User talk:Fgf10|talk]]) 08:55, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::[[Optical illusion]]. Or maybe they saw something that is beyond their experience so they give it a name that is wrong. Most UFOs fall into this category. --[[User:TammyMoet|TammyMoet]] ([[User talk:TammyMoet|talk]]) 09:43, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::::If they believe what they saw was a genuine mythical being, they are mentally ill, as no such thing exists. And yes, I do classify people who genuinely believe in religion as mentally ill. [[User:Fgf10|Fgf10]] ([[User talk:Fgf10|talk]]) 11:10, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::::: Then your mind is closed to any other possibilities. Get back to us when and if you become more open to the possibility that there are possibilities you have not yet imagined. -- [[User:JackofOz|<font face="Papyrus">Jack of Oz</font>]] [[User talk:JackofOz#top|<span style="font-size:85%"><font face="Verdana" ><sup>[pleasantries]</sup></font></span>]] 11:28, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::::::You're kidding me, right? [[Poe's law]] strikes again. This is the reference desk. Where we deal in facts, not fairy tales. I'm a research scientist, I deal in reality, so should you. Calling someone who doesn't believe in fiction closed-minded in rather hilarious. 12:35, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::::::: And labelling as "mentally ill" or "a liar" anyone who believes things that you think don't exist - what is that? The spirit of intellectual enquiry? Get real. -- [[User:JackofOz|<font face="Papyrus">Jack of Oz</font>]] [[User talk:JackofOz#top|<span style="font-size:85%"><font face="Verdana" ><sup>[pleasantries]</sup></font></span>]] 13:02, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::::::::That is the spirit of reality. I don't 'think' mythical/religious things don't exist, I know. And before you go, 'oh that's just another belief', no, I have the laws of physics on my side. People who believe things that are demonstrably false and incompatible with reality are at best delusional. Now, if you are one of them, I do feel sorry for you, and I would advice you seek help. We can't go on treating religiosity as something normal, this is 2015, not 1615. It is indeed the spirit of intellectual enquiry that moved us out of the dark days when religion dictated life, and we are still ongoing in the struggle to rid modern society of the remnants of those barbaric practices. One day we'll get there! [[User:Fgf10|Fgf10]] ([[User talk:Fgf10|talk]]) 14:25, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::::::::The reality is that you ''don't'' know. ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 15:09, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Nor are dreams and religiosity [[mental illness]]. Such fallacious [[wp:OR]] belongs elsewhere. -[[User:Modocc|Modocc]] ([[User talk:Modocc|talk]]) 15:19, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Atheists often make statements like that. It's part of the mantra of the "religious" aspect of atheism. ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 16:48, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::Seriously, we're actually having this argument on a factual site? We're actually supposed to pretend religion is normal? Once again, the reality is that I'm right, and I know. Religion is incompatible with the laws of physics, therefore it doesn't exist. How hard can it be? I know years of indoctrination are hard to shed, and that when you're living in a state that is basically a fundamentalist theocratical state, like the US, it may be hard to express rational thought, but this is reality. I am genuinely amazed to see so many people that otherwise post many sensible things actually defend religion. The mind baffles! [[User:Fgf10|Fgf10]] ([[User talk:Fgf10|talk]]) 01:21, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::: I've never mentioned religion. The OP asked whether such a thing as a [[succubus]] exists. No religion claims succubi exist, as far as I know. You said "As for the OP, those people are either lying or mentally ill". That's what I've taken exception to. You can prove that something exists, by giving evidence of it. But how can you prove that something does not exist? And be so hard-line about it? The record of science is a long litany of things that were said, categorically, just like you're doing now, not to exist, only for their existence to be later proven. I'm not saying I believe in succubi, but neither do I dismiss multiple claims over many centuries as manifestations of mental illness or as lies. I maintain an open mind. I recommend it. -- [[User:JackofOz|<font face="Papyrus">Jack of Oz</font>]] [[User talk:JackofOz#top|<span style="font-size:85%"><font face="Verdana" ><sup>[pleasantries]</sup></font></span>]] 01:34, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::::More importantly, for me anyway, his claim they are "...either lying or mentally ill..." is still a [[false dilemma]] given that succubi don't exist, since it is actually quite normal for people to believe in things that happen to ''not be true'', which is why [[scientific realism | scientific progress]] can be sloth-en. -[[User:Modocc|Modocc]] ([[User talk:Modocc|talk]]) 02:50, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
:Not quite answering the OP's question about purposefully summoning, but related - there is such a thing as [[Sleep paralysis]], which is interpreted in many cultures around the world as a [[Succubus]], as in many cases, it feels like someone or something is lying on top of you, and in other cases it feels like there is someone or something in the room (and, indeed, sometimes multiple entities). I started to get it when I was 16 (during exam time), then it stopped for a few years until I moved to Japan, and then I was getting it regularly. I knew it was just my body not 'waking up yet' even though my brain had, and therefore had no reason to think there were 'entities' in the room. It's a very unpleasant feeling, but I didn't seek medical help for it, because I knew what it was and it didn't interfere with my life. We talked about this a few weeks ago on here, and as one person noted (something which I already knew), it is claimed that it is very common in Japan. Bizarrely, that is where I got it most - probably just a coincidence, but there you go. <span style="text-shadow:#BBBBBB 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml"><font face="MV Boli" color="blue">[[User:KageTora|KägeTorä - (<sup>影</sup><sub>虎</sub>)]] ([[User talk:KageTora|もしもし！]])</font></span> 13:20, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

::Yes, this is not a delusion in the sense of being the result of a mental illness, but it is a hallucination often associated with [[night terror]]s and [[hypnagogia]]. For a surprisingly specific folkloric take on it, see ''[http://www.upenn.edu/pennpress/book/918.html The Terror That Comes in the Night]'', which discusses the common succubus manifestation known as the Old Hag. From reading accounts and talking with people who have experienced it, these "visitors" combine the intensity of dreams with the realism of waking life, resulting in experiences that are very hard to shake. [[User:Matt Deres|Matt Deres]] ([[User talk:Matt Deres|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

*Two things. What really disturbs me is people who are ''so'' concerned about what others believe, to the point of making windows in mens' souls. I don't care if that's Puritanism, Climate Alarmism, or Islamism, Political Correctness, or Radical Atheism.

:I am an atheist. So what!? I don't think or worry about God or Santa Claus or think or worry about the beliefs of others, unless they start shouting things about "Death to the Indifidels!" or advocating [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATTknP8t7JU the murder of climate "denialists]". See also [http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=tehy+should+kill+climate+deniars&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 these recent publications], in case you think the British public terror announcement was a joke.</br>
:That being said, according to an article several years back, [http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=sleep+paralysis+south+east+asia&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 night terrors and ''associate deaths''] are not uncommon in South East Asian men. That could easily stoke fears of demons among the less informed. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 03:30, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

:With regards to intentionally summoning "...a demon/succubus for sex..." see [[Lucid dream]]. --[[User:Modocc|Modocc]] ([[User talk:Modocc|talk]]) 04:40, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
::In a lucid dream, we can definitely imagine screwing a demon, but can't ask for the paralysis that makes it feel like the demon's screwing us. That's one of ([http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2579970/ or some of]) the many separate, involuntary mechanisms we leave to the part of the brain we [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21408008 typically] don't believe is "us".
::Shamans can rock the voluntary [[trance]], but like unicorns, the usefulness of these in perceiving other worlds is [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2656951 without any value for empirical research.] Also quite [http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/11/30/unicorns-existence-proven-says-north-korea/ like unicorns], we [[Evidence of absence|can't say]] fakirs absolutely ''haven't'' gotten real, either. [[User:InedibleHulk|InedibleHulk]] [[User_Talk:InedibleHulk|(talk)]] 16:23, [[April 12]], [[2015]] (UTC)
::<small>Speaking of mixed messages, false conclusions and seeing hidden worlds, [http://io9.com/5964879/no-the-north-korean-government-did-not-claim-it-found-evidence-of-unicorns nevermind the unicorn.] [[User:InedibleHulk|InedibleHulk]] [[User_Talk:InedibleHulk|(talk)]] 17:26, [[April 12]], [[2015]] (UTC)</small>

= April 11 =

== A Car Designer from Egypt !! ==

Hi

This is Engineer Amr Abdo, from Cairo-Egypt. I am almost 64 Years old. In my childhood ( about 10 Years Old), i was crazy about Car Styling. Since my late Mother was an Oil Painter, she encouraged me so much at that age. At that early stage I decided to be a car Designer.

when I grew up and finished the secondary school, Unfortunately, I couldn't find an institute or university to study Car styling in my Country. In the same time, my father wasn't a wealthy man to send me study in Europe or the United states. The only choice to me was to study automotive Engineer where i graduated in 1974, full of energy at that time, hoping to start designing the 1st Egyptian Car.

I wanted to tell stages of my life with car designing until my best achievement in 2003 when i was selected as the 2nd rank worldwide designer in the 2nd International design contest by Peugeot.

My story is not a success story but instead, it's a frustrated story !!

It's an advice to the new generations of car designers, not to dream too much in a country where car design is completely neglected because simply, there is a long lasting belief ( more than 60 years ) to keep car manufacturing in Egypt to stop at the assembly level. Nothing beyond !!

Of course, I hope, after the revolution, the situation changed but it always need time.

I need your help to guide me where to put my story and samples of my designs shown in my private website: www.amrabdo.com

I'll appreciate very much your reply to me.

Thanks a lot, my best regards.

'''Amr Abdo''' <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Amrabdo51|Amrabdo51]] ([[User talk:Amrabdo51|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Amrabdo51|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> '''P<small>LEASE</small>''' sign you posts by adding <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> at the end.

:Wikipedia isn't the right place. Maybe [[Wikibooks]] ? You would write a book there (perhaps a short one, if that's what you want), and everyone on the Internet could read it for free. One downside is that others could edit your book, too. That might be good if they fix typos and such, but you probably don't want them changing the content. [[User:StuRat|StuRat]] ([[User talk:StuRat|talk]]) 01:00, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

== British telephone codes ==

Can anyone tell me the year in which the GPO changed names of telephone numbers to numerals, in other words for instance, "Whitehall" to "01"?[[Special:Contributions/85.211.133.34|85.211.133.34]] ([[User talk:85.211.133.34|talk]]) 10:42, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

:According to our article [[all-figure dialling]], "All-figure dialling was a telephone numbering plan introduced in the United Kingdom starting in 1966 that replaced the traditional system of using initial letters of telephone exchange names as the first part of a telephone number". [[User:Mikenorton|Mikenorton]] ([[User talk:Mikenorton|talk]]) 12:28, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
::The "01" number used for London was introduced at that time, but the three letter area codes had been introduced decades earlier. So (in your example) for Whitehall 1212 (the famous number for [[Scotland Yard]]) you dialled WHI 1212 using the letters on the dial; after 1966 you still dialled the same except that you were using the numbers rather than the letters on the dial, so 944 1212 was actually the same as WHI 1212. [http://www.rhaworth.myby.co.uk/phreak/tenp_uk.htm] You only had to dial "01" if you were dialling from outside of the London area (apologies if you knew all that already!). [[User:Alansplodge|Alansplodge]] ([[User talk:Alansplodge|talk]]) 14:01, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
:::This has always confused/bemused/bewildered me. Our local dialing code is 0151 (now, anyway - used to be 051), and looking at our landline phone now, the 0 doesn't have a letter, nor does the 1. The 5 has 'JKL'. However, if I press it three times, it just get three fives. 015551 is not a dialing code, to the best of my knowledge. <span style="text-shadow:#BBBBBB 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml"><font face="MV Boli" color="blue">[[User:KageTora|KägeTorä - (<sup>影</sup><sub>虎</sub>)]] ([[User talk:KageTora|もしもし！]])</font></span> 14:24, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
::::I hope you're joking! [[User:Jpgordon|--jpgordon]]<sup><small>[[User talk:Jpgordon|::==( o )]]</small></sup> 15:12, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
::::: ;¬ ) --[[User:Aspro|Aspro]] ([[User talk:Aspro|talk]]) 15:27, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::I'm actually not. I was born in 1972, and could never understand why the the keys (or dials, with the old phones) had letters on them. It's different when texting with a phone which has touch-keys, but with today's touchscreen smartphones, texting and dialing are unrelated. <span style="text-shadow:#BBBBBB 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml"><font face="MV Boli" color="blue">[[User:KageTora|KägeTorä - (<sup>影</sup><sub>虎</sub>)]] ([[User talk:KageTora|もしもし！]])</font></span> 15:45, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::::Non-mobile-phones never did use the convention of repeating a digit to get a different letter, because non-mobile-phones never used the letters for anything other than a mnemonic for the exchange (the thinking being, I guess, that people could remember "SOuth" beter than "76".) [[User:Jpgordon|--jpgordon]]<sup><small>[[User talk:Jpgordon|::==( o )]]</small></sup> 19:07, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::::::Well the exchanges didn't have number codes originally, people just asked for the exchange by name. It was only when [[Subscriber trunk dialling|STD]] came along that each exchange had to be given a number that people could dial, hence the letter codes. [[User:Dbfirs|''<font face="verdana"><font color="blue">D</font><font color="#00ccff">b</font><font color="#44ffcc">f</font><font color="66ff66">i</font><font color="44ee44">r</font><font color="44aa44">s</font></font>'']] 19:26, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::::The reason that dials had letters on them was because telephone exchanges had names - Example :'''VIK'''ing [http://www.rhaworth.myby.co.uk/phreak/tenp_01.htm] became 845...'''V(8)-I(4)-K(5)'''. This caused problems with the film an TV people though. Instead of of actors asking for factious exchanges, the all number codes required the GPO to come up with factious area codes.--[[User:Aspro|Aspro]] ([[User talk:Aspro|talk]]) 16:15, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

:::::::I believe it would have been the numbers after the 051 for example anfield was ANF or 263 on a rotary dial it then became 051 263 xxxx and then later 0151 263 xxxx. [[User:MilborneOne|MilborneOne]] ([[User talk:MilborneOne|talk]]) 15:58, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::::::Agreed. In 1966, three letters and four numbers became seven numbers. Extra area codes were added as prefixes, which didn't exist previously. [[User:Alansplodge|Alansplodge]] ([[User talk:Alansplodge|talk]]) 16:15, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

::::Just to make the answer to KageTora's question explicit, the "5" is "L" for '''L'''iverpool, the "0" is the [[trunk prefix]] for [[Subscriber Trunk Dialling]], and the "1" is added on to indicate a city with its own director exchange (in 1959). Compare "021" ('''B'''irmingham), "031" ('''E'''dinburgh), "041" ('''G'''lasgow), "061" ('''M'''anchester). [[User:Tevildo|Tevildo]] ([[User talk:Tevildo|talk]]) 16:31, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::Well, I do see that 489 does work, for the very local area of my village - HUY - (after the 0151), but I couldn't understand why people would need this. Were pencils and paper notebooks not invented before 1966? Just write the number down! You'll need to remember the final four digits ''anyway''. Just write the whole lot down in your phone book. :) <span style="text-shadow:#BBBBBB 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml"><font face="MV Boli" color="blue">[[User:KageTora|KägeTorä - (<sup>影</sup><sub>虎</sub>)]] ([[User talk:KageTora|もしもし！]])</font></span> 19:36, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::Before Subscriber Trunk Dialling, people would just ask the operator for "Huyton 1234", and they would know the four digits from memory. If they were dialling from the Huyton exchange, they would just dial the 1234. People often didn't need to write down numbers for people they rang regularly (I still don't). The three-letter code for each area made it easy for these people to dial numbers that they knew from memory without having to look up codes. You can check other codes such as HUN for Hunts cross, SEF for Sefton Park, LAR for Lark Lane, CHI for Childwall, CEN for Central, ALL for Allerton, GRE for Great Crosby etc. [[User:Dbfirs|''<font face="verdana"><font color="blue">D</font><font color="#00ccff">b</font><font color="#44ffcc">f</font><font color="66ff66">i</font><font color="44ee44">r</font><font color="44aa44">s</font></font>'']] 19:51, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::::<small>Grr, they should have chosen 833 for 'TDF', which is an abbreviation in our own rhyming slang for our local area.... :) </small> <span style="text-shadow:#BBBBBB 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml"><font face="MV Boli" color="blue">[[User:KageTora|KägeTorä - (<sup>影</sup><sub>虎</sub>)]] ([[User talk:KageTora|もしもし！]])</font></span> 20:45, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

:As nobody else has mentioned it, the article [[Subscriber trunk dialling]] is relevant here. --[[User:TammyMoet|TammyMoet]] ([[User talk:TammyMoet|talk]]) 07:02, 12 April 2015 (UTC)


=== Distracting question moved to the bottom (moved by distractor) ===
::::::::Are there [[Phoneword|phonewords aka "vanity numbers"]] in the United Kingdom? (Neither that article nor the one on [[toll-free telephone number]] give any UK examples). ---[[User:Sluzzelin|Sluzzelin]] [[User talk:Sluzzelin|<small>talk</small>]] 16:08, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::::::I don't think so. [[User:Alansplodge|Alansplodge]] ([[User talk:Alansplodge|talk]]) 16:18, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::::::Sluzzelin needs to ask that as a new question. In the UK the nearest equivalent is [[Personal numbering]]--[[User:Aspro|Aspro]] ([[User talk:Aspro|talk]]) 16:45, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::::::::Done, and thank you :-) ---[[User:Sluzzelin|Sluzzelin]] [[User talk:Sluzzelin|<small>talk</small>]] 17:19, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

It’s common when setting up a numerical series to arrange terms alphabetically before transformation. For example, people wonder why the London postal district numbers are arranged so haphazardly. The answer is that the district office was given the suffix 1 and then the sub – districts, arranged alphabetically, followed. Thus Brixton became SW2 and Chelsea became SW3 and so on. (I think that’s right, it’s a Sunday night and I don’t have access to a street atlas).
There’s an army barracks at Caterham and soldiers could never figure out why to call people in that area you had to dial the number of a form which the MPs used when booking insubordinates. The old alphanumeric STD code was '''OCA''' followed by a number representing however far down the list of towns beginning with "CA" Caterham was. Then the letters on the dial became the corresponding numbers and that’s what happened.
As for vanity numbers, I don’t think we do that here – we have vanity numberplates instead. They started off with two letters and a number, and the number of letters has grown and people inventively combine them with numbers to make words – for example a 5 can stand in for an S. There are letter combinations which the licensing authorities never put into circulation – for example FOC (a mild version of something else) and other obvious ones like GOD.
Over here the authorities treat the motorists as a cash cow – for example ubiquitous cameras (we are the most spied on country in the world). One London borough photographs the numberplates of every vehicle as it enters and leaves and has a battery of closed circuit cameras (monitored from the municipal offices) watching the inhabitants’ every move. The cameras link to a database of registration numbers which the police use to catch criminals (their cars are fitted with this "Automatic Number Plate Recognition" (ANPR) equipment) and which the boroughs and Transport for London use to wallop drivers for the slightest infringement. Stray six inches into a bus lane, go 5 m.p.h. over the speed limit or tarry in your parking space 60 seconds beyond the time you’ve paid for and you’ll get booked. The central London congestion charge (every motorist who drives into the centre has to pay for the privilege) is policed using this system.
The Government auctions off these "vanity numbers" having previously made it illegal for motorists to keep their good ones (like A1) when the cars they are attached to are scrapped. I believe the best ones can go for half a million pounds. In my earlier comment, "put" is a past tense, not a present. One driver who provides a service linked to one of the city’s street markets has "SEX 1", while the richest fruit and veg stallholder parks up with "VEG 1" and "VEG 2" on his vans. He, incidentally, was the one who went to the House of Lords and the European Court of Human Rights when the authorities tried to get rid of the imperial weights and measures ([[Metric martyrs]] if you’re interested).
While I’m here, I see the Language desk is indefinitely protected. Please. We don’t do permanent semi – protection. The idea is that the general public can come to these desks for advice. [[Special:Contributions/87.81.147.76|87.81.147.76]] ([[User talk:87.81.147.76|talk]]) 17:43, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

== Thanksgiving in Germany after the War ==

At the end of WWII, my father was a baker's apprentice in [[Alsfeld]], Germany. Before [[Thanksgiving]], Americans pulled up in a truck and asked "You have a big oven?" - "Yes" - "Can you prepare this truckload of turkeys for us?". So they did. When the Americans came to pick up the turkeys, they said "We don't eat any gravy", and all the people of the bakery and all their friends lived for weeks on turkey gravy. I wonder why they might not have wanted the gravy, and whether there may be any veterans whom I could ask about this. &mdash; [[User:SebastianHelm|Sebastian]] 22:27, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

:I would guess that they already had prepared (canned) gravy and didn't need the additional drippings from cooking the turkeys. Presumably they didn't require the big ovens to cook the prepared gravy, so did that part on their own. [[User:StuRat|StuRat]] ([[User talk:StuRat|talk]]) 23:44, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

::There'd be a minor civil war if the gravy were discarded at my house. But one can see all sorts of reason, like that mentioned above, or that they'd be eating on the go and didn't want a mess. But it's not the normal practice, especially since Turkey tends to be so dry. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 00:26, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

:::Only if you don't know what you are doing. My turkey is never dry. I also make a damn fine gravy, but at my house we use it because it tastes good on the potatoes. My turkey can stand on it's own. --[[User:Jayron32|<span style="color:#009">Jayron</span>]][[User talk:Jayron32|<b style="color:#090">''32''</b>]] 03:46, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

::::<small>If your turkey can still stand on it's own, I'm afraid you've severely undercooked it. :-) [[User:StuRat|StuRat]] ([[User talk:StuRat|talk]]) 04:27, 12 April 2015 (UTC) </small>
:::::<small>Careful there Stu and control yourself.... otherwise I might just add “''If your turkey can still stand on it's own, I'm afraid you've severely undercooked it.''” to Wikiquotes. Such a turkey, would indeed be, a very rare bird. 凸(¬‿¬)凸..--[[User:Aspro|Aspro]] ([[User talk:Aspro|talk]]) 13:19, 12 April 2015 (UTC)</small>
:: Stu, canned gravy? In Germany at the end of WW2? Really? -- [[User:JackofOz|<font face="Papyrus">Jack of Oz</font>]] [[User talk:JackofOz#top|<span style="font-size:85%"><font face="Verdana" ><sup>[pleasantries]</sup></font></span>]] 05:06, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
::: <small>The US armed forces used [[United States military ration#"Iron Ration" (1907–1922)|sealed tin packets]] in 1907. &mdash; [[User:SebastianHelm|Sebastian]] 05:25, 12 April 2015 (UTC)</small>

:::Yes, as part of US army supplies. (I can see why they might have powdered gravy where weight was important, such as field rations, but the danger of mixing in questionable water would make canned gravy safer, for purchase at the local [[Post exchange|PX]], I should think.) [[User:StuRat|StuRat]] ([[User talk:StuRat|talk]]) 05:25, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

::::In the early 1800s [[Nicolas Appert]], the "father of canning" sent his "canned" (he was using bottles) [http://www.cancentral.com/content/nicolas-appert-father-canning gravy with Napoleon] for a few months. So there is no reason that the US Army couldn't have had canned gravy. I always thought that [[:File:Whole chicken in a can.jpg|this]] didn't look appealing but I can't imagine how a canned sheep must be. [[User:CambridgeBayWeather|CambridgeBayWeather]], [[User talk:CambridgeBayWeather|Uqaqtuq (talk)]], [[Special:Contributions/CambridgeBayWeather|Sunasuttuq]] 11:47, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::For those Britons who doubt that such a thing could exist, [http://www.srisalesinc.com/heinz_9.jpg behold!]. [[User:Alansplodge|Alansplodge]] ([[User talk:Alansplodge|talk]]) 16:25, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

:::::: OK, it exists (to my horror). But Stu's theory still doesn't ring true for me. They rejected delicious freshly-made traditional German gravy, in favour of canned gravy of dubious provenance? <s>Would even Americans sink so low? </s> Really? -- [[User:JackofOz|<font face="Papyrus">Jack of Oz</font>]] [[User talk:JackofOz#top|<span style="font-size:85%"><font face="Verdana" ><sup>[pleasantries]</sup></font></span>]] 20:25, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

:::::::That's hardly fair, Jack, given there's no evidence either way, why not assume the Americans weren't being generous? As the OP said they lived off that gravy for a few week. If you want to look at sinking so low, consider the British and French treatment of Germany after WWII with crippling reparations demanded when Germany had agreed to a ceasefire as an equal. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 20:43, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

== Large cities ==

I'm having a brain fart. There's a term for a city that contains half or more of region/province/country's population. What the heck is it? It's apparently not global city, megacity, etc. [[User:Matt Deres|Matt Deres]] ([[User talk:Matt Deres|talk]]) 23:59, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
:A quick search turns up [[Primate city]] as a likely candidate. --[[User:Jayron32|<span style="color:#009">Jayron</span>]][[User talk:Jayron32|<b style="color:#090">''32''</b>]] 00:02, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
::Ah, yes, that's the term I was looking for! Thank you. [[User:Matt Deres|Matt Deres]] ([[User talk:Matt Deres|talk]]) 00:21, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
::<small>Isn't that just on ''[[The Planet of the Apes]]''? [[User:Clarityfiend|Clarityfiend]] ([[User talk:Clarityfiend|talk]]) 05:53, 12 April 2015 (UTC)</small>
:Also, in the case of a city that contain most of a country's population, you have a [[city-state]]. There used to be many, like ancient Athens, but now there are only a few left, like [[Singapore]] and [[Monaco]]. [[User:StuRat|StuRat]] ([[User talk:StuRat|talk]]) 04:31, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

= April 12 =

== Road kill animals ==

How long will it take before animals adapt their behaviour to avoid getting caught under my Cadillac. Along the road I see so many dead critters, foxes, badgers, game birds, bunnies.

You would have thought they would have learnt by now, purely by how many of them are piled up on the curb. Foxes seem to leave a particularly dire mess for some reason. One time I saw a small amount of fur, and a very visible ear still protruding up from the road and nothing much else. It disturbs me to this day.

== Winning the lottery ==

In the UK, what is statistically more likely to give you a decent prize? Scratch cards of the national lottery. Honestly, winning £5000 would be just fine. I'd rather play those scratch cards than have a 1-100000000000 of winning a million on the national lottery.

Revision as of 20:51, 12 April 2015

Does eating an apple a day really reduce the number of visits people to the doctor?

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