| The following text is an archived discussion from the March 16, 2007 meeting on IRC. Do not modify them. Subsequent comments should be made on IRC. No further edits should be made.
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(21:35:07) rschen7754: welcome all
(21:35:22) Scott5114: thank you
(21:35:38) Master_son: thanx
(21:36:07) rschen7754: so... i suppose we're all here>?
(21:36:13) vishwin60: maybe
(21:36:18) Master_son: I would assume so
(21:36:19) TwinsMetsFan: i believe so
(21:36:31) vishwin60: but just expect some more people to drop as we go along
(21:36:37) vishwin60: well, drop in
(21:36:41) rschen7754: if you're not here say something
(21:36:42) rschen7754: lol
(21:36:48) Master_son: LMAO
(21:36:49) TwinsMetsFan: lmao
(21:36:52) Master_son: I'm not here!
(21:36:55) Master_son: ;)
(21:37:00) vishwin60: anyway, first thing's first
(21:37:09) vishwin60: dab page NCs
(21:37:11) rschen7754: note the rules in the topic
(21:37:14) rschen7754: and here we go
(21:37:27) Q22 entered the room.
(21:37:46) TwinsMetsFan: for the dab page, i see no harm in the current NC
(21:37:58) vishwin60: me neither
(21:38:08) Scott5114: originally, they were simply named "Route x"
(21:38:12) Q22 is now known as Polaron
(21:38:19) Master_son: The only wonder I have is when you say "List of..." is it a dab or a list?
(21:38:19) rschen7754: welcome
(21:38:30) TwinsMetsFan: that's half the battle
(21:38:40) TwinsMetsFan: but Route X doesn't work for obvious reasons
(21:38:44) TwinsMetsFan: same with Highway X
(21:38:45) vishwin60: exactly
(21:38:53) Scott5114: well, it led to the logical "'''Route 0''' can refer to:" syntax of a dab page
(21:38:54) rschen7754: imho i think the current convention is good
(21:39:01) vishwin60: for Oklahoma and some other states such as colorado, it's SH x
(21:39:08) Scott5114: no problem with the current convention here either
(21:39:09) rschen7754: but considering that not all states use "Route" it doesnt work
(21:39:20) Master_son: true
(21:39:23) vishwin60: California, Indiana, and Washington use SR x or State Route x
(21:39:24) TwinsMetsFan: and the same argument applies for Highway
(21:39:28) vishwin60: or even State Road x
(21:39:30) Master_son: Wisconsin uses Highway
(21:39:37) Master_son: MN uses Trunk Highway, etc
(21:39:46) vishwin60: so the basic point is, every state is different
(21:39:53) rschen7754: so we need something... generic
(21:39:53) TwinsMetsFan: exactly, it's so scattered locally that the only option is one that uses neither
(21:39:54) vishwin60: that's especially MI and KS
(21:40:00) Master_son: keep in mind it also includes outside US as well
(21:40:03) vishwin60: they use M-x and K-x
(21:40:07) vishwin60: oh yeah, right!
(21:40:10) rschen7754: true
(21:40:12) rschen7754: good point
(21:40:14) TwinsMetsFan: Master son: good point
(21:40:18) rschen7754: lol
(21:40:25) rschen7754: mexico does use highway
(21:40:32) rschen7754: well carreterra to be specific
(21:40:34) Master_son: so does Canada
(21:40:44) TwinsMetsFan: i think the international scheme gives more fuel to the current NC fire
(21:40:44) Master_son: Ontario at least
(21:40:50) Master_son: yeah
(21:40:52) rschen7754: correct
(21:40:56) Scott5114: one silly option would be to merge the pages with "6 (disambiguation)" :P
(21:40:58) rschen7754: i mean we want to go international eventualluy
(21:41:01) rschen7754: yeah
(21:41:07) vishwin60: it already is
(21:41:11) Master_son: ROFL
(21:41:26) vishwin60: 1 and 888 sure are, for now
(21:41:32) TwinsMetsFan: yeah, international is a good topic
(21:41:47) TwinsMetsFan: b/c so much of the road stuff is centered on US right now
(21:41:51) rschen7754: yes
(21:41:54) rschen7754: canada is a mess
(21:41:54) Master_son: agreed
(21:42:00) rschen7754: but anyway...
(21:42:06) vishwin60: since lots of the international stuff is inactive
(21:42:20) vishwin60: *that* pointing a finger to WP:HWY
(21:42:51) Master_son: Don't forget the ones in Antartica ;)
(21:42:57) vishwin60: lol
(21:42:59) TwinsMetsFan: lol
(21:42:59) Scott5114: We need to find out who's editing the British pages
(21:43:04) Scott5114: they're doing a good job
(21:43:08) rschen7754: !
(21:43:12) TwinsMetsFan: haven't seen any of those
(21:43:18) ***vishwin60 looks
(21:43:23) ***Master_son looks
(21:43:23) Scott5114: [[M6 motorway]]
(21:43:42) Scott5114: that's the motorway convention, A and B roads are [[A1 road]] I believe
(21:43:53) TwinsMetsFan: like the article, hate the infobox
(21:44:06) TwinsMetsFan: looks too much like routeboxny
(21:44:20) Scott5114: they're also still using pngs for the...um...shield
(21:44:36) vishwin60: yeah, the infobox could be improved
(21:44:43) TwinsMetsFan: wow, PNGs...
(21:44:48) Master_son: They're prolly too far into it to worry about it for now. but yeah - not up to specs
(21:45:09) Scott5114: then again, USRD specs don't apply to Britain
(21:45:14) vishwin60: found one user that works on motorways in England: User:Regan123
(21:45:17) TwinsMetsFan: they have nothing to fear until HWY gets a USRD-like revamp
(21:45:18) Master_son: exactly
(21:45:31) vishwin60: which I am taking into consideration
(21:45:35) Scott5114: what if the British editors want no part of it?
(21:45:43) Master_son: hmm
(21:45:46) TwinsMetsFan: we use the CACR approach
(21:45:55) Scott5114: we can't rightly say "well hello chap you're doing things the American way now"
(21:46:17) TwinsMetsFan: well, we have to incorporate elements from the existing articles
(21:46:19) Master_son: no - and nice accent
(21:46:20) rschen7754: we are getting a little off topic
(21:46:31) vishwin60: hmm, by looking at talk pages, there seemingly is no WikiProject devoted to England roads
(21:46:38) TwinsMetsFan: true, but this is good
(21:46:41) Master_son: stay on [topic]
(21:46:41) rschen7754: there isnt iirc
(21:46:58) Polaron: we have to be careful about imposing rules on groups of articles unless you can get the regular editors of those articles on board
(21:47:10) Master_son: I agree with Polaron
(21:47:19) TwinsMetsFan: yeah, that's why we have to be open to the existing structure
(21:47:22) TwinsMetsFan: at least initially
(21:47:24) rschen7754: okay let's change the topic to this then return to disambig
(21:48:02) ***Master_son drinks tea
(21:48:05) TwinsMetsFan: but maybe there should be a WP:Europe Roads first?
(21:48:23) rschen7754: ya
(21:48:30) rschen7754: but do we have enough users?
(21:48:36) TwinsMetsFan: i doubt it
(21:48:47) Master_son: maybe not - we can hardly hold USRD right now :|
(21:48:50) TwinsMetsFan: file that one under "pipe dream" for right now
(21:49:01) Master_son: you mean "pipe trick?"
(21:49:04) Master_son: j/k
(21:49:12) Polaron: you can try putting something up at the WikiProject Council to gauge interest
(21:49:39) rschen7754: imho
(21:49:51) rschen7754: we shouldnt start any more highways projects right now
(21:50:02) TwinsMetsFan: agreed 100%
(21:50:03) Master_son: I tend to agree - in and outside US
(21:50:10) rschen7754: we've got 1/3 to 1/2 of the ones we have already inactive
(21:50:18) TwinsMetsFan: and no new articles, preferably
(21:50:32) Master_son: there's enough projects out there and nothing being done. Lets work what we have right now.
(21:50:34) TwinsMetsFan: not when most of the existing 6000 are bad
(21:50:36) Polaron: has anyone considered some sort of temporary merging of projects by region
(21:50:40) Scott5114: we might want to look at UK closely to see if they have any ideas we'd like to copy
(21:50:55) TwinsMetsFan: we have considering making projects task forces temporarily
(21:50:58) Polaron: for example RI and MA are very similar and both inactive that they might be better managed as one project
(21:50:59) TwinsMetsFan: considered*
(21:51:06) vishwin60: nah
(21:51:24) rschen7754: do we want to bring up the proposal now?
(21:51:37) TwinsMetsFan: it seems right
(21:51:49) rschen7754: ok
(21:51:55) rschen7754: go ahead
(21:52:16) TwinsMetsFan: ok
(21:52:50) TwinsMetsFan: as part of the USRD restructuring today, a new paragraph was added: However, it is not possible to be doing 50 WikiProjects at this time. Therefore, this project will coordinate the starting of new WikiProjects for states without one and will determine the efficiency of each existing subproject. Contributors may weigh in on which state should be started next and which projects are least efficient/active on WT:USRD/SUB.
(21:53:07) TwinsMetsFan: the efficiency refers to how much is being produced by a WikiProject
(21:53:12) TwinsMetsFan: and how active it is
(21:53:21) TwinsMetsFan: [[WP:USRD/SUB]] will be redesigned
(21:53:29) TwinsMetsFan: and will have WP evaluation
(21:53:30) Polaron: an active project might take on inactive projects for states adjacent to it or something until those projects can get enough regular editors
(21:53:37) Master_son: I've often worried that simply adding projects would put us into this - so I agree
(21:53:50) TwinsMetsFan: if a project is determined to be inactive, it will become a task force of USRD
(21:54:08) TwinsMetsFan: with possibility for repromotion when conditions improve
(21:54:17) vishwin60: sounds good
(21:54:21) Master_son: agree with that - for the purposes of improving existing articles and watching over them
(21:54:51) TwinsMetsFan: right
(21:55:02) rschen7754: correc
(21:55:03) rschen7754: t
(21:55:11) Scott5114: thing is, how will this improve articles? if you know nothing about the, say, Ohio road system you're unlikely to go and start writing Ohio articles
(21:55:13) rschen7754: imho we dont want to delete the project then it's more work to fix
(21:55:23) Master_son: this is true
(21:55:41) rschen7754: yeah
(21:55:43) TwinsMetsFan: what it does is that it takes the project off the board, so to speak
(21:55:56) rschen7754: and so we can conserve resources
(21:56:01) rschen7754: and motivate people to come and fix it
(21:56:07) Polaron: editors usually know something about the roads in adjacent states
(21:56:07) rschen7754: who are from that state
(21:56:08) TwinsMetsFan: it hinders the want to make new articles
(21:56:09) Scott5114: that's why I couldn't do anything really with last week's AID (the NY one) -- I'd only heard of the town of Corning, NY, not any of the other highways or town named in it
(21:56:24) Scott5114: well, yes, adjacent
(21:56:24) Master_son: Why I have been working with IA and MN, and some of IL
(21:56:29) rschen7754: but also one can fix the infobox for example even if tehy have never been there
(21:56:34) TwinsMetsFan: well, that was my bad, i should've filled out the to-do template
(21:57:06) Master_son: hehe
(21:57:20) TwinsMetsFan: but yes, the real value of the task force proposal is a "humilation" value
(21:57:30) TwinsMetsFan: i hate to put it that way, but that's what it is
(21:57:30) Master_son: ooook
(21:57:35) Scott5114: the shame in getting your project 'demoted'
(21:57:39) TwinsMetsFan: yes
(21:57:40) Master_son: yah
(21:57:43) rschen7754: also USRD thus gets more authority to make decisions
(21:57:57) rschen7754: to fix the project
(21:57:58) TwinsMetsFan: and a greater coordination of efforts
(21:58:09) rschen7754: KY had three routeboxes for a period of time
(21:58:10) Scott5114: of course, if there isn't anyone there, nobody will care :P
(21:58:10) TwinsMetsFan: say, one week, you focus on writing article leads
(21:58:20) Master_son: which is one thing IMHO that is what USRD is there for - but not merely to rescue, but to assist
(21:58:22) rschen7754: we asked them to fix it but got no response
(21:58:34) TwinsMetsFan: KY still has 3 routeboxes :-\
(21:58:36) rschen7754: wouldn't it have been nice if we could have just gone in there and fixed the thing?
(21:58:38) rschen7754: oh dear
(21:58:45) Master_son: IL nd OK still have stray routeboxes
(21:58:50) TwinsMetsFan: the browsing is wrecked
(21:59:09) TwinsMetsFan: i mean, the KY state highway page is incomplete
(21:59:09) Scott5114: Infobox road makes my head hurt, that's why OK hasn't migrated yet :P
(21:59:16) rschen7754: yeah too many projects are a mess too
(21:59:16) TwinsMetsFan: makes it hard to determine browsing
(21:59:25) Master_son: what's wrong with Infobox road?
(21:59:33) rschen7754: at [[User:Rschen7754/USRoadsSub]] there is a list of projects taht need help
(21:59:46) Scott5114: It needs clear instructions on what pages to set up and what goes on them
(21:59:56) rschen7754: yes that is a weakness of the system
(22:00:08) TwinsMetsFan: for USRoadsSub, a lot of them still need to be filled out, and that's what everyone here can help with
(22:00:11) rschen7754: when you edit it please fix the instructions too
(22:00:34) Scott5114: I've sort of stumbled through the browse setup by copying KS's but haven't really done anything else
(22:00:48) TwinsMetsFan: the browse code is set for every state
(22:00:53) TwinsMetsFan: so that's fine
(22:01:13) TwinsMetsFan: problem is that 60% of states hasn't implemented the system
(22:01:22) TwinsMetsFan: and some like Texas have poor implementation
(22:01:27) Master_son: the browse code is standardised on the state's postal abbr so it should be usable
(22:01:31) Master_son: yeah - Texas
(22:01:37) Master_son: What's up with Texas?
(22:01:40) rschen7754: it's on my todo list
(22:01:44) Scott5114: it's a whole other country
(22:01:45) rschen7754: but i havent gotten around to it
(22:01:49) rschen7754: well not tx
(22:02:03) Master_son: big enough to be one
(22:02:10) TwinsMetsFan: the Republic of Texas groups Interstates, US routes and SH against INNA standards
(22:02:15) Scott5114: Texas has a whole lot of types
(22:02:29) rschen7754: yes
(22:02:37) rschen7754: and a nonstandard WP template
(22:02:40) Scott5114: IH, US, SH, FM, RM, PR, and RR
(22:02:43) Scott5114: maybe more
(22:02:52) Master_son: Loops, spurs, etc
(22:02:58) Scott5114: oh, those too
(22:03:00) Scott5114: beltways
(22:03:04) Scott5114: TxDOT has a list of them
(22:03:08) TwinsMetsFan: banners aren't included in the browse, though
(22:03:16) TwinsMetsFan: at least, they shouldn't be per INNA
(22:03:20) Master_son: I would think that the FM, RM, PR, RR, Loops Spurs would be secondary state highways - not included in the browse
(22:03:23) Master_son: like county routes
(22:03:35) rschen7754: i'd think so too?
(22:03:42) vishwin60: umm
(22:03:42) TwinsMetsFan: agreed
(22:03:51) vishwin60: leaning toward yes
(22:04:03) TwinsMetsFan: would it be drastic to say anything w/low importance would be excluded?
(22:04:07) Scott5114: according to "scholastic atlas of the united states" Texas has 294,833 total miles of state highway
(22:04:10) Master_son: but the fact is the texas ordering seems like I's, US's and SH's are independent of each otehr
(22:04:17) Master_son: other
(22:04:21) Scott5114: twice that of California
(22:04:24) TwinsMetsFan: right, that's the problem
(22:04:29) Master_son: hmm
(22:04:33) Scott5114: KS is capped at 100,000
(22:04:41) TwinsMetsFan: INNA explicitly states I then US then SH
(22:04:45) Scott5114: or maybe 10,000, can't remember
(22:04:50) TwinsMetsFan: not grouped
(22:04:59) rschen7754: IL is another nonstandard browser too
(22:05:02) Master_son: yeah
(22:05:07) TwinsMetsFan: that's b/c of their infobox
(22:05:13) TwinsMetsFan: and the poor coding
(22:05:21) Master_son: hasn't Rob taked about the conversions on IL yet?
(22:05:38) TwinsMetsFan: i've seen no discussion on it yet
(22:05:38) vishwin60: nah
(22:05:43) Master_son: figures
(22:05:43) Scott5114: OK uses the Infobox Road browsepart so it is orthodox (it was before that conversion too, though)
(22:06:10) TwinsMetsFan: i think we could convert the IL one since the font size is now the same
(22:06:22) TwinsMetsFan: no need to make a new one
(22:06:22) Master_son: It could be AWB'd
(22:06:41) TwinsMetsFan: just trash the old code, replace it with a call to infobox road
(22:06:52) Master_son: hmm
(22:06:54) TwinsMetsFan: much easier than going through and replacing each infobox
(22:07:09) vishwin60: yeah, I'll go do that
(22:07:16) Master_son: works for me
(22:07:25) rschen7754: ya
(22:07:27) Master_son: Speaking of infoboxes,
(22:07:30) TwinsMetsFan: only thing to watch out for is the direction field
(22:07:38) TwinsMetsFan: it joins east-west and such
(22:07:56) TwinsMetsFan: but infobox road has a field for that, so we're fine
(22:08:12) TwinsMetsFan: Master son, go ahead
(22:08:32) Master_son: what about the ones (like MN) who use standards far fetched
(22:08:41) Master_son: like with the sheilds, but no name
(22:08:48) Master_son: or cities delimieted with <br>
(22:08:53) Master_son: (cant type for crap)
(22:09:03) TwinsMetsFan: need to be altered
(22:09:09) Master_son: I figured as much
(22:09:22) Master_son: the city lists aren't anything AWB can't touch
(22:09:23) Scott5114: s/<br>/, /g and you're done
(22:09:30) Master_son: precicely
(22:09:34) Master_son: sp?
(22:09:40) rschen7754: cities can;t be delineated with <br>?
(22:09:44) TwinsMetsFan: no
(22:09:48) rschen7754: that's what CA is doing
(22:09:48) TwinsMetsFan: not per INNA
(22:09:52) rschen7754: ok
(22:09:54) Master_son: hehe
(22:09:55) rschen7754: i'll have to fix it
(22:10:04) Master_son: call it good
(22:10:16) rschen7754: scott5114: how do you use the regexp?
(22:10:31) TwinsMetsFan: Rschen: Wikibooks has a good page on it
(22:10:35) Scott5114: that's just perl syntax
(22:10:42) Master_son: powerfu
(22:10:43) Master_son: l
(22:10:51) Scott5114: all you'd have to do in AWB is find and replace <br> with ", "
(22:11:03) rschen7754: ok
(22:11:04) Master_son: TMF and I used it to switch MN shields form png to svg within 1 hour
(22:11:13) TwinsMetsFan: yep
(22:11:31) Master_son: see you thought I was going to take all the credit didn't ya? :P
(22:11:41) TwinsMetsFan: good thing, they've been deleting obsolete shields on Wikipedia like crazy lately
(22:11:47) TwinsMetsFan: lol possibly
(22:11:56) Master_son: Big8tex or whatever his name is?
(22:12:00) rschen7754: sometimes before the transclusins are fixed
(22:12:02) TwinsMetsFan: yep
(22:12:09) TwinsMetsFan: that's been the issue in cases
(22:12:32) Master_son: there are some states with PNG sheilds out there (ND)
(22:12:42) TwinsMetsFan: CT's all PNG
(22:12:50) TwinsMetsFan: LA was until today
(22:12:53) Polaron: no ability to make svg for me
(22:13:07) Master_son: use Inkscape
(22:13:11) TwinsMetsFan: Polaron: do you have any specs for CT?
(22:13:12) rschen7754: there we go
(22:13:13) rschen7754: lol
(22:13:32) Scott5114: someone on MTR made up some pattern-accurate KS shields and put them in the public domain
(22:13:35) Polaron: not really, I worked off measurements of an actual sign
(22:13:50) TwinsMetsFan: that works
(22:14:01) Master_son: What standard does Maine use for sheilds - If Im correct Maine is using Mass sheilds
(22:14:15) Polaron: yes
(22:14:33) Master_son: They can't be EXACTLY the same?
(22:14:40) deepshuck: they're wicked close
(22:14:42) rschen7754: based off their shared history?
(22:14:43) deepshuck: if not identical
(22:14:47) Polaron: From the looks of it they are
(22:14:50) Master_son: hmm
(22:14:56) Master_son: but what was the topic again?
(22:15:06) deepshuck: photos here http://www.gribblenation.net/meends/
(22:15:23) TwinsMetsFan: it was browsing, which was the task force proposal
(22:15:56) Master_son: how many states are having issues right now besides IL, KY and OK?
(22:16:12) Scott5114: OH and MI are mostly stubs
(22:16:15) rschen7754: browsing, or in general?
(22:16:20) Master_son: browsing
(22:16:29) vishwin60: IN is pretty bad, too
(22:16:42) TwinsMetsFan: IL, KY and OK - infobox issues, TX - bad progression, rest - no idea
(22:16:51) Master_son: Your page says all browse templates are at standards, but I;m sure not all states are using them
(22:16:57) Master_son: as you said TMF
(22:16:58) Scott5114: we need to launch an all out war on stubs
(22:17:02) rschen7754: well that means the coding exits
(22:17:03) TwinsMetsFan: correct
(22:17:06) rschen7754: *exists
(22:17:07) Master_son: Welcome to the USA
(22:17:15) rschen7754: whether it's used or not is another story
(22:17:21) Master_son: true
(22:17:21) Scott5114: expand, polish, bring up to wp and usrd standards
(22:17:22) TwinsMetsFan: we also need to declare a halt to new articles
(22:17:34) Master_son: agreed on the halt to new articles.
(22:17:42) TwinsMetsFan: no more unless you're willing to make the new article a complete one
(22:17:48) rschen7754: well... can that be enforced???
(22:17:50) deepshuck: not like you can stop people from making them
(22:17:50) TwinsMetsFan: i mean B-class
(22:17:50) Scott5114: what if some newbie does make one?
(22:17:52) Master_son: until the existing ones are fixed and expanded
(22:17:58) deepshuck: unless you want to be deletionist
(22:17:59) TwinsMetsFan: then we deal with it
(22:18:17) Polaron: that's not really enforceable though
(22:18:19) TwinsMetsFan: but if the stream slows to a trickle, that's still good
(22:18:30) Master_son: oh we have our issues with deletionists already...
(22:18:32) Scott5114: we could focus on two states a month
(22:18:34) deepshuck: "hay a few people an IRC decided you can no longer make articles... you're banned!"
(22:18:43) TwinsMetsFan: Scott: agreed
(22:18:47) vishwin60: IL infobox has been converted
(22:18:53) rschen7754: how about discouraged, not banned?
(22:18:53) Scott5114: another thing that nobody has mentioned
(22:19:02) Master_son: that is?
(22:19:06) Scott5114: we need to get citations consistent
(22:19:06) TwinsMetsFan: discouraged, yes
(22:19:12) Master_son: yes!
(22:19:14) Scott5114: using {{cite web}} and the other templates
(22:19:17) TwinsMetsFan: b/c we can't ban it
(22:19:23) vishwin60: right!
(22:19:26) Master_son: I've been using the {{reflist}} template lately
(22:19:29) rschen7754: citations: yes
(22:19:35) TwinsMetsFan: i've been trying to convert to those as i find them
(22:19:35) rschen7754: {{reflist}} has been created
(22:19:35) vishwin60: GA and FA noms encourage the usage of those
(22:19:36) Master_son: for the References section
(22:19:40) Scott5114: Kansas Turnpike's FAC got an oppose vote because the references were of different formats
(22:19:44) rschen7754: i can start work on AWBing it
(22:19:54) deepshuck: is that lengths help page still around?
(22:20:01) Master_son: and changing most of the cites on IA, MN to {{cite <insert source here}} or whatever
(22:20:01) TwinsMetsFan: yes
(22:20:02) Scott5114: I need to go through Oklahoma and fix them
(22:20:05) vishwin60: I tried using the JS peerreviewer
(22:20:17) TwinsMetsFan: deepshuck: it's at [[WP:USRD/L]]
(22:20:24) rschen7754: lenghts is another project too
(22:20:34) Scott5114: vishwin60: yes, that helped it out a lot; but the oppose vote hasn't been stricken yet
(22:20:45) deepshuck: ah another extra project
(22:20:53) Master_son: yeah
(22:21:00) rschen7754: well on my todo list
(22:21:02) TwinsMetsFan: that's the theme
(22:21:16) Master_son: Eggsellent on ILL
(22:21:28) rschen7754: working on AWB CA routeboxes
(22:21:33) rschen7754: but anyway...
(22:21:35) Master_son: Rob won't even notice 8)
(22:21:42) TwinsMetsFan: it looks like IL was a clean convert
(22:21:47) Master_son: very clean
(22:22:00) vishwin60: except see also is broken, but Lpangelrob's gonna have to fix that
(22:22:11) rschen7754: see also needs to be removed
(22:22:14) rschen7754: thats what browse is for
(22:22:17) deepshuck: ah so we're mass-changing to infobox road? the thing you all hated me for doing? :P
(22:22:21) TwinsMetsFan: you can use AWB to fix that, but not in the conventional way
(22:22:40) rschen7754: with the junction list included to prevent loss of data
(22:22:41) Master_son: consistency deepshuck, you won on that one 8)
(22:22:58) Master_son: what are you talking aobut with See Also?
(22:23:07) Master_son: like what US routes and Interstates have/
(22:23:07) TwinsMetsFan: look at the code for ILL 23
(22:23:08) Master_son: ?
(22:23:25) TwinsMetsFan: | see_also = [[Image:I-24.svg|20px]] [[Interstate 24]]<br>[[Image:US 24.svg|20px]] [[U.S. Route 24|US 24]]
(22:23:35) Master_son: use the browse - I agree
(22:23:37) TwinsMetsFan: the next route should be I-24, not ILL 25
(22:23:42) vishwin60: exactly
(22:23:43) deepshuck: oh, those need to merge with the browse
(22:23:51) TwinsMetsFan: yeah
(22:23:53) vishwin60: that was what I said earlier
(22:23:58) Master_son: ROFL
(22:24:08) TwinsMetsFan: we should be populating the new USRD to-do list as we go here
(22:24:32) deepshuck: here's my suggestion: add a temporary piece to infobox road {{#if:{{{see_also|}}}|[[hotaeuhoeau|o]]}}
(22:24:41) deepshuck: then do a what links here on hotaeuhoeau
(22:25:06) Master_son: ...
(22:25:15) Scott5114: that's how the OK template used to track people using custom PNG shields
(22:25:16) TwinsMetsFan: i see what you're saying
(22:25:26) TwinsMetsFan: lol
(22:25:35) deepshuck: easiest way to find ones that use see_also
(22:25:42) TwinsMetsFan: right
(22:25:49) rschen7754: can't AWB cities, the jct list uses br
(22:25:50) Master_son: I got it now 8)
(22:25:55) Scott5114: and if you turn the ok template upside down it makes a nifty toothbrush too, lol
(22:25:58) TwinsMetsFan: here's an idea
(22:26:03) Master_son: ROFLMAO
(22:26:03) TwinsMetsFan: use AWB
(22:26:07) TwinsMetsFan: do a find/replace
(22:26:14) TwinsMetsFan: see what articles come up
(22:26:17) TwinsMetsFan: write down that list
(22:26:23) TwinsMetsFan: then edit them manually
(22:26:30) rschen7754: talking to me?
(22:26:31) deepshuck: nah it's easier to just what links here them
(22:26:45) TwinsMetsFan: that's how i came up with the shield_ext list
(22:27:50) TwinsMetsFan: okay, back to the original topic: the task force idea
(22:27:59) TwinsMetsFan: how feasible is it?
(22:28:14) rschen7754: i think its good
(22:28:34) Master_son: I'm going to say the same - good
(22:28:37) rschen7754: projects in consideration being NV, KY, UT
(22:28:59) TwinsMetsFan: yeah, i came up with a list earlier
(22:29:05) Master_son: share it
(22:29:06) TwinsMetsFan: hopefully it didn't scroll off...
(22:29:12) Scott5114: maybe KS, IN, MI, OH?
(22:29:23) Scott5114: I'm the only one in KS, kind of secondary
(22:29:31) rschen7754: ya potentially
(22:29:39) Scott5114: how is MO doing?
(22:29:41) TwinsMetsFan: here we go: KY, NV, OH, AL, UT
(22:29:45) Master_son: If anyone has seen him, Stratosphere may be still around?
(22:29:48) Master_son: for MI
(22:29:58) Scott5114: and rt66lt for MO
(22:30:21) Scott5114: I'll have to take over MO eventually, I'll be moving there for college
(22:30:27) deepshuck: I wonder how many states haven't fixed the text to the USSH guideline yet
(22:30:34) TwinsMetsFan: for note: [[Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. Roads/to do]] has been created: any tasks we come up with tonight can be added
(22:30:58) TwinsMetsFan: deepshuck: many
(22:30:59) rschen7754: i think i went around and fixed it
(22:31:06) deepshuck: damn
(22:31:09) rschen7754: at least partially
(22:31:12) deepshuck: that's probably easily AWBable
(22:31:17) TwinsMetsFan: i see ones everyday that use the wrong text
(22:31:25) vishwin60: I used to live in MO
(22:31:33) vishwin60: so I'll do part of the MO work
(22:31:35) TwinsMetsFan: and then you have newbies erasing the pipe to hide the state name
(22:31:42) rschen7754: well sorry i meant WP pages
(22:31:44) TwinsMetsFan: resulting in the state showing
(22:31:48) rschen7754: those have been fixed
(22:32:17) TwinsMetsFan: ok, so MO has some support
(22:32:37) TwinsMetsFan: KY, UT, NV... all inactive?
(22:32:44) TwinsMetsFan: no dedicated editors?
(22:32:51) Master_son: I have limited support in WI form Royalbroil and TShilo12
(22:33:03) Master_son: actually more than limited
(22:33:18) TwinsMetsFan: lemme make a spreadsheet
(22:33:41) TwinsMetsFan: so, let's go in order here
(22:33:45) TwinsMetsFan: first was KS
(22:34:06) TwinsMetsFan: Scott, how much support do you get? none at all?
(22:34:17) Scott5114: none really
(22:34:45) TwinsMetsFan: IN?
(22:34:45) Scott5114: there was a newbie who was the one who actually started the project but he seems to have vanished
(22:34:59) vishwin60: I'm working on IN
(22:35:12) TwinsMetsFan: any support?
(22:35:25) vishwin60: what do you mean? I sort of missed it
(22:35:35) TwinsMetsFan: supporting editors
(22:35:47) TwinsMetsFan: people dedicated to Indiana
(22:35:54) vishwin60: Holderca1, probably
(22:36:11) TwinsMetsFan: how are the articles?
(22:36:13) vishwin60: maybe a little Lpangelrob with ones bordering IL
(22:36:18) vishwin60: most are stubs
(22:36:34) vishwin60: but I'm working on them so they are at least Start-class
(22:36:45) TwinsMetsFan: ok
(22:36:50) TwinsMetsFan: MI?
(22:37:03) TwinsMetsFan: i'm supposedly a member there, but...no time
(22:37:11) TwinsMetsFan: anyone know what's going on up there?
(22:37:12) vishwin60: for IN, the ones that are fixed are the first 9 routes
(22:37:12) Scott5114: when I assessed it the articles were mostly stubs
(22:37:14) Master_son: Stratosphere is the only one I heard of but since the maps were done where is he?
(22:37:23) vishwin60: true...
(22:37:32) TwinsMetsFan: haven't seen him lately
(22:37:41) Scott5114: has he asterisked?
(22:37:54) TwinsMetsFan: good question
(22:38:02) TwinsMetsFan: yes
(22:38:12) Master_son: then he should still be around
(22:38:16) Master_son: somewhere
(22:38:18) TwinsMetsFan: but the value of the asterisk remains to be seen
(22:38:19) vishwin60: he still sort of is
(22:38:34) Scott5114: on this to do, are we looking for just "big things" that need to be done, or minor one off tasks to specific articles?
(22:38:34) TwinsMetsFan: i mean, editors who are barely active have asterisked
(22:38:35) Master_son: which is why I say "somewhere
(22:38:46) Master_son: big things I believe
(22:38:48) TwinsMetsFan: Scott: big things
(22:38:55) vishwin60: wow, his last contrib is March 14
(22:38:56) Scott5114: so no "convert I-435 exit list" :P
(22:39:02) TwinsMetsFan: i'm trying to get a feel for a whole project
(22:39:04) TwinsMetsFan: no :P
(22:39:07) Master_son: that would be an Interstate task
(22:39:21) TwinsMetsFan: correct
(22:39:22) Scott5114: we could have a list of those type of to dos as well
(22:39:38) Scott5114: for the absorbed projects
(22:39:43) TwinsMetsFan: right
(22:39:44) Master_son: riht
(22:39:46) Master_son: i mean
(22:39:48) Master_son: right
(22:39:51) TwinsMetsFan: lol
(22:40:02) TwinsMetsFan: yes, the absorbed projects would use the USRD to-do
(22:40:21) Scott5114: (btw, made a shortcut to [[WP:USRD/TD]] if anyone is lazy as me
(22:40:23) TwinsMetsFan: which is now visible on the main USRD page
(22:40:26) TwinsMetsFan: nice
(22:40:59) Scott5114: oh, and the quality statistics table is at [[WP:USRD/A/QS]]
(22:41:05) TwinsMetsFan: okay, i'll speed this up - anyone has any objection to the states mentioned by me or Scott?
(22:41:30) Scott5114: Oh, I've heard SC bandied around before too
(22:41:46) Master_son: brb dad's callin
(22:41:53) TwinsMetsFan: ok
(22:42:01) TwinsMetsFan: yeah, SC was real bad when i assessed
(22:42:24) Scott5114: that might be interesting to see a shieldmaker play with, SC has a very distinctive house style, at least on BGSes
(22:42:37) Scott5114: not sure about the standalone markers
(22:43:10) Scott5114: series e or f with a black bordered cutout for US and state routes on BGSes
(22:43:27) TwinsMetsFan: ok, so KS, IN, MI, OH, KY, NV, AL, UT, MO, SC
(22:43:35) TwinsMetsFan: all candidates for demotion
(22:43:44) vishwin60: what???
(22:43:51) vishwin60: rm IN from that
(22:43:58) TwinsMetsFan: candidates, my friend
(22:44:00) Scott5114: I've also heard talk of IA
(22:44:15) Polaron: make sure to contact listed members before actually doing so just for courtesy
(22:44:20) Scott5114: rschen7754: how is WA doing these days?
(22:44:37) Polaron: some might be spurred into action by simply informing them of this
(22:44:47) TwinsMetsFan: Polaron: yep, we will, that was actually part of the proposal but i forgot it
(22:44:58) TwinsMetsFan: forgot to mention it*
(22:45:54) deepshuck: isn't there a midlesex county nj or something ridiculous like that?
(22:45:57) deepshuck: middlesex*
(22:45:59) deepshuck: a project for it
(22:46:09) TwinsMetsFan: i hope not
(22:46:15) Scott5114: if so, merge up to NJSCR and that's that
(22:46:21) TwinsMetsFan: bingo
(22:46:28) TwinsMetsFan: make it a task force of NJSCR
(22:46:42) vishwin60: good idea
(22:46:45) Scott5114: NJ is a good project
(22:46:51) vishwin60: sure is
(22:46:57) TwinsMetsFan: yep, no question
(22:46:58) vishwin60: anyway, gotta go
(22:47:04) Scott5114: (btw, Anthere was stuck in Newark a few hours ago...)
(22:47:13) TwinsMetsFan: cya Vishwin
(22:47:28) vishwin60 left the room.
(22:47:32) TwinsMetsFan: so, KS, IN, MI, OH, KY, NV, AL, UT, MO, SC, IA
(22:47:43) deepshuck: oh I was thinking of Harrisburg area roads
(22:47:44) TwinsMetsFan: i'd say the six worst should be demoted
(22:47:54) TwinsMetsFan: oh yeah that
(22:48:05) TwinsMetsFan: yeah, that thing's inactive as hell
(22:48:33) TwinsMetsFan: i could probably make that a task force of PA and no one would notice
(22:48:41) Scott5114: we may want to coordinate with general state wikiprojects as well
(22:48:56) Scott5114: some of the WikiProject Oklahoma editors have done a little bit on OK
(22:49:13) Scott5114: they help RC patrol them for instance
(22:49:19) TwinsMetsFan: i'll get a list of which of the above states have WPs
(22:49:47) Scott5114: some cities have wikiprojects too, like Kansas City
(22:50:31) TwinsMetsFan: KS, IN, MI, OH, KY, UT, MO, SC, IA have WPs
(22:50:59) TwinsMetsFan: NV and AL are the only two that don't
(22:51:30) Scott5114: such a shame there's no KS editors, it's a really nice system
(22:51:49) TwinsMetsFan: hmm, the KS WP is lacking
(22:52:02) TwinsMetsFan: oh, it was made two days ago :P
(22:52:07) Scott5114: lol
(22:52:20) Scott5114: we may want to hold off on demoting KS then
(22:52:21) TwinsMetsFan: okay, so move KS to the second list
(22:52:46) Scott5114: to see if their state wp develops and helps with KSSH
(22:52:49) TwinsMetsFan: true, b/c there's really no place to warn KS editors
(22:52:52) TwinsMetsFan: yeah
(22:53:28) TwinsMetsFan: KY is an automatic demotion
(22:53:36) TwinsMetsFan: i don't even think they need to be warned
(22:53:42) TwinsMetsFan: they've had their chance
(22:53:59) Scott5114: as someone else in here said, KY is the joke of the project
(22:54:11) TwinsMetsFan: i think that was me :P
(22:54:49) TwinsMetsFan: so there's one
(22:55:05) TwinsMetsFan: Utah hasn't done anything lately
(22:55:20) TwinsMetsFan: at least, i haven't seen anything
(22:55:54) Scott5114: demoted projects can have their completion lists moved back under the USRD completion list hierarchy
(22:56:17) TwinsMetsFan: correct
(22:56:38) ***TwinsMetsFan is crosschecking the UTSH participant list with those starred on the newsletter page
(22:57:28) TwinsMetsFan: okay, all but Rschen and PA's myselfalso are inactive
(22:58:07) TwinsMetsFan: talk is really inactive
(22:58:16) TwinsMetsFan: UT is no. 2
(22:58:53) TwinsMetsFan: i think from this point out, states need to be notified first
(22:59:30) TwinsMetsFan: hmm, wait, what about AL?
(23:04:20) Scott5114: what do you mean?
(23:04:47) rschen7754: apologies about that
(23:05:09) TwinsMetsFan: well, haven't seen much out of AL
(23:05:27) TwinsMetsFan: not sure if anyone there is doing anything
(23:05:37) rschen7754: can anyone sum up what's happened since i left?
(23:05:58) TwinsMetsFan: how long was that?
(23:06:09) rschen7754: well nvm... i'll look at the transcript
(23:06:18) TwinsMetsFan: ok
(23:06:37) TwinsMetsFan: brief recap of this: KY and UT will be demoted, no notification
(23:06:47) rschen7754: concyr
(23:06:47) TwinsMetsFan: still deciding on AL
(23:06:50) rschen7754: *concur
(23:06:54) rschen7754: cc might be active there
(23:07:23) TwinsMetsFan: yeah, he's marked as active
(23:07:39) rschen7754: was active a few weeks ago anyway
(23:08:07) Scott5114: UT is going to need some redirect help
(23:08:21) Scott5114: U-* are being redirected to articles on german submaries
(23:08:27) rschen7754: !!!
(23:08:38) Scott5114: not the articles themselves, the U-* form
(23:08:41) rschen7754: i know ca- and wa- redirect to legislative districts
(23:08:54) Scott5114: some K-* redirect to random things
(23:08:55) rschen7754: should we start a debate with them to get that fixed?
(23:08:59) rschen7754: K-9?
(23:09:15) Scott5114: yes, and K-12, and there's one that redirect to a hong kong tv show
(23:09:33) TwinsMetsFan: AL is fairly inactive, checked last 500 RC to "List of state highways in Alabama"
(23:09:39) TwinsMetsFan: really nothing
(23:09:39) Scott5114: in most cases K-x redirects to Kx, which is then a dab page
(23:09:55) TwinsMetsFan: i'd say AL is #3, but we'll post a warning
(23:10:22) TwinsMetsFan: i did notice that one new AL article was made, but under the wrong name
(23:11:27) rschen7754: oooooh.... one
(23:11:35) Scott5114: we may want to introduce a new citation template
(23:11:49) rschen7754: in general? or for AL?
(23:11:50) Scott5114: there's no {{cite map}} right now
(23:11:54) rschen7754: \oh
(23:12:12) Scott5114: unless someone can find a better option
(23:12:23) Scott5114: maybe a book cite template
(23:12:36) Scott5114: or something like that
(23:12:56) Scott5114: no, because wouldn't we want a cartography field?
(23:13:17) Scott5114: like cartography by Rand McNally, or Gousha, or ODOT, or something?
(23:13:28) TwinsMetsFan: yeah
(23:13:40) Scott5114: all right, someone needs to look into that
(23:13:53) Scott5114: enquire with the citation templates people first of course
(23:14:06) TwinsMetsFan: perhaps another to do task?
(23:14:12) Scott5114: sure
(23:14:45) Scott5114: could make it an indented list item of "convert refs to dadada"
(23:15:18) TwinsMetsFan: yeah
(23:15:32) TwinsMetsFan: as for KS, i'm not sure what to do since the parent WP is a newborn and there's only you, Scott, at the project
(23:15:51) Scott5114: wait a little while to see if the parent matures I suppose
(23:15:57) Scott5114: we can always demote later
(23:16:08) TwinsMetsFan: right
(23:16:24) Scott5114: I need to fill in some of the redlinks from KSTpk
(23:16:39) Scott5114: I wish the FAC were more active
(23:16:45) rschen7754: btw i'm a member of all the projects i believe
(23:17:00) TwinsMetsFan: that leaves IN, MI, OH, NV, MO, SC, IA
(23:17:03) Scott5114: lol, that's like being tom from myspace :P
(23:17:08) TwinsMetsFan: ROFL
(23:17:22) rschen7754: so i probably cant be counted as an active user for any except CA, USRD, IH, USH, maybe WA, except for assessment tagging
(23:17:29) rschen7754: stupid tom
(23:18:05) rschen7754: in regards to your (old) comment about WA
(23:18:15) rschen7754: it's inactive right now
(23:18:21) rschen7754: because i havent had time to fix the stuf
(23:18:28) rschen7754: okay we do get about 5-10 edits a week
(23:18:30) Scott5114: isn't demotion worthy though?
(23:18:56) rschen7754: TEG has returned though so it might be reactive again
(23:19:05) rschen7754: scott5114: referring to WA?
(23:19:14) rschen7754: i think north is also active there
(23:19:52) TwinsMetsFan: ok, so no for WA
(23:20:11) TwinsMetsFan: any thoughts on the 7 above?
(23:20:14) Scott5114: photography for articles would be nice too...
(23:20:29) rschen7754: ok i'm caught up
(23:20:33) rschen7754: again apologies bout that
(23:20:41) Scott5114: no problem
(23:20:42) TwinsMetsFan: np
(23:20:52) TwinsMetsFan: Nevada: number 4?
(23:20:58) Scott5114: everyone seems to have fallen asleep on their keyboards :P
(23:21:01) rschen7754: so what are candidates?
(23:21:08) TwinsMetsFan: IN, MI, OH, NV, MO, SC, IA
(23:21:21) TwinsMetsFan: KY, UT and AL are slated for demotion
(23:21:27) TwinsMetsFan: AL with notification
(23:21:35) rschen7754: sorry
(23:21:45) rschen7754: KY, UT, AL need to be demoted
(23:21:52) rschen7754: so yes concur
(23:22:00) TwinsMetsFan: ok
(23:22:00) Scott5114: we'll need to do a thread on [[WT:USRD]] of course
(23:22:06) rschen7754: NV isn't slated for demotion?
(23:22:08) TwinsMetsFan: right, a recap of this
(23:22:18) TwinsMetsFan: not as of yet
(23:22:26) TwinsMetsFan: but we can discuss it now
(23:22:37) Master_son: k im back
(23:22:41) Scott5114: wb
(23:22:43) Master_son: is IA demoted yet?
(23:22:45) Master_son: ;)
(23:22:50) TwinsMetsFan: sweet, everyone's coming back
(23:22:52) Scott5114: no, it's at the end of the queue
(23:22:58) Master_son: k
(23:23:11) Scott5114: we're discussing NV right now
(23:23:26) Scott5114: oh, we seem to have skipped IN and MI...
(23:23:29) Master_son: I dunno why I started that one - but I think I shouldn't have
(23:23:29) rschen7754: what order are we going in?
(23:23:37) ***TwinsMetsFan wonders that
(23:23:40) TwinsMetsFan: oops
(23:23:42) rschen7754: sorry i think i messed things up
(23:23:47) Scott5114: <TwinsMetsFan> IN, MI, OH, NV, MO, SC, IA
(23:23:51) rschen7754: we can go in order
(23:23:53) TwinsMetsFan: ah yes
(23:23:58) TwinsMetsFan: Indiana
(23:23:58) Master_son: Ok, TMF made the list :)
(23:24:07) TwinsMetsFan: LMAO
(23:24:12) ***rschen7754 feels so out of the loop after being gone 20 minutes
(23:24:25) TwinsMetsFan: for IN, Vishwin seems big on fixing that project
(23:24:33) ***Scott5114 pictures TMF with glasses and a giant book: "ah yes, indiana"
(23:24:41) TwinsMetsFan: how much work he's actually done, i'm not sure
(23:24:44) TwinsMetsFan: ROFL Scott
(23:24:50) Master_son: ROFL
(23:25:15) Master_son: Indiana has Vishwin and who else?
(23:25:23) Scott5114: well, we'll let vishwin handle it for now
(23:25:29) Master_son: ok
(23:25:32) Master_son: next?
(23:25:36) Scott5114: if he gives up then we can discuss it again
(23:25:39) TwinsMetsFan: Holderca1
(23:25:41) rschen7754: hey has somebody updated WP:ILSR for new infobox?
(23:25:45) TwinsMetsFan: Indiana native
(23:25:47) rschen7754: sorry a tangent
(23:25:56) TwinsMetsFan: yep, Rob already commented on it too
(23:26:03) rschen7754: ok
(23:26:11) Scott5114: he's online right now?
(23:26:14) Master_son: tell him to get in here!
(23:26:38) ***rschen7754 he have IRC?
(23:26:39) TwinsMetsFan: his last edit was at 11 eastern
(23:26:44) TwinsMetsFan: 26 minutes ago
(23:26:49) TwinsMetsFan: so it's possible
(23:26:53) Scott5114: there must be a java chat somewhere if he doesn't have it
(23:26:59) Master_son: hmm
(23:27:20) Scott5114: if not I imagine we could set one up somewhere
(23:27:20) ***rschen7754 hmm
(23:27:40) rschen7754: stupid database lock
(23:27:49) Master_son: yah just noticed
(23:28:04) Master_son: unlocked
(23:28:20) TwinsMetsFan: i think we'll let IN go for now
(23:28:27) Master_son: ok - MI
(23:28:27) ***rschen7754 ok
(23:28:34) ***rschen7754 MI..
(23:28:37) TwinsMetsFan: Michigan...
(23:28:41) ***TwinsMetsFan turns page in book
(23:28:44) Master_son: J. Frog
(23:29:07) Scott5114: Michigan is mainly stubs
(23:29:17) rschen7754: raccoonfox is on another account
(23:29:17) Master_son: with maps might I add ;)
(23:29:18) Scott5114: even on articles that could have a non stub article
(23:29:21) rschen7754: someone hacked his
(23:29:32) Scott5114: who is raccoonfox?
(23:29:47) Master_son: yeah what he asked
(23:30:04) rschen7754: he ... was a major founding father of canada roads WPs
(23:30:04) TwinsMetsFan: he founded half of the Canada WPs
(23:30:08) rschen7754: lol
(23:30:09) TwinsMetsFan: lmao
(23:30:12) Master_son: oh
(23:30:15) deepshuck: like nunavut?
(23:30:19) rschen7754: ya
(23:30:25) rschen7754: sort of a worthless proj imho
(23:30:41) Master_son: next to ... Antarctica ;P
(23:30:42) rschen7754: make that imco
(23:30:58) TwinsMetsFan: actually, no
(23:31:03) TwinsMetsFan: Mitchazenia founded Nunavut
(23:31:12) rschen7754: oh ok
(23:31:16) rschen7754: he founded some too
(23:31:23) rschen7754: speaking of which he is a member of MI.
(23:32:24) rschen7754: is active but not with MI
(23:32:43) rschen7754: imzadi is somewhat active
(23:32:51) TwinsMetsFan: i've seen a couple of the newer MI editors do some work
(23:33:09) rschen7754: IW4- not very active highway wiae
(23:33:12) Master_son: some of those were editors who were inserting all those JCTs in US 12, and such
(23:33:13) rschen7754: *wise
(23:33:18) rschen7754: grrrrrr
(23:33:24) TwinsMetsFan: oh yeah
(23:33:57) Master_son: Stratosphere's been around somewhat last month
(23:34:04) Master_son: some MI, some MTF
(23:34:06) TwinsMetsFan: Mihsfbstadium does work off and on
(23:34:49) TwinsMetsFan: i think we can give MI a pass, as it's recent changes looks healthy
(23:34:53) rschen7754: ya
(23:34:58) rschen7754: mitch... not active in roads
(23:34:58) Master_son: agreed
(23:35:16) TwinsMetsFan: ok, next is Ohio
(23:35:28) rschen7754: oh...
(23:35:29) TwinsMetsFan: 75% of articles are stubs with no lead
(23:35:48) rschen7754: late 2006 that place was one of most active
(23:36:01) rschen7754: 23 members too
(23:36:03) Scott5114: how is related changes doing?
(23:36:07) rschen7754: what happened???
(23:36:09) Scott5114: 23 members? o_O
(23:36:11) Master_son: Homefryes is still working on
(23:36:13) Master_son: it
(23:36:16) Master_son: at times
(23:36:29) Scott5114: anyone besides him lately?
(23:36:30) rschen7754: o
(23:36:31) TwinsMetsFan: hmm
(23:36:41) TwinsMetsFan: # of editors vs. quality
(23:36:48) TwinsMetsFan: this will be tested here...
(23:36:53) Scott5114: what's Homefryes' home state?
(23:36:55) Master_son: KC8YNJ has
(23:37:10) TwinsMetsFan: Ohio
(23:37:11) Master_son: but that was waaaaaay back then - he's not anymore :(
(23:37:46) rschen7754: 8 road rel;ated changes over 4-5 days
(23:37:56) Scott5114: well, if Homefryes is still focusing on it
(23:38:19) Scott5114: perhaps a few of us could help him get the articles in shape
(23:38:24) Master_son: agreed
(23:38:25) Master_son: TMF?
(23:38:49) TwinsMetsFan: i say give them a pass, but something should be said on their talk - not for demotion, but telling them to improve the stubs
(23:38:52) rschen7754: so...dont demote?
(23:38:58) rschen7754: imho i think thats ok
(23:39:03) TwinsMetsFan: not now
(23:39:03) Master_son: agreed
(23:39:06) rschen7754: (not demoting that is)
(23:39:09) Scott5114: we could upgrade a few, run them through assessment review, and then tell them 'now you try'
(23:39:23) TwinsMetsFan: there we go
(23:39:27) Master_son: what's left
(23:39:28) Master_son: ?
(23:39:42) Scott5114: <TwinsMetsFan> IN, MI, OH, NV, MO, SC, IA
(23:39:47) Scott5114: NV
(23:39:57) Master_son: Yeah NOW were at NV
(23:40:05) rschen7754: lots of stubs
(23:40:31) Scott5114: I seem to remember a major dispute on one near Tahoe Lake about a year ago
(23:40:31) TwinsMetsFan: no activity whatsoever
(23:40:41) Scott5114: when NCs were still up in the air
(23:40:42) Master_son: As I said before - why I started, I don't know. Only me, TMF and Rschen are members
(23:40:47) Master_son: I say demote it
(23:40:56) rschen7754: ya
(23:41:05) rschen7754: odyssey19 worked on it a little
(23:41:06) TwinsMetsFan: yeah, demote - i've had them on my watchlist/rc for months, no action
(23:41:10) rschen7754: but i think he forgot how to log in
(23:41:12) rschen7754: me too
(23:41:16) Master_son: me three
(23:41:22) TwinsMetsFan: notification?
(23:41:22) Scott5114: maybe we should get rid of that wikiproject map, it might be encouraging people to make projects
(23:41:34) Master_son: also agree
(23:41:43) TwinsMetsFan: seconded
(23:41:49) Scott5114: notify in case odyssey19 perks up
(23:41:56) Master_son: yeah
(23:41:59) TwinsMetsFan: ok
(23:42:21) Scott5114: so NV: demote with notification
(23:42:24) Master_son: yes
(23:42:26) Scott5114: MO
(23:42:27) TwinsMetsFan: yep
(23:42:31) Scott5114: has a lot of articles
(23:42:33) Master_son: to NV TMF
(23:42:47) TwinsMetsFan: Vishwin's been doing some work at MO
(23:42:56) TwinsMetsFan: that was around January or so
(23:43:05) TwinsMetsFan: not sure what else is going on there
(23:43:10) Scott5114: If MO needed some help I would be willing to pitch in there
(23:43:29) rschen7754: ya
(23:43:33) rschen7754: i mean keep the map
(23:43:40) rschen7754: but dont put it anywhere
(23:43:46) TwinsMetsFan: yeah
(23:44:01) Master_son: it won't be orphaned - I have it on my userspace 8)
(23:44:32) TwinsMetsFan: yeah, MO is really inactive
(23:44:39) rschen7754: rt66lt hasnt edited since june
(23:44:44) rschen7754: and i think he was main editor
(23:44:47) TwinsMetsFan: Vishwin is really the only active one in roads
(23:44:55) Scott5114: he was
(23:45:04) rschen7754: what if on the participants section... we said dont join unless you can be committed?
(23:45:06) Master_son: Maybe let Vishwin and Scott have at it for now then come back?
(23:45:18) TwinsMetsFan: Rschen and Master son: agree to both
(23:45:30) rschen7754: ok
(23:45:33) Master_son: k
(23:45:34) Scott5114: sure, I'm on spring break, I can go for it
(23:45:41) TwinsMetsFan: awesome
(23:45:44) TwinsMetsFan: SC
(23:45:46) rschen7754: i mean does that include the national people like us?
(23:46:01) TwinsMetsFan: well, by nature, we roam so i'd say no
(23:46:18) Scott5114: national people don't need to be on the list, they can just jump in whenever they're needed
(23:46:24) Master_son: true
(23:46:33) Scott5114: if a project needs help they can send up a message to [[WT:USRD]]
(23:46:41) Scott5114: or pop in here and request it
(23:47:07) TwinsMetsFan: also, WT:USRD/SUB will be fitted to that purpose after tonight
(23:47:37) TwinsMetsFan: it'll be similar to a FARC
(23:47:38) rschen7754: so... what if we put a notice that says that the national editors are also participants?
(23:47:41) rschen7754: and just remove our names
(23:47:43) Scott5114: it would be nice if we could get the worklist that shows article classes sortable by state...
(23:48:03) Master_son: hmm
(23:48:14) TwinsMetsFan: Rschen: that'd be fine if the national editors are listed somewhere
(23:48:18) TwinsMetsFan: like on USRD
(23:48:23) Master_son: agreed
(23:48:47) TwinsMetsFan: or we could do it like a transclusion
(23:48:48) Master_son: man I feel like a comformist O_o
(23:48:58) TwinsMetsFan: make a subpage of USRD
(23:49:04) TwinsMetsFan: and transclude that page
(23:49:22) Master_son: I can see it - the Gang of Four! LOL
(23:49:30) TwinsMetsFan: LMAO
(23:49:35) rschen7754: ya
(23:49:37) Scott5114: I need to start a personal to do list
(23:49:57) Master_son: Mine's going to get a bit larger....
(23:50:05) TwinsMetsFan: mine's out of date
(23:50:06) rschen7754: ya
(23:50:17) Scott5114: I have a bunch of paper ones sitting around here
(23:50:31) Scott5114: various states and subjects
(23:50:35) Master_son: buried under jargon?
(23:50:37) TwinsMetsFan: same, except in windows Notepad form
(23:50:53) rschen7754: so... basically inactive project cleanup and members are the todo tasks?
(23:50:58) rschen7754: did we start a list or something?
(23:51:15) TwinsMetsFan: we have a national to do list now
(23:51:32) TwinsMetsFan: Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. Roads/to do
(23:51:39) rschen7754: oh the page got redone
(23:51:52) Scott5114: this is Big ToDos
(23:52:01) TwinsMetsFan: Rschen: yeah, that was to be the second topic of discussion tonight
(23:52:09) TwinsMetsFan: er, is, we've got time*
(23:52:24) Master_son: Where are we in the Demotion list?
(23:52:31) TwinsMetsFan: South Carolina
(23:52:38) Master_son: Who's active there?
(23:52:50) TwinsMetsFan: Vishwin (barely) and DanTD (barely)
(23:52:50) Scott5114: I've heard it described as a joke before as well
(23:53:01) rschen7754: ok just added stuff
(23:54:08) TwinsMetsFan: Vishwin is the only listed member
(23:54:10) Master_son: I think Vishwin started it after converting its sheilds to SVG
(23:54:14) TwinsMetsFan: instant demot
(23:54:16) Master_son: demote.
(23:54:17) TwinsMetsFan: demote*
(23:54:31) TwinsMetsFan: notification or no?
(23:54:38) rschen7754: wow tehy have a u.s. roads proj at de
(23:54:41) rschen7754: sorry random
(23:54:43) rschen7754: um...
(23:54:51) rschen7754: its inactive demote
(23:54:58) Scott5114: delaware?
(23:55:02) rschen7754: btw do we change the WP templates?
(23:55:09) Master_son: delaware has no project
(23:55:13) rschen7754: deustch wp
(23:55:15) rschen7754: wikipedia
(23:55:17) Scott5114: oh, I see
(23:55:20) TwinsMetsFan: Rschen: we'll redirect them
(23:55:23) Scott5114: anyone know german? :)
(23:55:25) Master_son: no
(23:55:30) TwinsMetsFan: i do not
(23:55:40) Polaron: delware roads can be temporarily controlled by MD or NJ
(23:55:46) Master_son: yeah
(23:56:00) TwinsMetsFan: Delaware doesn't have a project
(23:56:03) Master_son: so SC is demoted - only IA left?
(23:56:12) TwinsMetsFan: no notification for SC?
(23:56:18) Scott5114: we might want to make a note somewhere in case someone does speak german
(23:56:29) Master_son: omfg
(23:56:45) TwinsMetsFan: ?
(23:56:52) Master_son: we're getting lost
(23:56:58) rschen7754: yeah i think we should leave a note
(23:57:02) Master_son: agreed
(23:57:09) Scott5114: and an interwiki link on USRD
(23:57:11) rschen7754: that was my fault, i shouldnt have brought it up
(23:57:26) Master_son: we'll forgive you
(23:57:27) TwinsMetsFan: i think the interwiki is/was there
(23:57:28) Master_son: this time
(23:57:45) Master_son: ok, next
(23:57:45) TwinsMetsFan: yeah, it's there
(23:58:04) TwinsMetsFan: ok, notification for South Carolina. no, i presume?
(23:58:09) Master_son: yes
(23:58:15) Master_son: I mean put a note up
(23:58:23) Master_son: or whatever
(23:58:32) TwinsMetsFan: ok
(23:58:34) rschen7754: i think we should at least put a note up on all of them so people know what happened
(23:58:42) Master_son: yeah
(23:58:44) TwinsMetsFan: Scott?
(23:58:51) Scott5114: notification for sc?
(23:58:54) TwinsMetsFan: yeah
(23:59:16) Scott5114: I don't think it's necessary, nobody's really there and vishwin will know what's up
(23:59:26) Master_son: at least he should.
(23:59:39) TwinsMetsFan: two against two...yeah, we'll notify
(23:59:45) Master_son: 8)
(23:59:53) rschen7754: well imho even on the ones like ky
(23:59:57) TwinsMetsFan: spirit of consensus
(00:00:03) rschen7754: we should put a note up explaining what happened
(00:00:07) rschen7754: even if its after the fact
(00:00:09) TwinsMetsFan: right
(00:00:35) TwinsMetsFan: okay, it's time for the lowly Iowa :P
(00:00:40) Master_son: hmm
(00:00:41) rschen7754: hjmm
(00:00:58) Master_son: I've been doing alot with that myself
(00:01:29) Master_son: flipping between it, and MN, WI
(00:01:33) TwinsMetsFan: how much activity is there at IA?
(00:01:34) Scott5114: did they kill off the second routebox?
(00:01:44) TwinsMetsFan: yeah, that thing's dead
(00:01:45) Master_son: the one that went across the bottom
(00:01:49) TwinsMetsFan: i killed it
(00:01:52) Master_son: yeah its gone
(00:01:59) Scott5114: good deal
(00:02:03) rschen7754: no edits in the last 5 days
(00:02:11) Scott5114: who's been active before that?
(00:02:27) Master_son: its infobox road now
(00:02:31) Master_son: I have
(00:02:37) Master_son: DandyDan2007
(00:02:41) Master_son: and Station Attendant
(00:02:50) TwinsMetsFan: what about ObtuseAngle?
(00:03:23) Master_son: quite abit lately
(00:03:35) Master_son: on Tues for sure
(00:04:08) TwinsMetsFan: hmm, and the articles, even the stubs, can hold their own from what i've seen
(00:04:15) Master_son: yeah
(00:04:27) TwinsMetsFan: i say retain
(00:05:11) Scott5114: keep
(00:05:47) Scott5114: <TwinsMetsFan> IN, MI, OH, NV, MO, SC, IA
(00:05:50) Scott5114: in was keep
(00:05:54) Scott5114: what was mi?
(00:06:03) Master_son: Keep
(00:06:12) rschen7754: keep for now
(00:06:14) Scott5114: oh was keep
(00:06:18) Scott5114: right?
(00:06:23) TwinsMetsFan: yep
(00:06:37) Scott5114: NV was drop, MO keep, SC drop, IA keep
(00:06:42) rschen7754: so the ones doomed are KY, NV, SC?
(00:06:50) rschen7754: wasnt there another?
(00:06:51) Scott5114: and UT, AL
(00:06:54) Master_son: I gotta go - later
(00:06:57) Scott5114: later
(00:07:01) Master_son left the room.
(00:07:20) TwinsMetsFan: yep, those are the five
(00:07:47) TwinsMetsFan: KY and UT: demote, then notify
(00:07:52) rschen7754: is that it for inactive projects?
(00:07:54) TwinsMetsFan: rest: notify, then demote
(00:08:00) TwinsMetsFan: yep
(00:08:07) rschen7754: can we take care of it now, or wait?
(00:08:07) TwinsMetsFan: we are now on #2 finally
(00:08:21) TwinsMetsFan: we'll wait until after the meeting
(00:08:28) TwinsMetsFan: the formal end, that is
(00:08:58) TwinsMetsFan: #2, the redesign of USRD
(00:09:26) TwinsMetsFan: Rschen, i know you had an issue with it
(00:09:53) TwinsMetsFan: or should we save it for a meeting tomorrow night?
(00:10:20) TwinsMetsFan: we did have a Saturday alternate date planned
(00:10:24) rschen7754: what do you mean the redesign?
(00:10:35) TwinsMetsFan: er, structure
(00:10:45) TwinsMetsFan: sorry
(00:10:54) rschen7754: what were the proposed changes?
(00:11:16) TwinsMetsFan: none - the topic is about the changes that happened
(00:11:27) rschen7754: the design looks good
(00:12:12) rschen7754: just as long as the new changes do not take away from each state's WP
(00:12:30) Polaron: The updated version is definitely na improvement. Some kind of generic article structure is definitely needed
(00:12:43) TwinsMetsFan: no, if a state WP exists, then they have full reign over strucutre
(00:13:06) TwinsMetsFan: structure*
(00:13:06) rschen7754: ok and then it shouldnt infringe on the creation of new WPs
(00:13:18) rschen7754: when of course we undo the ban on new ones
(00:13:36) TwinsMetsFan: i don't see why it should infringe
(00:13:37) deepshuck: it's not like you can keep people from making one
(00:13:52) rschen7754: ok good
(00:13:53) TwinsMetsFan: but we can say it's heavily discouraged
(00:13:56) rschen7754: well ya
(00:14:07) rschen7754: if its discouraged then people probably wont do it
(00:14:19) rschen7754: since hey're a) new users who will then listen
(00:14:34) rschen7754: or b) they understand the situation and won't
(00:14:58) deepshuck: or c) they're going to write a shitload of articles
(00:15:20) rschen7754: but we dont know that to begin with
(00:15:56) Scott5114: you know it's possible they may never check out USRD
(00:16:21) TwinsMetsFan: if one gets created, it goes through the process 11 WPs just went through
(00:16:22) Polaron: why don't you just let new proposed projects go though the regular wikiproject council route to see if there is interest
(00:16:22) Scott5114: they might just be "well, hey, California 37 has an article, I could write one about Montana 1"
(00:16:38) Scott5114: and they do so
(00:16:48) rschen7754: tada
(00:16:56) rschen7754: or make our own council?
(00:17:02) deepshuck: "california has a project why not nunavut"
(00:17:16) TwinsMetsFan: wasn't that supposed to be the purpose of the subproject page
(00:17:21) TwinsMetsFan: er, the new purpose
(00:17:28) TwinsMetsFan: half-purpose
(00:17:54) TwinsMetsFan: "Therefore, this project will coordinate the starting of new WikiProjects for states without one and will determine the efficiency of each existing subproject. Contributors may weigh in on which state should be started next and which projects are least efficient/active on WT:USRD/SUB." - WP:USRD
(00:18:25) rschen7754: well... ya
(00:18:30) Scott5114: quick question: does "major junctions" follow the ELG?
(00:18:37) rschen7754: so basically... revamp the sub page
(00:18:45) TwinsMetsFan: yes
(00:18:48) rschen7754: i dont think that was a good idea to create that page
(00:18:51) rschen7754: in hindsight
(00:19:03) rschen7754: it made it easier to create crap projects that would be inactive
(00:19:03) Scott5114: what page, ELG or SUB?
(00:19:04) TwinsMetsFan: no, but the new purpose will make up for it
(00:19:08) rschen7754: i apologize for htat
(00:19:09) Scott5114: oh
(00:19:23) TwinsMetsFan: Major junctions...where's that?
(00:19:38) TwinsMetsFan: Major intersections?
(00:19:40) Polaron: the table?
(00:20:02) deepshuck: oh this is the one I was thinking of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Highland_Park%2C_New_Jersey
(00:20:12) TwinsMetsFan: it follows the ELG if it uses an exit list
(00:20:19) TwinsMetsFan: else, it uses the junction table templates
(00:21:02) TwinsMetsFan: deepshuck: i can't believe that ever existed
(00:21:12) deepshuck: it's mitchazenia
(00:21:24) TwinsMetsFan: ah, that explains it
(00:21:47) Polaron: he created one CT route article that was a copyvio
(00:22:22) deepshuck: was he the guy that uploaded images from state-ends?
(00:22:34) TwinsMetsFan: no, that was the PA vandal
(00:22:41) rschen7754: uggh
(00:22:43) TwinsMetsFan: Albertotineo10
(00:22:48) TwinsMetsFan: and his 500 socks
(00:22:55) deepshuck: yeah him
(00:23:49) TwinsMetsFan: i recall the only reason Mitchazenia joined NYCR was to write an article on Saratoga CR 1345
(00:24:01) TwinsMetsFan: just because it has four digits
(00:25:12) TwinsMetsFan: ok, for formality...
(00:25:21) rschen7754: oh dear
(00:25:41) TwinsMetsFan: the first official USRD meeting has officially concluded. Thanks for coming, everyone!
