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The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Result of the discussion was promote to A-class. --Polaron | Talk 03:58, 5 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

U.S. Route 50 in Nevada

[edit]

U.S. Route 50 in Nevada (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) review

Suggestion: Promote to A-Class
Nominator's comments: Please provide feedback
Nominated by: Dave (talk) 04:09, 22 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
First comment occurred: 05:58, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
Resolved issues from —Scott5114↗ [EXACT CHANGE ONLY] 06:03, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • US 50 serves a cross section of the state: perhaps serves as a cross section? That would mean the route visits many diverse environments across the central part of Nevada. ...serves a cross section would seem to me to be merely saying that US 50 serves traffic headed to places along a cross section of Nevada. Minor distinction, but one worth thinking about nonetheless.
    • The route of US 50 has changed several times through the years. Most people would expect this. Consider dropping this, or else highlight a couple of the major changes the route has underwent. Reserve minor changes to the History section, naturally.
    • Most of modern US 50 was built along the route of the Lincoln Highway, the first transcontinental highway in the United States, and Pony Express, an early attempt at an express mail service. An odd choice to kick off the route description, as it's more historical in tone. Route descriptions can benefit from beginning with a broad survey of the route, but it is your History section's job to detail how the route was shaped by forces of the past.
    • In July 1986 Life magazine published: Life needs to be italicized
    • The name was intended to be a pejorative, but instead, Nevada officials seized on it as a marketing slogan: I know the lead is supposed to summarize the article, but don't just repeat yourself. :P Find another construction that means essentially the same thing to keep readers' interest.
    • The Nevada Department of Transportation, has placed custom highway 50 markers along the route: No comma after NDOT, and "highway 50" isn't right. Either capitalize "Highway" or edit to "U.S. 50" or the like.
    • The Loneliest Road in America - custom sign along the highway is a bit of an amateurish caption. Try something along the lines of "Custom road signs mark US 50 as the Loneliest Road in America." or something. Remember, use a period if it's a complete sentence, otherwise leave it off. Perhaps you can slip in that the sign isn't a standard highway sign somehow.
    • Stateline where US 50 enters Nevada along the shores of Lake Tahoe: Needs a comma after Stateline. Perhaps spell out "Stateline, Nevada", to emphasize that it is an actual town you are referring to and not the political boundary.
    • US 50 Alt: I'm not sure what our standard is for expressing bannered routes. Abbreviating them in prose seems like a bad idea, though. Would suggest a discussion to come up with a guideline for this. At the very least, I think a period should be inserted after Alt to lend more formality to it. (I would also prefer Alternate US 50, but I would guess that's just me.)
    • Friendliest town on the Loneliest Road in America and The Ghost Train of old Ely have some odd capitalization issues going on. Title case would look better if there is no problem with that.
    • The next city is Delta, 162 miles (261 km) to the east. May want clarify with a link and full spelling-out that this is Delta, UT.
    • The Border Inn, on the Nevada/Utah border, has a hotel, gas station and restaurant. Slashes should really only be used to denote concurrencies. When you wish to denote county lines and state lines, use an en dash (–) instead. More on this can be found under "disjunction" in WP:MOSDASH. Also, the political boundary dividing Nevada and Utah from each other is technically a "line" rather than a "border" (some pedant at FAC might ding you for that).
    • Summits and Passes section: Ehhhhhh. I think this should be incorporated into the junction list through use of colspans. Would certainly make it more useful to determine where everything lies in relation to each other. At the very least it needs to be retitled to "Summits and passes" per WP:MOSHEAD.
      • I changed the heading. I've debated how to do this myself. The problem with putting it in the exit list is it will get pretty cluttered, there's about as many summits as there are junction=-). I'll wait and see if others feel the same, and if so make the requested change.
    • Route overlaps: Redundant to the route description and junction list. Nix it.
    • Near modern Fallon, the Lincoln Highway split into two branches, west of Fallon US 50 follows the Pioneer branch, with the Donner branch following modern U.S. Route 50 Alternate. Ach! Comma splice! That punctuation mark after branches should be a semicolon. When you have two sentence clauses that themselves could stand alone as sentences, either split the sentence (if they are more or less independent thoughts) or use a semicolon (if they're more closely related, as they are here.)
    • The original Lincoln highway followed what is now US 93 to the ghost town of Schellbourne, from there it followed a dirt road to Utah. Another comma splice. Also, "Lincoln Highway" is the road's proper name; both words should be capitalized.
    • Utah preferred the Victory was it was a shorter, more direct route, that only directed traffic for Northern California out of the state. Remove the comma after "route".
    • The Lincoln Highway was re-routed to Salt Lake via what is now US 93, US 93 Alt. and I-80 in Utah, at the time US 50 also used this alignment. "Salt Lake" for Salt Lake City seems a bit colloquial—might conjure up images for foreigners of people flocking to a lake as some kind of souped up recreation area or something. The comma after Utah either needs to be changed into a period. Baring that, you could perhaps put the US 50 clause into parenthesis.
    • Between Ely and Green River, Utah US 50 passed through Salt Lake City until 1955. Er, what? What does Salt Lake City have to do with US 50 in NV? If noting US 50 passed through SLC is important, just note it. You don't really need to tell the reader it passed through SLC after Ely but before Green River. Unless you're afraid that people will think it went from Ely to Green River and then backtracked to Salt Lake City before heading to Colorado. :)
    • From there the highway was co-routed: Neologism-ish? Consider sticking with a kosher word such as concurrency or overlap or some such. (See the concurrency article for ideas!)
    • Between Austin and Fallon US 50 and Lincoln Highway was changed to bypass steep grades and sharp curves over Carroll Summit; the original route is now State Route 722. This change occurred around 1967. First off, comma after Fallon. "US 50 and Lincoln Highway was changed" doesn't really agree. Either change to "were" or do something like "US 50 (Lincoln Highway)". Was Lincoln Highway still an active designation at this time? If not, just toss any mention of it. Combine this into one sentence like "...US 50 was changed around 1967 to bypass...". Also, "changed" is a bit vague-sounding—perhaps "rerouted" or "improved" would work better?
  • All in all this article shows promise. The problems with it are merely technical...some minor polishing needs to be applied but the basic article appears sound to me. Just apply that shine and I think this article should have no problem passing. —Scott5114↗ [EXACT CHANGE ONLY] 05:59, 26 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Resolved issues from --LJ (talk) 12:36, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • The Nevada portion crosses the center of state and was designated the Loneliest Road in America by Life magazine in July 1986. "the" in "the Loneliest Road in America" should probably be capitalized and bolded as the official name (according to the picture of the sign). Make sure the capitalization of "The" is consistent throughout the article. Also, the way this sentence reads makes it sound like Life Magazine officially designated the highway's name, not Nevada officials. Try rewriting this to say "...was referred to as The Loneliest Road..." or something similar.
      • but instead, Nevada officials seized on it as a marketing slogan. The phrase "seized on it" sounds awkward. Consider replacing with "embraced it", or remove "on" from the phrase.
      • The whole Loneliest Road section seems out of place where it is located under the Route description, as it really isn't providing a description of the route itself but rather the experience of driving the route. (Does that make sense?) I would suggest (a) moving it to the end of the History section, or (b) separating this into a separate section before or after the History section.
        • I've tried a few placements. No matter where I put it, it seems to stick out. However, I defend that this section needs to be there, and needs to be prominent. This is what makes this road notable to non-roadgeeks. (heck, roadgeeks too, what other highway can you get government issued proof of clinching=-) ). Anyways, I've consolidated many scattered sentences about Lincoln Highway and Lonliest road in to the dedicated sections. Please review and advise if you still have issues.Dave (talk) 03:28, 27 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • Is there a source (or statute) for the Nevada Legislature officially designating The Loneliest Road? If so, can a date of this designation be pinpointed?
        • Nevada DOT mentions the name was authorized by the state in the scenic byways section of the website. But a search of the legislatures website comes up with zilch (actually a ton of hits, but all garbage). So I'm wondering if the legislature authorized Nevada DOT to name highways in general, but not this one specifically. I've re-worded to support what the source I found read.
      • There are only three small towns, Austin, Eureka and Ely, in the stretch of highway between Fallon and Delta, Utah, a span of 409 miles (658 km),[5] roughly the same distance between Boston, Massachusetts and Baltimore, Maryland[6] or between Paris, France and Zürich, Switzerland. Comma overload! Try: "Austin, Eureka and Ely are the only small towns along the 409-mile (658 km) stretch of highway between Fallon and Delta, Utah, or roughly the distance between Boston, Massachusetts and Baltimore, Maryland or between Paris, France and Zürich, Switzerland." I'd probably also just use one distance comparison.
        • I've changed the wording, but kept both comparisons. Is ok now? I like having both continents represented for some weird reason.
      • Visitors can mail the completed passport with all the locations stamped and receive a certificate, signed by the Governor, certifying they "survived" the Loneliest Road in America. Revise to be less wordy: "Visitors can mail-in the completed passport to receive a certificate...".
      • In the 20 years that have passed since this article... Use "since the article was published"
      • At Silver Springs the highway splits with the main route and U.S. Route 50 Alternate. Comma after Silver Springs. The end might read better as "U.S. Route 50 Alternate splits from the main route."
      • Both branches are sometimes called the loneliest road, although the official designation ends at Fernley, which is along the alternate branch. Capitalization of "The Loneliest Road" might be in order here. Also, revise to "...ends at Fernley along the alternate branch."
      • At the junction...the Lincoln Highway split into 2 branches Single-digit numbers should be spelled out in prose.
      • I agree with above comment about abbreviation of "Alt." and preferred use of "US 50 Alternate".
      • Sand Mountain, a 600 feet (180 m) sand dune. English units should be in adjective form.
      • The next town after Fallon is single building settlement of Middlegate... Needs "the" after "is".
      • After Fallon, US 50 starts to cross many geographical instances of the Basin and Range construct. Move "geographical" to before "Basin".
      • These routes proceed northeast towards Salt Lake City... Should this be written as past tense since the Pony Express, Lincoln Highway and SR 2 are no longer active?
      • There are only 2 gas stations along this stretch. Spell-out the number again.
      • Nevada – Utah border Spaces around en dash should probably be removed.
      • Most of US 50 was derived from Nevada State Route 2, the state designation for the Lincoln Highway, appearing on Nevada Highway maps at least since 1919. Use "State Route 2" per USRD naming conventions. Also, try "...Highway, which has appeared on Nevada Highway maps since at least 1919."
      • The route of the Lincoln highway would direct travelers destined for both southern and northern California on a direct route towards central Nevada, along a route perceived by Utah to be expensive to build, with little benefit for the state. This sentence repeats the words "direct" and "route" a lot, and also seems like it runs on. Suggest revising to create two separate sentences or otherwise join together the thoughts with fewer commas.
      • The original designation for US 50 from Carson City to Ely was Route 2. Saying the original designation from Carson City to Ely was Route 2 conflicts with earlier sentences stating Route 2A existed from Carson City to west of Fallon.
    Overall, I think this is a great article with good content. Just some minor stuff to work on and probably another copy edit, and this should do quite well. Good Luck! --Ljthefro (talk) 10:16, 26 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you for the thorough review. As I said above, make sure Rschen gives you credit for this. =-). I have addressed your concerns, please advise if you still have concerns. Dave (talk) 03:28, 27 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comments: More comments after Dave's edits above:
    Further discussion on article improvements --LJ (talk) 03:45, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • The Nevada portion crosses the center of state and was named the The Loneliest Road in America by Life magazine in July 1986. You have an extra "the" there.
      • By comparison, this similar to the distance between Boston, Massachusetts and Baltimore, Maryland or between Paris, France and Zürich, Switzerland. The first part of this sentence is missing something. Maybe "this is similar" or "this distance is similar". The comparison reads much better as two sentences.
      • The second paragraph in The Loneliest Road section, with the added references to White Pine County, flows really well now.
      • In the Major intersections table, the Junctions on current routing along SR 529/530 until freeway bypass is finished notes don't seem to be necessary.
      • I don't know... I still feel a little weird with the placement of "The Loneliest Road in America" section. The first three sentence of its first paragraph seem to be giving a route description overview, while the remainder is setting up The Loneliest Road. I agree with you that the section is needed and should be prominent. What do you think about this: Take those first three sentences of the first paragraph and use them as a mini-lead to the route description; integrate the remainder of the paragraph into the next paragraph; make The Loneliest Road section into a top-level header and present it prior to the route description. This makes the whole section stand out prominently without being awkward under the route description. It would be a deviation from the normal section progression of USRD articles, but I think it would flow a bit more naturally overall.
      • Everything else seems good. There wasn't anything else I noticed. Let me know what you think about moving that section. --Ljthefro (talk) 10:47, 27 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • I have made the minor changes you've requested. I will play with moving the Loneliest Road section later, as this will take some time. In the interim, what is your opinion on Scott's suggestion that the Summits table be merged with the Major intersections table? I was initially skeptical, but am warming to the idea.Dave (talk) 22:18, 27 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • No rush, of course. If you don't want to move the section, or don't like it once you do try moving it, it's no big deal. Just my opinion on it.
          • As to the summits/passes table: On the one hand, it is an unusual section to see in a road article. However, it being separated out does emphasize the fact that route of US 50 in Nevada ascends several mountain passes/summits. Integrating it into the junction list would remove that emphasis, but at the same time would make it easier to see where these passes are in relation to the junctions. (I'm not aware of any road articles listing summits/passes in the junction list though. There can't be that many road articles with this high a number of summits and passes anyway.) To be honest, I can go either way on it. --Ljthefro (talk) 02:25, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • It's not that I don't want to move it. It's that I've tried it in a few locations and nothing seems to fit. I think the bigger problem is the Stephen King paragraph doesn't flow with the rest of the article. I just tried moving the paragraph to be in the center of the section, rather than the end. I'll let this sit for a while and see how it goes. Dave (talk) 04:59, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • Now that you mention it, that Stephen King section is probably what has been sticking out to me. The revision I just read seems to flow better, but it's still a bit odd. Short of moving it to a separate "The Loneliest Road in popular culture" section, I'm not sure what else you can do. I like the inclusion of it, though. It provides an instant and definite boost to the notability of the highway that most readers (roadgeeks and non-road buffs alike) would find interesting--I sure didn't know about the King novel before reading in a previous version of the article! --LJ (talk) 06:13, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • I think you've done a good job working on this, Dave, so I'm not going to hold up this review. This Stephen King paragraph issue is a tricky thing to balance out. See if you can come up with an elegant solution before nominating for FA. --LJ (talk) 03:41, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I support nomination for A-Class! Good job Dave! --LJ (talk) 03:45, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comments: Here are my suggestions,
    Resolved issues from  — master sonT - C 14:04, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • In the lead, You haveThe route follows a historic corridor, first used for the Pony Express, and later for the Lincoln Highway. I would like to suggest maybe The route follows a historic corridor that was used first for the Pony Express and later the Lincoln Highway. Both work, but the latter seems to mesh better for me.
      • Just east of Middlegate is a shoe tree and the turnoff for Berlin-Ichthyosaur State Park, a preserved ghost town surrounded by dinosaur remains. - A shoe tree? Is that something that's permanent? I find that amusing, but I'm sure it gets cleaned up - or is it a legendary thing which is worth mentioning? No offense :D
    It's become quite the phenomenon. I don't know who would clean it, it's in the middle of nowhere. Here's one pic [1] Just do a search of Nevada Shoe Tree on Flickr, there's hundreds of pics of it out there. You can even tell which photos are older by how many shoes. I've debated including a pic of it, but the article is pretty much pictured out, and my pics of it suck. So I'd have to convince somebody on flickr to cc license theirs.Dave (talk) 02:45, 3 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    I found a San Francisco Chronicle article that discusses it, and expanded the section accordingly.
      • Driving east, Ely is the last city along US 50 in Nevada. The road is driving? Perhaps we can drop the Driving east part.
      • In the Summits table - are the two notes from the same citation as the table itself? (Middlegate and Conners Pass) I would assume so because of what the source is, but it might be a bit confusing to someone not looking too hard.
      • Reference 38 - Please separate "Googlemaps".
      • For the Google maps references, you reference the cartographer TeleAtlas only on the first occurence (#3), Should we not keep the citations consistent throughout?
    Changed all citations to Google Maps to use the cite map template instead of the cite web template. That should have fixed this.
      • References 35 and 41 probably would be best served as a note above this section (There is code for setting up notes separately from references available to use, see WP:REFGROUP)
    Done, however placed in the same section (i.e. didn't list the grouped references with the rest. Please advise if this is what you had in mind.
      • Be Careful of multiple links to pages in the Article prose, I did an examination of the article using AWB and found several instances multiple wikilinks to a page (such as Great Basin National Park and Salt Lake City, Utah. DISCLAIMER: Of course the Exit list, Major Cities box and Routebox are excluded.;)
    I think I got them all, any idea when AWB will be available for the mac?=-)
      • The Notes Column of both tables should have its cells added even if no notes are present.
      • I did a dead link check on the article using the toolserver, turned out good.
    • Overall, an excellent write. The lead summarizes the article well, getting the reader hooked, then the sections spill all of the beans. The requests above are technical in nature, the prose is good otherwise.  — master sonT - C 01:47, 3 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you for the review. I will start implementing your suggestions and advise when done.
    I have fixed all the errors you found and where your suggestion was more than an error I have commented above. Please advise if you have additional concerns. Dave (talk) 04:25, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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