Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College baseball/Archive 1

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Thanks and welcome

Thanks to everyone who joins. We're just getting started here with this project, unfortunately right as the season is ending. But hopefully we can work to get some accepted standards established before the beginning of next season. Right now I think the most important things we need to do are establish standards for the College World Series pages and NCAA Tournament pages. Once the standards are established we can get to work on inputting all the info.

I'd like this to be a democratic Wikiproject. If you have any ideas then please by all means voice them! Also, this is my first time starting a Wikiproject so bear with me. I could use all the help I could get. Thanks again! Seancp 00:16, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

ACC Baseball Coaches Template Created

Template:ACC baseball coaches - Jober14 22:00, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Cool thanks! I went ahead and added it to the pages of the 5 coaches that already have articles. Seancp 22:29, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Administrative Templates

Does anyone know how to create administrative templates, much like Wikiproject College football has (ex: Wikipedia:WikiProject College football/Templates)??? I know how to do basic templates but their templates add pages into certain categories and what not. That would be helpful for organization. At the very least we need a basic template that marks the talk page of each college baseball related page so that we can get a good idea of what is already created, etc. Thanks for any input. Seancp 22:36, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I think this is you're talking about... (please keep in mind I just threw this together pretty much by watering down Baseball WikiProject's goods) Template:College-baseball-WikiProject. Along with that I created an Assessment page that is a replica of WP:Baseball's. I know the assessment stuff is a lot more than we need (or can handle) right now, but I just put it there for the heck of it. Hopefully at least articles can be tagged with the template now (with importance and class, etc). Is that what you kind of wanted? And/or what else were you thinking of? Oughgh 05:03, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Season/Schedule templates

Does anyone have any interest in creating a game log before next season to stay updated with each team's schedule and record? What I mean is that each MLB team has a page for the current season that lists their schedule, and then each game's winning and losing pitcher, etc, in a collapsible format. (For example, see 2007 Boston Red Sox season, in the game log section) Each team could have an editor assigned to stay on top of that school's season, similar to MLB - for the major conferences/teams, or wherever there is demand, or whatever.

Any thoughts or interest in doing something like this? Oughgh 04:11, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I think that's a fine idea but we have to remember that college baseball isn't as popular as MLB, or college basketball or college football, and thus Wikipedia participation is going to be less. I think that if someone is willing to create and maintain a season page for their favorite team then by all means go for it, but we shouldn't create season pages for every team because then we'll just have a bunch of stubs. I fully intend on doing a season page for LSU next season, so I'm willing to help with setting up a template for the schedule. But no one should feel pressured to create a season page for every college baseball team. (I know that's not what your comment what saying, but I just wanted to clarify things). Seancp 13:48, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
I'll do it for Clemson - Jober14 13:49, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
I was looking at the Red Sox page you linked to and I got to thinking, why don't we just take the template they use and adapt it to college baseball? For example, we could keep the "#", "Date" and "Opponent" columns, add a column for "Site/Stadium" (since college teams regularly play neutral field games, remove the "Win", "Loss", and "Save" columns since college pitchers usually aren't that famous, keep "Attendance" columns, and change the "Record" column to "Overall Record" and add a second one for "Conference Record". We could also add a "Recap" column that links to the game recap article on the teams web site. Thoughts, comments? Seancp 14:12, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
I am a fan of the way wiki does these game logs - it combines a lot of the main info into a small amount of space. Personally, I'm a fan of the W/L/S pitchers, just because as a fan, I like to know who's starting and who's doing well for the team, even if they're not "famous" in the broad sense of the term. Their names wouldn't have to be wikilinked or anything. But it's not a make-or-break issue at all. And I definitely didn't mean for us to cover all the teams by any means - only wherever we have the resources/desires to do so. I just like the way wiki does it for MLB, and thought we could do something similar here. I'm more than happy to make a page for Vandy and keeping the game log updated if it seems like others might do the same for other schools. And yes, I agree with your other suggestions. Oughgh 20:13, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
I copied the 2007 Red Sox game log to a sandbox page for us to tinker with. Check it out at: Wikipedia:WikiProject College baseball/GameLog. I'll try to work on it during the CWS games this weekend. If you wanna tinker with it before hand then by all means please do! Seancp 20:34, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
I just did a little work on it breaking the season into parts, so instead of April, May, June, etc..we have "Regular Season," "Conference Tournament," Regionals," "Super Regionals," and "College World Series." What do you think? Seancp 20:38, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
HA! You beat me to it. I was working on creating one for Vandy's past season just as a test. 2007 Vanderbilt Commodores baseball game log is a work in progress as well, and it would eventually then be implemented in a full Vanderbilt Commodores baseball article. I like the idea of how you break the season into different groupings... seems the most logical. Oughgh 21:24, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Also, with only 56 regular season games, I don't think we need to break it up by month like the MLB season articles do. Seancp 14:12, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
I think its very important we include game location and conference record in this template. - Jober14 13:50, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
I did a little more work with the season template. I know Oughgh wanted to keep the Win, Loss and Save columns but I couldn't get them all to fit when data was entered into the table. It made it awkward and unsightly. Anyway, check it out. I populated it with data from LSU's first four games of the 2007 season. Wikipedia:WikiProject College baseball/GameLog If anyone can get the Win/Loss/Save colums to fit without adversely affecting the table then go for it. But all the pitcher information is easily available when you click on the "Recap" link. What do you guys think so far? Oughgh has done some good work with his so far too: 2007 Vanderbilt Commodores baseball game log. If anything we can remove a column like "attendance" to make room for the Win/Loss/Save columns. That might make the data fit nicer. And attendance info is available if you click on the "Recap" link. Seancp 15:49, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
I added some test data under the "Conference Tournament" heading to show you want I mean about the data being awkward and unsightly with the Win/Loss/Save columns in it. Check it out: Wikipedia:WikiProject College baseball/GameLog
I've done some tinkering with my work in progress, and I've gotten the pitchers to fit for the most part. One thing you can do is change the overall width (in the first line of code) from 80% to 90 or even 100% - that'll make it a bit wider. A couple of the lines are 2 rows tall I know, but that's usually because the stadium or school names are too long. It doesn't look too terrible in my opinion. And yes, I know that I don't have the recap column in there yet - but instead of having a link to say "LSUtigers.com" or "VUcommodores.com" in it every single time, why not just link to the game number in the first column or something? Oughgh 20:16, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
Ahh, linking the game number is an excellent idea and will save a ton of space! Seancp 21:39, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
Alright, I think my version is complete. Everything fits without the rows looking ugly, game recaps are linked properly, all the data is present, etc. If anyone wants to look at it or give me any more suggestions, please do so. Otherwise it should work well as the format for anyone that wishes to game a game log for their team next season. Oughgh 06:07, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Is this something that should be included on a schools main baseball page (Clemson Tigers baseball), or should we create a new page for each season? (2007 Clemson Tigers baseball), Also, what about past seasons? are we going to expect this chart be recreated for each season? It would be really interesting, but would take an extreme amount of effort to create. If only someone could come up with a way to quickly paste information into wiki-format tables using Excel or something - Jober14 16:34, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
I don't think this needs to be created for past season unless someone has a great desire to do so. I might do it for each of LSU's national championship seasons. But from here on out, I don't see why we couldn't do this for the teams we each follow. Seancp 16:58, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Agreed on the no to past seasons - this took me several hours to do for the first season for Vandy, and I don't really think many people would care about all that old data. I can't fathom a way that you could copy the data from excel into wiki, but there are lots of people smarter than me out there. As for which page to put it on, I'm not sure. MLB puts the game logs on a page for that specific season - but that's because a general page like Boston Red Sox is also very long (and after looking at your Clemson Tigers baseball page, it's very long as well, due to lots of tables, but that's another issue). But what other information could be put on a season-specific page, other than perhaps an up-to-date conference standings listing like MLB uses? Any thoughts?
We have a few options available. If the general baseball article (i.e. Clemson Tigers baseball) is short enough, it could be included in it. Actually, I think FAU Owls baseball has it like that. Or we could create a page for each season, i.e. 2007 LSU Tigers baseball team. Or we could create a grouping, i.e. LSU Tigers baseball, 2000-2009 or LSU Tigers baseball under Skip Bertman. I personally don't like the grouping by head coach thing, but a lot of people at Wikiproject College football do it that way. Actually some in WP:CF do it that way, and some do it by years. I do it by years, for example: LSU Tigers football, 1900-1909 Any other ideas? Seancp 17:27, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
My bad, looks like FAU Owls has single season pages. Seancp 17:28, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Conference Tournament Pages/Templates

I think we should create pages for conference tournaments. Much in the same way the college world series pages are done. I'll be more than willing to get started on the ACC pages asap if people think this is a good idea. I do have a couple of questions/points I'd like for yall to think about:

  • Second, we need a hybrid template for the brackets. Template:CWSBracket works for most conferences with an 8-Team Double Elimination format. However, at the end of the Tournament there is no 3-Game series. Template:8Team-DoubleElimin-Bracket does not allow for seeding. I don't know how to edit/create these to make it into what we would need.
  • Third, the ACC has switched to a 2, 4-Team-Round Robin format where the two "pool play" winners play each other for the championship, which Template:4TeamRR might work for. I know other conferences use this format too.

So what do yall think? Is this worthy of adding to our project? - Jober14 16:36, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely! I was actually thinking about that when the SEC tourney was going on and it slipped my mind once this WikiProject was created. I personally would say that if there is going to be a bracket and a listing of the all-tournament team, etc, then each year should have a separate page, just like for the CWS. Otherwise after a couple years the page would get quite long. I will take a look into the brackets to see if I can use my limited knowledge of coding to create our needed brackets. And yes, the template you mentioned would be great (and not difficult to create). Oughgh 16:52, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
I did some work on the SEC Baseball Tournament page a while back. I also did a few individual tourneys as well (see the yearly template on the SEC Baseball Tournament page). I think its a great idea and would love to see as many conference tourney's documented as possible. Feel free to use the SEC as a starting point. I'm sure it could use some tweaking, though. Seancp 16:54, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
I completely forgot there was indeed a page for the SEC Tourneys - my bad. Anyway, I just created Template:SECBracket for your 2nd bullet point above - it's basically the same as the CWSBracket, minus the extra 2 games at the end. I edited the 2007 SEC Baseball Tournament page to show the change. I called it SECBracket just for ease of use, but it can be used for another other conference tourneys that use the same bracket. As for the round robin pool... I have no idea how to implement that graphically in a bracket form. Any ideas? Oughgh 17:49, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
If you look at the page for the 1979 SEC Baseball Tournament you can see the bracket is messed up because we don't currently have a four team double elimination template. I put that on the main project page in the requests section. I also put in a request for a 6 team double elimination brack for NCAA tourney from the late 70's until 1998. Does anyone know how to make those? If so that would be an enormous help! Also, check out the 1992 SEC Baseball Tournament page. You'll see the bracket is incomplete. This is a result of the NCAA and SEC using a very convuluted tournament format. It's pretty complex and I don't think we will be able to get it to display properly on Wikipedia. Some of the older College World Series used this same type of bracket. I can post a link to show you graphical representations but I'm at work now and will have to wait until I get home. Seancp 18:11, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
I saw the 1979 page already, and I'm already working on it. Learning as I'm going though, hopefully I'll figure it out. And I figured you just didn't finish editing the 1992 article, I'll be interested to see how it actually is supposed to look! I'll also have to look up the 6-team format to see if I can get anwhere on that one. At least I have the one for the current SEC format done and I've updated all the tourney pages to use it. Oughgh 19:04, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
From about 1950 until 1987, the College World Series used a pretty complex bracket format. Check out the official 2007 NCAA record book: http://www.ncaa.org/library/records/baseball/college_world_series_records_book/2007_cws_records.pdf. (By the way, its an EXCELLENT resource for all of us here at this wikiproject. Anyway, towards the end they have graphical representations of every college world series bracket ever. The convoluted brackets start at about page 242. You'll notice that they used the same format from 1950 until 1987. If we could get a template for that then it would be great...but it seems pretty difficult. Seancp 19:12, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Template:4Team2ElimBracket created, 1979 SEC Baseball Tournament updated. That's how it's supposed to look right? I'll take a look at that link to see where to go next. Oughgh 19:53, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Thanks! It looks perfect!!! Seancp 19:55, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
To Jober- I don't know if this helps or not, but the first round of the soccer world cup is round robin...maybe that could give you an idea on how to do the ACC tournament bracket. See: 2006 FIFA World Cup Seancp 20:18, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Template:ACCRR has been created for the round-robin ACC Tourneys. But I realize now that Jober already has that page pretty much done. We can either use that or the new template which unifies things and cleans up the seeds. Oughgh 21:29, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Thanks! I really like how that cleans it up. I was having to use 2 different templates before. - Jober14 03:02, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
The 2007 ACC Tourney page looks great! Glad the template helped - at the least, it cleaned up the seeds and hopefully will make it easier for next year. I'll take a look at trying to make the 6-team double-elim bracket tomorrow. Oughgh 06:05, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
Here's a challenge, I need this bracket for the 2005 ACC Baseball Tournament - Jober14 11:33, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
I see what you did for that page - that looks much better than anything I could ever make without splitting it up, and it makes more sense that way anyway. I'll see if I can update the 8-team bracket to make it and the 2004 ACC Baseball Tournament page look a lot better. Keep up the great work! Oughgh 18:42, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, when the ACC was 9 (then 11) members, they used a true double elimination bracket where the losers bracket winner and the winners bracket winner didn't meet up until the very end. The CWS uses what is esentially two 4-team double elimination brackets with a best-of-three between the two sides. Some conferences (like the SEC use this method but have a one-game winner-take-all match at the end). Other conferences might still be using the old-school true 8-team double elimination bracket (although I've been too busy to check). So to save time, if you could just upgrade the 8-team-DE bracket bring it on par with the SEC and CWS bracket visually, then that would work greatly. Jober14 19:24, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Holy crap...I just realized that Template:8Team-DoubleElimin-Bracket is the same format that the CWS used from 1950-1987. Oughgh if you could get it looking similar to the current CWS template then we could get to work on documenting the brackets from older CWS's. Some older SEC tourneys used that format too. Seancp 18:53, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

New Brackets Thread

The last one was getting a little bit long. I have a few comments.

  • I personally don't think it's necessary to create a separate bracket template just for the ACC Tourneys that had play-in games... listing the play-in games separately explains why the bracket is complicated, and the templates would be pretty difficult to make, especially since the formats very used only very rarely. If it's really desired though, I'll see what I can do.
I agree, we'll stick with the play-in format I created for 2005 ACC Baseball Tournament and 2004 ACC Baseball Tournament Jober14 19:50, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Template:6Team2ElimBracket is almost done. For some reason 3 of the rows are too large, and I don't know why. But perhaps User:Seancp, you could try it out on one of the old NCAA tourney pages and report back to see how it works? Once I figure out how to fix the template, the tourney page will update automatically to look better. BTW, I presume that you wanted seeds in that bracket, right?
  • RE the 8-team double-elim bracket... This is a pure standard double-elimination bracket, correct? Just like the current template, only with lines drawn in, and with seeds included as well, correct? I should be able to crank that one out today or tomorrow if that's clarified.
Yes, but I think one game might be missing toward the finale, I don't really know how to describe it, but if you look Here you will find a perfect example of it (minus the play-in game) Jober14 19:50, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
  • I changed some of the old CWS pages to use the Template:SECBracket since they only have one championship game and that cleans it up. I also noticed some of the older pages used the 3 spots in the championship match of the CWSBracket to list the runs/hits/errors box score (with a short note above the bracket explaining it). Do we want to do that for all the old CWS's, or now that we have an updated bracket, just switch them all to the SECBracket template and ditch the hits/errors columns? Either way, it should be standard for all the pages.
  • Unfortunately, I can't get Seancp's link to all the CWS records to work. Not sure if the file itself is corrupted, or it's my bad connection, or what.

Any thoughts or suggestions? I'm starting to get a hang of these bracket templates, so feel free to keep sending requests. I can only do one at a time though :) Oughgh 19:25, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

True 8 Team Double Elimination

Alright guys, sorry this took so long - I'm hoping I didn't screw up again. Template:8Team2ElimBracket has been created. I understand that normally the loser's bracket is shifted to the right by 1 round, but that would make the bracket too wide to fit well on the screen... so it's directly underneath the winner's bracket. I hope that's not a huge deal... See the template's talk page - the code should be organized well enough to figure out how to use the template properly. Oh, and I updated the 2004 ACC Baseball Tournament page to demonstrate use of this bracket. Hope this works! Oughgh 21:25, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

SEC baseball parks template

I just created Template:SEC baseball parks and added it to the bottom of all the SEC parks' pages. Is this helpful at all? I'd be glad to do it for some of the other major conferences as well if anyone thinks it's a good idea. Oughgh 20:49, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Excellent job. I think its a great idea. I'd love to see it for at least the major conferences (Big 12, Pac 10, Big 10, etc). I'll be happy to help but the rest of the weekend is shot for me....maybe next week. Seancp 22:56, 30 June 2007 (UTC)