File talk:Church Army Chapel pews 1965.jpg

Hangon

Fair use rationale: It is necessary to compare (a) how the building was used from May 1965 with a west-end altar (this image) with (b) how the space in the 1965 building made a central altar the most appropriate solution (other images and explanation on Church Army Chapel, Blackheath). No other image of pews and altar from this date has been made available to us with permission to publish on the Church Army Chapel, Blackheath page. This information is pertinent and urgent at present, as the building may be on appeal for Grade II statutory listing, and the relative importance or unimportance of original furnishings of a listed building is part of the listing criteria in the UK. We will not immediately lose the building if it is not listed - in fact the present owners have done their best to keep it - but it is showing signs of gradual deterioration, some of which deterioration may be halted if it were listed.

Permission: Letter dated 4th August 2009 from Pat Lee (archivist) and James Archer (Central Services Director), Church Army, Marlowe House, 109 Station Road, Sidcup, Kent DA15 7AD. Tel: 020 8309 9991 email: info@churcharmy.org.uk. The letter contains the postscript: "I give permission for the above photocopied extracts in respect of Church Army Chapel, Blackheath, including the photograph of the College Chapel shown in the June 1965 Church Army Review, to be used on the Wikipedia page. (signed) James Archer, Central Services Director."

Administrator: please would you kindly contact me on my talk page to let me know the email address where I can send a scan of the above permissions letter from the copyright holder, as I can't find that address on Wikipedia. Also, if the fair use rationale needs the right licence template to go with it, please would you tell me which template, as I can't find that either. Thank you.--Storye book (talk) 10:26, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Permission to use the picture on Wikipedia will not save the image from deletion. We need to see a free license such as creative commons CC-BY-SA, or CC-0 if no attribution is required. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 13:07, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

• Update: a scan of the copyright permissions letter from the copyright owner was emailed to Wikipedia 13 August 20009; an expanded fair use rationale was added to the image filepage on 13 August 2009. Thank you Graeme for kindly helping with this matter so far. --Storye book (talk) 16:17, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Why the image is not replaceable at all

You can't bring back the past: The whole point of the image is to demonstrate the 1965 pews and altar (removable fittings) which no longer exist because the chapel is no longer used for worship: it was sold to a school in the early 1990s. Therefore it is not possible to go and take a new photograph now. A video showing what the interior of the chapel looks like currently as of August 2009 is here.

Why we need to illustrate the past: The point of the image is to show the original fittings, i.e. the 1965 fittings put in when the building was built in 1965. Only one photograph has been found, and that is this photograph sent to me by the Church Army archivist. We need this picture to illustrate that the original fittings were inappopriate and not part of the architect's design and not as described in the opening programme as published by the Church Army in 1965. It matters that the fittings may be understood to be inappropriate so that the current building may be judged to be complete even though these fittings are now missing.

We have permission to use the image: The archivist sent a letter with the image, giving permission for the photograph to be published on the Church Army Chapel, Blackheath page, and that is the permission letter which was forwarded to Wikipedia and acknowledged on the image filepage.--Storye book (talk) 18:49, 31 August 2009 (UTC)