Talk:Aging of the United States

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A fact from Aging of the United States appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 23 August 2021 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that President Theodore Roosevelt described the declining birthrate of the United States as a form of "race suicide", citing a term coined by eugenicist Edward Alsworth Ross?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2021/August. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Aging of the United States.

Wikipedia

Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Z1720 (talk) 22:28, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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... that President Theodore Roosevelt described the aging of the United States as a form of "race suicide"?
- ALT1:... that during the COVID-19 pandemic, the birth rate in the United States dropped to below replacement levels for the first time in history?
- ALT2:... that President Theodore Roosevelt described the declining birthrate of the United States as a form of "race suicide", citing a term coined by eugenicist Edward Alsworth Ross?

Created by Mover of molehills (talk). Self-nominated at 00:35, 12 July 2021 (UTC).[reply]

Oppose because it is not true. The United States's fertility rate, with the exception of a brief boom in the mid-2000s has been below replacement levels for decades. funplussmart (talk) 17:34, 18 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Funplussmart: Thank you for clearing that up, and for making the correction in the article. Do you think that the main hook could still be valid, though? Mover of molehills (talk) 12:25, 19 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No opinion on notability of the article, I will review according to DYK rules. Date (just) in time, length fine and hook is sourced and inlinely cited. However @Mover of molehills: this can't proceed with the merge tag on it. QPQ is not needed as this is Mover's first nomination. No close paraphrasing. Please ping me once that merge discussion is concluded and I can pass this. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 08:52, 27 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I don't love ALT0 actually. For one thing it's not all that interesting on its own, for another it is "an alarmist term in eugenics" which is...well it's about as racist as it sounds. Also, the newspaper article cited is actually misleading, and the person who made the article mistakenly attributed Roosevelt's speech to 1900. In reality, the speech quoted was delivered in 1906, I assume the date of 1900 refers to the birth rate statistic. This doesn't mean we can't have it in a hook, but it ought to have a bit more context as that fixes all of those issues imo. I'm proposing ALT2 for this. I have also edited the article to correct the date. BuySomeApples (talk) 03:37, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@BuySomeApples: Thank you, I think that's a good point. I like Alt2 as well. Additionally, @The C of E: I did complete the merge, so let me know when you're ready to continue with the nomination. Mover of molehills (talk) 14:59, 1 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Funplussmart: Do you have any more comments? Mover of molehills (talk) 16:31, 4 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I do not like ALT0 or because due to it being not very remarkable and seems to support racism and eugenics. I am neutral regarding ALT2 as it has added context. funplussmart (talk) 20:54, 4 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Just a comment that the main hook and ALT2 needs to specify with President Roosevelt? Franklin of Theodore? You have linked to Theodore Roosevelt; so I guess it should specify the first name too. It might confuse some readers. Thanks! – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 15:29, 14 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Good catch @Kavyansh.Singh:, I fixed that in both hooks. @Mover of molehills: what do you think about the different hooks? BuySomeApples (talk) 04:40, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@BuySomeApples: I think Alt2 looks good! After the review process, I'm similarly lukewarm about the other hooks. Mover of molehills (talk) 12:25, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@The C of E: Now that the merger has been completed, would you mind giving this nom another look? BuySomeApples (talk) 05:47, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

OK, continuing as above. There's no close paraphrasing. As for the hook, I'm happy to pass the original but ALT2 is acceptable if the promoter feels context is needed. Good to go. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 07:46, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Promoted ALT2 to T:DYK/P2 Z1720 (talk) 22:28, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merge of Aging in the American workforce into Aging of the United States[edit]

The two articles describe essentially the same subject. Title of the merge to article would be consistent with articles describing the phenomenon elsewhere. funplussmart (talk) 17:16, 18 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support, I didn't know the original article existed. @Funplussmart: how many votes do we need before we can go through with the merge? Mover of molehills (talk) 12:12, 27 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support: Aging in the American workforce is a weird title to me as well. Merging it makes a lot more sense. BappleBusiness (talk) 01:50, 30 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]