Talk:Battle of Carteia

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Requested move 8 April 2020[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

It was proposed in this section that multiple pages be renamed and moved.

result:
Moved. See no formal opposition below, so this request is granted. Kudos to editors for your input, and Happy Publishing! (nac by page mover) P.I. Ellsworth ed. ^put'r there 12:49, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Links: current log • target log

This is template {{subst:Requested move/end}}

– As the lead says, the battle won by Lucius Marcius Septimus is more appropriately called the "Battle of Carteia", as "Guadalquivir" is very anachronistic; it was the "Baetis" in Roman times. Couldn't find either the present or the proposed title in ngrams (or Battle of the Baetis, for that matter). There's currently another entry at "Battle of Carteia", a naval battle that occurred about the same time, but according to our article, it involved eight ships on one side and nine on the other, so presumably far fewer combatants than the land battle, which included 10,700 men on the Carthaginian side alone. I'd say that the naval battle was much less important, since it seems to have resulted in the loss of only three ships on the Carthaginian side, and it's not clear that Adherbal's defeat had any major consequences. But I thought it best to ask for opinions before moving the two articles. Perhaps a better title could be proposed for one or both. P Aculeius (talk) 15:44, 8 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

P Aculeius, To me the question is whether this is more often called "Battle of Carteia". If not then it should stay where it is, anachronistic or not. b uidhe 06:21, 9 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not really. If there's no clear evidence for what a battle is called in scholarly literature, and we have a choice between a title reflecting the historical reality of the time, and one that's wildly inappropriate, we should always go with the former. It's not "whatever it is now, unless you can prove the other was used then". P Aculeius (talk) 13:16, 9 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

How about "Battle of the Lower Baetis"? M.Bitton (talk) 23:47, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewing the passage in Livy, "Battle of the Baetis (206 BC)" sounds like a good option to distinguish it from the battle of the Sertorian War, in 80 BC. I don't know that the Romans drew a clear distinction between the upper and lower courses of the river, but just adding the year should resolve any remaining confusion. P Aculeius (talk) 16:14, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The name of the page should be "Battle of Certis" not "Carteia"[edit]

Certis is the other name of the Baetis (Guadalquivir), mentioned by Livy, 28.22.1 . Carteia was a Phoenician city at the head of the Bay of Gibraltar. שמחה (talk) 16:51, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]