Talk:Bauhaus (band)

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Wrong Brother[edit]

The first paragraphs of the band beginnings is incorrect - David J's brother is Kevin Haskins, not Daniel Ash. Brandon

Bela Lugosi's Dead: Gothic Myth[edit]

Bauhaus frontman Peter Murphy had insisted that "Bela Lugosi's Dead" was recorded as a joke. I don't personally believe there was such a thing as "gothic" music. The term is about as meaningless and artificial as "alternative" (aka alternateen) or the "Right vs Left" paradigm. In my experience, there was little difference between jocks, preppies, rockers and gothics (or batcavers). The latter clique consumed a wider variety of mind altering substances perhaps. Although many may have deluded themselves that they were being non-conformists by scaring their parents with a "paint it black" dress sense, the "goth" clique was not exceptionally different socially or philosophically. It wasn't a movement. A clique is a clique, a herd is a herd. False choices seem to abound in life!

Goth: Movement or Fashion Statement?[edit]

More than anyone else I credit the beautiful and talented Siouxsie Sioux with developing the "gothic" look. She seems to be the prototype for the clothing and makeup that came to be associated with "gothic."

Steve Severin (Banshees bassist) and Robert Smith (Cure vocalist and one-time Banshees guitarist) were similarly fascinated with her fashion sense. According to Siouxsie, "Put it down to Robert and Severin together. It's all their fault. Both of them would take my clothes and my jewelry. There were some strange nights going on there, lots of cross dressing and clothes swapping. Except they never had anything I wanted to wear."

Her fans also began to emulate her unique style. The look eventually spread across the Atlantic to America. Commented Sioux, "Actually, it's funny -- at quite a lot of our concerts, I used to look out and see all these little Robert Smiths." The Siouxie look with a little Sid Vicious (Sex Pistols) and Rozz Williams (Christian Death) thrown in....

Origins of "Goth"[edit]

It is not "generally accepted" that Bauhaus was "the first goth band". The Banshees both was formed and released their first album before Bauhaus, and have in my opinion been as least as influential to the goth scene.

Geira 16:22, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

In my experience, most people think of Bauhaus as the first, although, yes, Siouxsie was there first. However, her band was much more punky until just around the same time that the "Bela Lugosi's Dead" single came out. I suppose we need some outside sources to back up any statements here, though. Folkor 17:23, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
I think most people see them as one of the first "regarded" goth bands. There were goth bands before them yes, but the genre and the sound was slow to catch on and have a name. I think with Bauhaus people really started to say "these guys are goth!"

My favorite origin tale of the term "goth[ic]" comes from Ian Astbury of The [Southern Death] Cult, who incidentally himself also possessed unusual dress sense , according to Steve Keaton writing in the Dec 14, 1981 issue of Sounds: "The singer is weird, really weird. His hidden beneath an avalanche of red and black hair and rabbit skin pom-poms...."

"The goth tag was a bit of a joke," insists Ian Astbury. "One of the groups coming up at the same time as us was Sex-Gang Children, and Andi [Sex-Gang] -- he used to dress like a Banshees fan, and I used to call him the Gothic Goblin because he was a little guy, and he's dark. He used to like Edith Piaf and this macabre music, and he lived in a building in Brixton called Visigoth Towers. So he was the little Gothic Goblin, and his followers were Goths. That's where goth came from."

Pete Scathe covers this subject in fascinating detail in A History of Goth.

Scathe's site contains a number of artist quotes excerpted from "The Beautiful People," an interesting retrospective written by Suzan Colon for the July 1997 issue of Details Magazine.

Richard 23 21:42, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Bauhaus was the first gothic band as in: first band to be recognised and defined as Goth. There were bands before that could be labelled as gothic as well if you back to them. Joy Division for one, or The Damned (their frontman David Vanian was the first person to introduce the gothic look in music, and also used the look off-stage unlike most performers, so we may should credit Vanian as being the first true Goth in music). However, none of those bands got the Gothic label because there was no such subculture, this started of when Bauhaus also emerged. Bauhaus also deliberately aimed for a rather eerie/horror-esque image and stage antics, further seeking the Goth label. I guess they do deserve the title of godfathers of Goth, even though the music of mainly Joy Division can also be labelled Goth. They never had the label though in their days and also didn't really deliberately search to create an atmosphere that is now known as gothic. Nocturnal Me 21:59, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

You may be right, but wikipedia article are supposed to have citations to a trusted reference source, particularly for contentious statements. Making unsupported claims is frowned upon and may lead to deletion of either the entire article or the contentious section. I will try to find some sources to cite re: the origins of goth rock, and I beg others to do the same. Trade journals are a good source if you have access to them, for example: Rolling Stone, Spin, Kerrang!, Blabbermouth. Thanks! Vampyrecat (talk) 16:37, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Joy Division[edit]

Yeah, whatever. Isn't Joy Division the first gothic band ever? I mean, I'm pretty sure they are even if wikipedians hit me with all their neurosis.

Most people don't actually consider Joy Division as a goth band. I had a protracted argument with my best friend for several months about this, and eventually, I realized he was right. Joy Division is more proto-goth, but Bauhaus deserves the credit as the first real goth band. At least, in my opinion. If you can give a good argument as to why you think Joy Division counts as the first goth band, I'd like to hear it. Folkor 19:31, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
I think Joy Division created the goth "musical" style, and Bauhaus the "fashion" part. Musicaly, Joy Division's sound in songs like Love Will Tear Us Appart, Dead Souls, She's Lost Control, etc. created the goth sound.
You have a point there - Joy Division's fashion wasn't gothic, while Bauhaus's clearly was. I wouldn't call "Love Will Tear Us Apart" gothic - the upbeat feel and especially the keyboard make me lean towards more of a New Wave feel. The lyrics, however, as with most Joy Division lyrics, are rather gothic in nature. "She's Lost Control" and "Dead Souls" have a very gothic feel to them, but it's not quite the same as what Bauhaus did. Joy Division's guitars were always rather distorted, while Bauhaus's tended to be cleaner ("Spirit", "Bela Lugosi's Dead") or distorted to a point where the feedback was quite intense ("Dark Entries"). Bauhaus would never use a keyboard like in "Love Will Tear Us Apart". If I remember right, in the booklet in the Everything! album by Tones on Tail, Ash said something about purposely using keyboards and synthesizers, since such activity was forbidden in Bauhaus. Just a couple arguments. Folkor 06:37, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
Joy Division may use a keyboards, but it's used in a way that gives you the sensation of being in an abandoned and lonely place. That's a very goth keyboard.
(I'm going to stop adding colons, because it's indenting too far.) That's a very subjective statement, not that there is necessarily something wrong with that. However, I think that the keyboards in songs like "Love Will Tear Us Apart" and "Isolation" do just the opposite of what you say - I think they sound uplifting and bright, despite the dark lyrics. "Transmission" also gives off the same feeling. To quote from A History of Goth, "Bauhaus are the first band who cannot be comfortably classified as anything other than goth. UK Decay and The Banshees could be considered punk, The Cure could be considered New Wave, Joy Division could be considered post-punk, but Bauhaus were unmistakably goth in music, looks, lyrics, art and style right from their first single." That site discusses why Joy Division was a big, big influence on gothic music but isn't really gothic in and of itself. Of course, there is still room for argument, and that is just one site and therefore one opinion. Folkor 04:25, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
Bauhaus are to goth as the Sex Pistols are to punk. They may not have started the movement, but they defined it. I think it's safe to call them the definitive goth band. --Switch 11:24, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Well put. -- Jon Dowland 18:01, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

As much as I love both bands, I would not consider Joy Division gothic....the difference? Joy Division's dark lyrics are woe is me im gonna cry in the corner cause life sucks Bauhaus is let's go dance on gravestones and sing about dark stuff, but life dosen't's just fun to scream out the word stigmata! —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:28, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Bauhaus continued with that Genre what Joy Division starts with. Joy Division's Music is post punk. While Unknown Pleasures sometimes was a way more faster and "happier" (but dont forgett about "she lost control" Closer is way more gloomy dark and melancholy than anything other in this time. So you can call Bauhaus Goth Rock. Joy Divison fits in Dark Wave and Post Punk Why Dark Wave? Because The term was coined in Europe in the 1980s to describe a dark and melancholy variant of new wave and post-punk music, such as gothic rock and dark synthpop, So its a dark variant or way of post punk and while this describes Dark Wave im sure this definition also fits perfect for Joy Divisions Music — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brosi90 (talkcontribs) 16:13, 26 November 2013 (UTC)


Crackle is not from the year 2000 , but from the year 1998. 23:40, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

references and bibliography[edit]

i know the information presented in this article represents common knowledge. but there's still a need for a 'references' section and 'bibliography' section. it's common knowledge only for those who were part of the scene. ...but for the ones that weren't? i'm currently translating this in romanian, and i fear for a big "original research" label at the beginning of the article if some references won't be given soon. :D IleanaCosanziana 14:51, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Bauhaus was / Bauhaus were[edit]

"Bauhaus were an English rock band formed in Northampton" Ok. That's fine. But then we get this: "Bauhaus released its second album Mask" (THEIR) "Bauhaus is generally considered the first gothic rock group" (ARE)

What is going on here? Is this an American thing? Like when Americans say "U2 is touring" when it should be "U2 are touring? I figure this is some noun confusion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:13, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Please read Dictionary of English: Group Nouns. Singular in these situations (where the band is acting as a single unit) is perfectly appropriate, in both British and American English - Foetusized (talk) 08:09, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

"Ziggy Stardust"[edit]

I see where the page Ziggy Stardust (Bauhaus single) was recently moved to Ziggy Stardust (Bauhaus song). While it may have been a Bauhaus single, I don't see it as a Bauhaus song. This article for the band links to Ziggy Stardust (song). Does the content at Ziggy Stardust (Bauhaus song) need to merge into Ziggy Stardust (song)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Foetusized (talkcontribs) 15:41, 22 September 2008

It's the standard formatting for article names, see Wikipedia:SONG#Naming. --JD554 (talk) 14:48, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
So what is the standard for articles about songs that have had notable releases by multiple artists? One article like The Passenger (song) which covers both the Iggy Pop original and the Siouxsie & the Banshees cover, or two separate articles like Ziggy Stardust (song) and Ziggy Stardust (Bauhaus song)? Since the two "Ziggy Startdust" articles are about the same song, shouldn't the articles be merged? -- Foetusized (talk) 17:17, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
Although there is scant information in Ziggy Stardust (Bauhaus song), it was a notable release by the band and the article can (and should) be expanded. There is an argument that such little information should be merged in to a parent article, People Are Strange is a good example, but at some point they will need splitting. This one just needs expanding with reliable sources added to show its notability. --JD554 (talk) 19:23, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Cite your sources please[edit]

This article is poorly referenced and could really use more citations. It already has a Biography of Living Persons warning and I'd hate to see the article deleted. Please don't add any new information without proper citations; it's more difficult for a third person to go back and add references later. If it's just a rumor it doesn't belong in the article, and if it's more than a rumor there should be an article or reference out there somewhere, right? It's quite easy to fix bad formatting in citations, so don't worry too much about doing it wrong. If you're really unclear on how to cite sources you could just leave them in a comment here on the discussion page. Thanks! Vampyrecat (talk) 01:26, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't see a BLP warning, just the header that is on all BLP article talk pages. The article is not in danger of being deleted, but help with the citations is always appreciated. Was there any particular reason for the merging of the References and Notes sections? -- Foetusized (talk) 13:49, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
I should really have updated the whole thing to one citation style and converted what is currently called "bibliography" into citebook format. The old-style citations are fairly labor intensive to convert to the new style. I find them to be time consuming because I like to keep all the original information when I'm converting. For example, the references in this article have page numbers which should not be lost during the conversion so it may take a while to convert them all. Vampyrecat (talk) 20:53, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
Concerning the BLP/deletion warning, you're right, the whole article is not in danger of deletion. I should have kept my plea for citations more limited. Vampyrecat (talk) 21:21, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

GO away White - Goth Rock ?[edit]

Is it true that Go Away White still fits in Goth Rock ? On the Discography here on wiki are Alternative and Goth Rock the Genres.? is it a mixture of both of them ? Thanks for your help — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brosi90 (talkcontribs) 20:07, 13 November 2013 (UTC)