Talk:Columbus Day

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 October 2018 and 5 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jevilla001.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 18:05, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 October 2020

The line in regards to the Governorship should be specified that Diego Columbus was the Governor that Bartolomé de las Casas witnessed, as it implies that Bartolomé de las Casas was cataloging Christopher Columbus' Governorship and not Diego Columbus'. It should be specified that this is referring to Diego Columbus or instead state "who observed the region where Christopher Columbus had previously been governor."

Journalist and media critic Norman Solomon reflects, in Columbus Day: A Clash of Myth and History, that many people choose to hold on to the myths surrounding Columbus. He quotes from the logbook Columbus's initial description of the American Indians: "They do not bear arms, and do not know them, for I showed them a sword, they took it by the edge and cut themselves out of ignorance.... They would make fine servants.... With 50 men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want." Solomon states that the most important contemporary documentary evidence is the multi-volume History of the Indies by the Catholic priest Bartolomé de las Casas, who observed the region where Columbus was governor.

Should be:

Journalist and media critic Norman Solomon reflects, in Columbus Day: A Clash of Myth and History, that many people choose to hold on to the myths surrounding Columbus. He quotes from the logbook Columbus's initial description of the American Indians: "They do not bear arms, and do not know them, for I showed them a sword, they took it by the edge and cut themselves out of ignorance.... They would make fine servants.... With 50 men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want." Solomon states that the most important contemporary documentary evidence is the multi-volume History of the Indies by the Catholic priest Bartolomé de las Casas, who observed the region where Diego Columbus was governor. Nixalot (talk) 15:46, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

 Not done. History of the Indies documents between 1492-1520, in which there were multiple governors including both Christopher and Diego. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (Say hi!) 02:12, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

A citation of different views of this opposition to Columbus would be more useful. Not doing so leaves the impression that the tendentious bias of this section is the settled opinion of scholars. Also useful would be some mention of studies of the culture of the indigenous peoples to give a comparison with the Spaniards. 2601:647:5800:3B60:4825:6F39:B52B:71D (talk) 01:28, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Italy

Columbus Day is not celebrated in Italy. There is no mention of celebrations in the Italian page, as it is only a US holiday. The link to the government source simply states that some governmental activities might take place (probably in Genoa). It is not a holiday. I think the way it is written is misleading. 2.207.60.78 (talk) 06:27, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

"Giornata nazionale di Cristoforo Colombo" is not an officially recognized holiday by Italians. It is merely a celebratory calendar day that's observed by just a few people or organizations. This statement should be edited, if not deleted. 99.35.17.4 (talk) 19:55, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

The date calculator is off by a day.

For this year, 2022, it should be today Oct 10), not the 11th. 66.177.251.92 (talk) 12:04, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

This sentence is trivial and should simply be removed

We have a sentence at the end of the history section, "In honor of the request made by joint resolution of Congress on April 30, 1934 that the President proclaim the second Monday of October of each year as “Columbus Day”, President Joe Biden proclaimed October 11, 2021 as Columbus Day." Why is this here. The fact of it's start is already in the article, and every single president since then has made the same proclamation. Do we add the other 12 presidents who did the same thing? Or do we add 87 more statements for each of the intervening years? It does nothing to enhance the article and I tried to remove it but was reverted. Fyunck(click) (talk) 18:22, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

On the contrary, the sentence *does* indeed enhance the article, as it ties the original presidential proclamation over time with continuity to the current President in the current year (edited to 2022), which is why it was included, chronologically, in the manner that the history section of the article is written. Also, it must be considered that the continuance of the proclamation to the present day has been especially significant since Congress, in this case, could not demand, or, order each successive President to make the proclamation, it could only request that he or she would do so. Therefore, the proclamation is not at all guaranteed; it is an honor that continues to highlight the importance of Columbus' achievements and cannot be taken for granted when the tradition is fulfilled. To answer your questions above, no; we don't have to add further detail in the manner that you described. The sentence covers the historical aspect of the proclamation as written. 2601:543:4200:73E0:1506:1580:DDE3:2 (talk) 05:13, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

I have spent the day or so since I read Mr/s 2601's response droning a mantra on WP:AGF, but it really hasn't worked. I honestly can't decide whether to call the egregious Biden namedrop 'trivial' or just 'drivel', so I settled on drivial as that also sums up the above response. Should we also add the line, "The Pope said Mass this Sunday," into the Exodus article? Wouldn't that piece of unremarkable, non-notable fluffery "tie the original [Biblical] proclamation over time with continuity to the current [Pope]"? I mean, he decided to keep holy the Sabbath, didn't he? As for "cover[ing] the historical aspect of the proclamation," that would make some sense in an article about the President's proclamation, which this is not. It's about Columbus Day.

This section already says, "Since 1971, when Columbus Day became an officially recognized Federal holiday in the United States, the holiday has been observed on the second Monday in October..." Every President, including Biden, has issued a Proclamation doing so. I support @Fyunck(click)'s original removal. If no one can give a rational reason for including of this piece of drivia, it needs to either get deleted or trigger a WP:RfC. Cheers, Last1in (talk) 01:03, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

A rational reason for its continued inclusion *has* already been given above. President Biden's proclamation in this case was about Columbus Day, which ties it directly to this section. Name-dropping it is not, but; to note the name-calling, derision and passion expended by detractors over a single but very important fact certainly gives one pause. 2601:543:4200:73E0:3D51:AA4F:AE37:8DBA (talk) 16:05, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

First, I struck-through the only part that you could possibly have seen as a reference to yourself, Mr/s 2601, and I did not call you names or deride you in any way. I did deride your smug response, however, and can't find a serious reason not to call the page-edit in question 'drivia'. It has no notability in the article. It is trivia. It is name-dropping.

Actually, the paragraph you gutted here might have had value, as it spoke to President Biden's choice to also proclaim Indigenous Peoples' Day last year. In contrast, Biden signed three similar proclamations on 07 October this year, the same day he did the Columbus Day one. Do you know what the three related articles have in common? None of them mention it or him. Why? Perhaps because it has no notability in the article. It is trivia. It is name-dropping.

Before we leave the question of whether a particular President's proclamation is important, I'd submit for consideration the US Federal Government's Office of Personnel Management's list of approved Federal holidays for 2023. It has Columbus Day as a Federal holiday. So does every year through 2030. Why? Because every President makes the Proclamation, and it's so automatic that it's written into the Federal employment contracts. I repeat my request to either restore Fyunck(click)'s deletion or raise a WP:RFC. Cheers, Last1in (talk) 01:29, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

The sentence in question isn't name-dropping; it mentions the current president by name for the benefit of anyone unaware of the fact. It isn't trivial because it describes a part of the history of the holiday. The proclamation isn't guaranteed by the documents you cite; they only assume its continuance. Any president can decide not to continue the proclamation, therefore; its continuance by the current president is a significant honor that deserves mention as currently written. 2601:543:4200:73E0:3D51:AA4F:AE37:8DBA (talk) 05:16, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

But then we have to update this every single year by your way of thinking. Every president in the future, for every year, we must change this to make the proclamation up to date. Built-in need for update isn't what we should be doing. The sentence should be scrapped and perhaps a new sentence after "Navy and the Marine Corps with either a 72- or 96-hour liberty period." It could simply say "Each president since 1971 has proclaimed the date as Columbus Day." Fyunck(click) (talk) 06:15, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

I agree with removing this sentence as it would just require unnecessary yearly updating everytime the president proclaims it. Fyunck(click)'s suggestion of changing it to "Each president since 1971 has proclaimed the date as Columbus Day" sounds like a good alternative as it would only need updated if a president didn't proclaim it. Suonii180 (talk) 13:53, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Yes, that an update to the edit proposed above would only be necessary if the proclamation was postponed or discontinued is a good point.

However, since 1971 is already mentioned in the History section as the initial year of the modern holiday, I suggest that the edit would read as follows (leading in from the beginning of the sixth paragraph of the History section): "Since 1971, when Columbus Day became an officially recognized Federal holiday in the United States, it has been observed on the second Monday in October, as commemorated by annual Presidential proclamation noting Columbus' achievements. coincidentally exactly the same day as Thanksgiving in neighboring Canada since 1957.

My contribution to the proposed edit strikes the phrase about Canada's thanksgiving celebration, for two reasons: one, it is totally unrelated to the subject and two, exclusion of that phrase would allow my edit suggestion to work in a location that fits naturally. Also, I feel it necessary to point out that the presidential proclamation serves primarily to note Columbus' achievements, something that was previously ignored in an earlier edit, with an attempt to replace that aspect of history contained in the proclamation with an almost negligible and off-hand description of Italian-American contributions, almost as some sort of misguided attempt to appease those who might be concerned with such an omission. 2601:543:4200:73E0:69D1:1F06:A5AF:3207 (talk) 16:57, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

No problem with this change and I have done so. Fyunck(click) (talk) 18:05, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Excellent solution. Thank you. Cheers, Last1in (talk) 22:11, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

de las Casas?

Would it enrich this article if we point out that de las Casas is a proven hypocrite and actually ordered some of the things he blamed on Columbus at the end? And maybe the fact that Columbus in his own writing has said about the Natives "They are very well made, with very handsome bodies, and very good countenances" and that he thought they would be great for Spain if they would convert to Christianity? Lets not forget that half of the things Columbus is blamed for happened either after he went back to Spain or after he died. YT DomDaBomb20 (talk) 20:19, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

https://www.italian-americans.com/editorials-essays/christopher-columbus/why-columbus-day-of-1942-is-so-meaningful-today/

This article is well put together. Has sources at the bottom. Go to the questions for most of the myths about Colombus, and most of the responses have credible sources attached YT DomDaBomb20 (talk) 20:24, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

https://ricochet.com/225641/debunking-lies-columbus-story-francisco-de-bobadilla/ YT DomDaBomb20 (talk) 00:32, 19 October 2023 (UTC)