Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America

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WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America (Rated NA-class)
WikiProject icon This page is within the scope of WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Native Americans, Aboriginal peoples, and related indigenous peoples of North America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
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Progress report on assessment[edit]

RfC and page link fix[edit]

I have written a new lead section for the article List of sports team names and mascots derived from indigenous peoples and would appreciate some comments. The old lead was deleted entirely, and I did not notice. It was not that good anyway, being a rehash of the mascot controversy articles rather than an introduction to the list.

While placing wikilinks I wanted one for Native American genocide and found that it is a redirect to Demographic history of the indigenous peoples of the Americas, while there is an incorrectly title page Native American Genocide that redirects to Trail of Tears. Neither is inappropriate but is a confusion that needs fixing. FriendlyFred (talk) 00:55, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Two-Spirit Stuff[edit]

Most of the sourcing in Two-Spirit and Two-Spirit identity theory relies on anthropological accounts by non-Natives. Some of the info is completely inaccurate, however it's been repeated enough by anthros, all reading one another, that these same mistakes occur in multiple, university-level sources that would normally be considered WP:RS. This is a problem. The second article above needs serious cleanup, and whatever is salvageable and not already covered in Two-Spirit should probably just be merged there. I've been meaning to get to this since the Spring, but haven't had a chance yet. I'll try to get to it if no one else does, but these articles need help. Also linked in with these is the Cogender article, that I don't know what to do with. Usually these things get booted over to the LGBT wikiprojects, but these articles need Native (or at least Native-aware) attention. - CorbieV 23:12, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

The non-native-but-looks-RS problem exists for a lot of Native articles, my suggestion is to start by gathering sources you know to be accurate (you can even park them on the article's talk page) and then work on that. The best way to handle this stuff is to have footnotes up the wazoo. Montanabw(talk) 02:58, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
Are we disqualified if we keep our footnotes somewhere else? because I am a native male who is not burdened by two spirits (like most folks, I only have one) and I don't keep anything there (mine is exit only)71.127.135.196 (talk) 12:42, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
Unhelpful comment, using a colloquialism for humorous effect. Please read WP:RS and WP:V for details. Montanabw(talk) 00:56, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Native Warrior Society flag theft-pic re the Vancouver Olympics article.[edit]

Please see Talk:2010_Winter Olympics#Native Warrior Society flag UNDUE as illustration for the aboriginal opposition section. Few ideas fielded for alternatives, and suppression of a lot of political opposition and the controversies-fork article over time, on the grounds that it's not of global relevance. Not going there, as a discussion, just pointing out how little and how effectively distorted the perspective and context of the host nations. That's the wrong flag to have to represent the native opposition in BC. The NWS are in BC and have showed up with their flag before, e.g. at the Green Mountain protests/blockade post-Oka, and at a dozen others in recent times if I gave it some thought which and where, but it's not the native mainstream; a loose comparison would be to the Communist Party of Canada (Marxist-Leninist) (the Maoist branch, there are others for Stalinists and Trotskyites; the CPC - no -ML - and Socialist Part of Canada) showing up faithfully at nearly any major demonstration.....all 37 out them out of a crowd of tens of thousands. Guess who gets hyped by the media making sure they have a picture of their banner. Same deal here, though unintentional but a reflection also of what's around in RS and in the Commons; I haven't looked at User:SaskatchewanSenator's usercontribs but kinda know what I'm gonna find, let's put it that way.

Don't know what's in Commons of maybe the Eagleridge demonstrations/arrests. #Harriet Nahanee, #Betty Krawczyk.Skookum1 (talk) 06:50, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

I can assure you the media deal to hype a toothless group of 37 people out of ten thousand is sealed *behind closed doors*, but they remain a toothless group of 37 people though dont they? 71.127.135.196 (talk) 12:49, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
I have refractored the unhelpful comment above. I think this conversation can continue over at the winder olympics page linked above. Montanabw(talk) 00:55, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
well, no, it's discussed in the Sun's editorial boardroom where the select the photo to go with the lead story. And yes, though they're not toothless they remain a group of 37 people; but they are not representative of the crowds of up to 150,000 that their group banner-photo was used to portray. Not like there's not a 'commie scare' agenda in a lot of BC' press...no, not at all [sarcasm]. The particular incident I'm referring to was the last and largest of the Solidarity Coalition "uprising" in 1983; the "behind closed doors" they were surrounding was a cabinet meeting in the Hotel Vancouver. But it still goes on (see Operation Solidarity, which was an offshoot, I think it has an article; sources for the Coalition are problematic; picking someone wacky or out of it or rabid to portray any group of protesters, or if the ML's or others like them show up make sure they're in the footage; someone colourful and ratings-oriented maybe; point is that the Native Warrior Society dudes who did that in Vancouver are not representative of the subject of the section in question; headline-grabbing yes, but "just four or five" instead of 37 "toothless" protesters.Skookum1 (talk) 14:40, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
Well, the point is that inflammatory language here helps no one. And the Anon IP troll who made assorted inappropriate comments here seems to have gone on his or her way. So carry on...Montanabw(talk) 07:27, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

:::::Well no, in fact I am still here and following the conversation (there must be one born every minute to fall for that one) and I do NOT appreciate this gentleman Montanabw taking the liberty and arrogance to "refactor" my comment while labelling me a "troll" (very inflammatory language there) and simultaneously spewing, self-sanctimoniously, about "inflammatory language". Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, are we Montanabw? 71.246.158.81 (talk)

Yeah, MBW, sure enough and no doubt it will continue. But I do have to ask, what does someone posting anonymously from Virginia in such hostile tones and harsh POV with an article on Canadian politics/natives? Never mind, I already know.....I guess it's a living.....Skookum1 (talk) 13:18, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Seen it a lot btw, on Canadian items in a similar contentious/attack style, from Kansas, Minnesota, Virginia, Utah...usually from a town with an M-I or similr economy; but then, they all are I suppose...Skookum1 (talk) 13:20, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

::It's okay, we all share the same premise here that "Canada" is a legitimate entity... (no doubt this also explains your concern with Natives and First Nations) 71.246.158.81 (talk) 13:25, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Anonymous IP 71, are you trying to make any kind of point here or is it merely your intent to be a disruptive troll? Because you ARE being a disruptive troll. Your "toothless' comment above was racist in tone (implying that Native people have no teeth, a common racial slur linked to issues of poverty and social class) and your "not the sharpest knife in the drawer" violates WP:NPA. Skookum1, I have to say that you are being unnecessarily cryptic here, (M-I economy?) so would you explain what you are implying, either here or via email? As far as I can see, issues of Native people are not taken seriously, and though the USA does a poor job, Canada is, apparently, even worse about such matters at the moment. That said, it's not so much a deep dark conspiracy as just a good old boys business as usual. Montanabw(talk) 21:00, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
No, it's not a conspiracy...it's in-your-face fact. I'll email you today. and considering the title of this page, the non sequitur of the IP troll's further babble about "[my] concern with Natives and First Nations" is all too clear; that's what this page/wikiproject is for.....what his Virginian-origin views on either Canadian First Nations or the Vancouver Olympics have to do with anything is beside the point; dissemblers and provocateurs don't trade in logic, and field absurdities as if truth with alarming regularity. As if from a manual or script or guide; which is known, in fact, to be the case. Why American IPs make such negative/confrontational edits and comments on Canadian topics is not exactly a mystery.....who they are and who's behind them is not exactly secondary; but IMO if there's three successive garbage-posts like this then they should be permanently blocked, and their IP looked at for corporate or government origin.Skookum1 (talk) 05:33, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

:::::Most people around here are cognizant of the fact that "Canadians" feel perfectly at liberty to discuss American issues, but if anyone located in America pays attention to "Canada", why it's time to get out the blazing torches and go a-persecuting, to remind yourselves once again what useful and friendly guys you are? I already told you I am a native American, yet it has already been widely observed that it is always white homosexual activists in Canada who dominate all discussions of our welfare, and try to squelch out any of us speaking for themselves, automatically screaming "racism" because I used "toothless" as a synonym for their generally comical impotence and sword rattling. As if, being a homosexual. you are some kind of deity and tell everyone else what they may say or discuss. ROFL Nothing new here, and the planet keeps on spinning in the same direction as ever... 71.127.135.66 (talk) 13:02, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

What's different here is that this is Wikipedia, and unconstructive and pejorative comments of the kind you are making, which have no real relation to the context under discussion, and a harshly POV position reflective of a particular political culture (also present among Canadians, for sure, but equally unwelcome and out-of-place here) that has, point-blank, nothing to add to the issue at hand; instead you name-call us, cf. it has already been widely observed that it is always white homosexual activists in Canada who dominate all discussions of our welfare...As if, being a homosexual. you are some kind of deity and tell everyone else what they may say or discuss.. And now equating the "toothless" paradigm you fielded with "generally comic impotence and sword rattling about ... Canadian native peoples, once again. You are indeed nothing new, either on this sorry planet or within Wikipedia, but you will not be tolerated. Not by this homosexual (Montanabw is a woman but may be homosexual, I don't know) but just to satisfy you the discussion board that will see to dealing with your conduct probably includes some homosexuals, some of whom may also be toothless or have a sword collection (rather than a nice cabinet of guns like you may well do). 'Tis not any of us who are comically impotent - that you would be you, sir (madam?). Your hatred and open spite and racial/political bias is normal in news forums and blogs; it has no place in Wikipedia. And you have no reason to be here but as a place for you to enjoy typing out that spite and hate and try and sow confusion; you are at best cheap entertainment, soon to be deleted and more than likely blocked. Possible exposed, if your IP turns out to be government or corporate in origin. Yes, Canadians comments on American articles all the time, and vice-versa; but not consistently from IP addresses sowing hatred and POV bias unrelated to the topic; that your only connection to this page is your hatred for native peoples, as just stated, clearly means you don't expect to find support. Only someone to attack and degrade or insult. Whether for pay as for hobby, you have no place here. You are an armchair extremist, nothing more...Skookum1 (talk) 14:05, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
Struck edits by a sock of indefinitely blocked Til Eulenspiegel. Dougweller (talk) 19:25, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Indian termination policy[edit]

I have been working on the Indian termination policy page and believe that I have mostly completed it. Would really appreciate any input. Do not know how to join a WikiProject. I am originally from Oklahoma and majored in native studies. In updating the page, I added two articles which are pending review, one on Tillie Hardwick and one on the Kansas Act of 1940. SusunW (talk) 01:20, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Joining the WikiProject is easy, just add your name here and then go have a look around WP:IPNA's subpages.Skookum1 (talk) 03:02, 22 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. I added my name. Find Wikipedia extremely difficult to navigate. The help pages were apparently written by programmers, as I usually cannot make head nor tails sense of how to do anything other than edit an article. SusunW (talk) 00:34, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
Susun, ping me when you are ready to submit the articles or have submitted them; I'll do the review... AfC is where drafts go to die if you don't know someone...  ;-) Montanabw(talk) 18:46, 22 December 2014 (UTC)
I have no idea how to ping you so hopefully just answering here will help. They are out there. One was submitted on the 14th, the other on the 19th. SusunW (talk) 00:06, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Nomination of Samantha Nock - A Halfbreed's Reasoning for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Samantha Nock - A Halfbreed's Reasoning is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Samantha Nock - A Halfbreed's Reasoning until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. --The Vintage Feminist (talk) 05:19, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Coast Salish defensive sites has been nominated for deletion[edit]

Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Coast Salish defensive sites.Skookum1 (talk) 08:15, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Category:Indian Reservation Roads Program[edit]

Category:Indian Reservation Roads Program, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for deletion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you.RevelationDirect (talk) 19:57, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

The Entire Category:Native American archeology tree[edit]

Category:Native American archeology and all it's subcategories, which are within the scope of this WikiProject, have been nominated for renaming to use "indigenous peoples of North America" so that the US and Canadian First Nations categories can be merged in a follow-up nomination. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you.RevelationDirect (talk) 12:42, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject X is live![edit]

WikiProject X icon.svg

Hello everyone!

You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!

Note: To receive additional notifications about WikiProject X on this talk page, please add this page to Wikipedia:WikiProject X/Newsletter. Otherwise, this will be the last notification sent about WikiProject X.

Harej (talk) 16:57, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Irataba GAN[edit]

Hello! I recently wrote an article for Irataba, and I have now nominated it at GAN, but I'm not sure how to get some eyes on it. Would anyone here be willing to review it for GA? Rationalobserver (talk) 22:16, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

AfD[edit]

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Métis of Maine. Check out the photos of the group, too. - CorbieV 20:05, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

New article on Indian Joe[edit]

I just created the article on Indian Joe, a scout around the time of the American Revolutionary War. — Sebastian 10:11, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ronald Barnes (Alaskan politician)[edit]

I would have nominated this for deletion years ago had I cared enough. Now that it has been nominated, I thought I would bring attention to it just in case there are any sources particular to the indigenous community that anyone may possibly know about (my Google search gave a faint indication that Barnes may possibly be known in indigenous circles). RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 21:14, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Appreciate the notification. Montanabw(talk) 21:47, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Can anyone validate if this guy (Barnes) is notable among the Alaskan indigenous community? Some people on WP who are active in these circles haven't heard of him. His article is up for deletion here, so please come over and vote. DroitInternationale (talk) 13:25, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Indigenous Literatures wikithon[edit]

Dear project members -

I am an academic who researches and writes about Native American and First Nations literatures. I'm also an occasional Wikipedian and would like to work to improve the project's coverage of Native American authors and books.

With this in mind, I've proposed that the next Native American Literature Symposium (NALS) in March run a wikithon session to get academics and writers, of whom there should be around 150 in attendance, contributing to Wikipedia. I have a list of authors who don't currently have articles, and I will also get participants working on improving existing stub articles. The NALS programme can be found here [1].

Would it be OK to create a sub page to this WikiProject from which to coordinate the session? I'd also love to get input from project members as to which articles we should be pointing participants to. Best, James Mackay (aka Vizjim (talk) 19:14, 15 February 2015 (UTC))

Hi Vizjim. My suggestion is to create a wikipedia editathon page specially for this event. Ask people like User:Keilana or User:harej how it is done I think they can help you out. Also User:Uyvsdi and User:mimi.roberts are both in your general area and might be able to help. Montanabw(talk) 02:59, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Elizabeth Warren article.[edit]

There are some issues on the Elizabeth Warren article, with non-Native sources being used instead of Native ones. Conveniently, the non-Native sources claim Native heritage is "difficult to prove"... No, it's not. The Cherokee have kept excellent records, and Warren's ancestors are not on them. The immediate sources I have on this, though, are blogs. I know mainstream, WP:RS news outlets interviewed Cherokee people about this, and I thought those sources used to be in the article. However, there has been a POV, biased push to minimize or disappear this issue. Could use some eyes on this and help on sourcing.[2] - CorbieV 20:49, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Oh here we go again. That one was settled during the 2012 election. Montanabw(talk) 20:13, 21 February 2015 (UTC)