Talk:English ship Triumph (1562)

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Military history: Maritime / British / European Start‑class

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Building date[edit]

Some references indicate that this Triumph was built in 1580. I found a more reliable reference saying she was built in 1562 (Historic Sail, Wheatly and Howarth, 2000) and have been advised of two other references using the 1962 date. This earlier date makes sense for several reasons. Her size and weight indicate she was built before the 'race-built' galleons were built under the guidance of John Hawkins starting in the 1570s. Revenge was built keel-up as a 'race-built' in 1577, followed by Vanguard, Rainbow and Ark Royal. Triumph's dimentions with a burden of 1000 tons and a beam of 40 ft., do not match the 500 tons and 35-38 ft. beams of these 'race-builts'. I will welcome any comments here on this or other matters about Triumph.Tvbanfield 04:13, 14 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You are completely correct. The Triumph was laid down during 1561 and launched in October 1562. I draw your attention to various articles in Mariner's Mirror (Vol.54, 1968, page 184; Vol.56, 1970, page 17) . Can I also use this reply to make clear that the peculiar reference to a "twin" being built for the Triumph at the time of the latter's rebuilding in 1596 is UTTERLY SPURIOUS and appear to be some Wiki-vandal's imagination run riot. There was no such "twin", either planned or built. Rif Winfield (talk) 18:03, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Further to that, I have removed that comment from the page completely as it is unreferenced anyway. In the interests of... conservation? hmm... here it is in full:

Triumph was alleged to have a twin which was built at the same time of her relaunch (in 1596). This unnamed ship was reputed to have been sunk before she was let out into the ocean for her first voyage. The mythology claimed that Triumph's twin was stolen by pirates and modified to serve as a pirate ship for the rest of her days. However, there is no factual basis for this story.

If someone is able to produce a source that gives mention of this (seemingly unlikely!) then it could go back in, but otherwise it should stay out. Martocticvs (talk) 18:11, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Some vandal is still at work on this article. For some reason, the heading of the article seems to include a link to some other article about a film called "the Ron Clark Story" (nothing whatseover to do with the Triumph of 1562 or indeed to any ship whatsoever). Can you kindly delete this reference? Rif Winfield (talk) 18:21, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

To Shem- just so you know I wasn't reverting you just for the sake of it there! The Triumph is now a fully-fledged disambig page, and whilst it did include this ship as a possible destination, I changed it to link to the HMS Triumph index page, as there's no obvious reason (to me anyway) why 'The Triumph' would primarily be referring to this incarnation of the name... so that I think makes mentioning 'The Triumph' or the film on this page pointless, as no one is going to be arriving at this page if they're after the film ;) I think that logic works, anyway...! Martocticvs (talk) 20:00, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Makes sense to me too. This article as written was originally titled 'The Triumph', and it made sense to the creator to link to the alternative title of the film, but since the article has been moved I don't think this is an issue any more. The article as written also seems mildly confused about the importance of the English Restoration to the HMS prefix. Since the prefix doesn't come in until the late eighteenth century, it's true to say that Triumph would not have been referred to as 'HMS Triumph', but this has nothing to do with the English Commonwealth/Restoration, which happened many years after this Triumph ceased to exist. Benea (talk) 20:28, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Elsewhere on Wiki we read that Frobisher captained 'Aid' against the Armada. Clearly he wasn't in Triumph and Aid. Could someone edit one or the other? 109.148.142.254 (talk) 11:29, 8 July 2015 (UTC)Dean[reply]