Talk:German heraldry

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Siebmacher's Wappenbuch[edit]

There are a number of lovely plates from Seibmacher's Wappenbuch available online. Does anyone know how we can legally import them into the sections on Nobles' and Burghers' arms? LTC David J. Cormier (talk) 18:30, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

They're already on the Commons here. Wilhelm_meis (talk) 01:13, 29 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone: Is it authoritative to note that the helm position in Siebmacher's Wappenbuch also affects the orientation of the arms? I've heard controversy over this, and I would not presume to be an authority. Do you believe that the potential student of HR armory need to know this postional distinction before exploring the topic further? I note this because it can be very misleading to those dilletants who try to look up arms. LTC David J. Cormier (talk) 15:03, 11 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

WP:DICT[edit]

Why a glossary? It doesn't help tell us what's distinctive about German heraldic practice. —Tamfang (talk) 04:27, 28 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You have a point, and looking at WP:DICT it's not the best use of space. Just chalk it up as one of those late night ideas. It might be useful to us as editors to have a quick reference to some terminology, but I think there are better ways to introduce the terminology in the article. I'm working on some tables similar to those at Swedish heraldry, but I'm not getting in a super huge hurry on that. I'm with you, it's more important to discuss what's German about German heraldry. I'll go ahead and take down the glossary though. Wilhelm_meis (talk) 01:19, 29 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The language of heraldry is part of the heraldic practice, is it not? I would include the terminology in the same way as when defining terms in English heraldry. LTC David J. Cormier (talk) 23:47, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

courtoisie[edit]

Need to say something about the practice of turning charges in the dexter half of a composition toward the center. —Tamfang (talk) 06:06, 28 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, although the practice does not seem to be universal. Brunswick, Bavaria, Saarland, Oldenburg, in fact I can only find one example of this. Tinynanorobots (talk) 18:56, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Crests[edit]

There is a line stating that the "record number" of crests shown on one shield is 13 with a reference from Neubecker. I have a thaler coin, 1777 date, from Brandenburg-Ansbach with 15 crests. Is this known to be an inaccurate depiction even though it is on an official coin of the Principality?

Talshiarr (talk) 21:45, 28 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for pointing that out. I suspect that coin was unknown to Neubecker at the time of publication. Wilhelm_meis (talk) 23:22, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Tincture[edit]

Does German really say "grön"? Green in Standard German is "grün". Maybe this is pasted from the Swedish page? -- Evertype·✆ 20:07, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Grün according to this site. Is there a more authoritative source though? Wilhelm_meis (talk) 23:27, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Then change it to grün. Grön is probably just a mistake. -- Evertype·✆ 00:01, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done. I think you're right. I think I just copy-pasted it from Swedish heraldry and substituted the German words, probably just missed that one in the shuffle. Fixed now anyway. Wilhelm_meis (talk) 00:27, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ordinary[edit]

The sample escutcheon here Argent, a pale gules is actually Argent, a pale throughout gules. Should we have another sample for a more ordinary pale? -- Evertype·✆ 06:49, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You mean a pale couped? A "pale throughout" is just a pale, as I understand it. Wilhelm_meis (talk) 07:01, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, a pale couped is ~~beyond the pale~~ out of the ordinary. Have you examples in mind? —Tamfang (talk) 05:26, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I note, Evertype, you use "throughout" quite a lot, but could someone explain it to me? Something like the opposite of 'couped'? Tamfang, that is a very poor pun, seeing as they're both etymologically related, coming from the Latin palus meaning "fence". - Jarry1250 ^{[ humourous – discuss ]} 07:11, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

(That's supposed to be jovial, not insulting. - Jarry1250 ^{[ humourous – discuss ]} 07:29, 8 July 2009 (UTC))[reply]

Don't you know, Jarry, heralds don't pun, they can't. ;-) Wilhelm_meis (talk) 07:52, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think that's going in Grandiose's next book.</sarcasm> - Jarry1250 ^{[ humourous – discuss ]} 08:08, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yah, I crossed it off because I had a much better one. I agree that punning between cognates is hardly sporting (though I don't think it occurred to me in this case). —Tamfang (talk) 23:49, 12 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Throughout is the default posture for a pale.LTC David J. Cormier (talk) 23:50, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ecclesiastical heraldry[edit]

Material about Roman Catholic Church heraldry (which says nothing about distinctive practice in Germany, nor indeed anything about Germany at all) shouldn't be added here just to fill out a section; better to remove the section. —Tamfang (talk) 00:07, 1 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Terminological issues [wikitable][edit]

Variations	Barry (of eight)	Paly (of eight)	Bendy (of eight)
Deutsch	(Achtmal) geteilt	(Achtmal) gepfahlt	(Achtmal) geschrägt
correct heraldic German:	(Achtmal) geteilt: no! Correct: "siebenmal geteilt"	(Achtmal) gepfahlt: a) "gepfahlt" is very awkward, correct would be "gespalten", and b) correct: "siebenmal gespalten"	(Achtmal) geschrägt: same procedure, a) "geschrägt" is a bit awkward, and b) correct would be "siebenmal schräggeteilt"

SR-7v (talk) 08:22, 8 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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The House of Hohenzollern as example for the german/imperial eagle[edit]

is somewhat(/pretty much) odd. First: the imperial eagle isn't the heraldic animal of the Burggraves of Nuremberg, never was. It was the coat of arms of that very city - which might sound obvious when one thinks of it. Second: when the Burggraves of Hohenzollern 'inherited' the markgraveship of Brandenburg from - I think - the Luxemburgers in the early 15th century, they had the right to carry the Red Eagle of Brandburg as such, but that wasn't to do with the imperial eagle at all. Third: the controversy/aversion between the so-called Welfen (guelphs) and the imperial house of Waiblingen (ghibellines) could be construed as the mentioned heraldic phenomenon lion vs. eagle only in that context of time, when the holy roman empire was led by the Stauffer-family (their coat of arms is now to be found as the three antlers of Würtemberg or at the Porsche-Logo). Altough the Stauffer(s) where of somewhat finer breed - by which I mean more noble as the hohenzollern - the Welfen always where more ancient, thus more noble (Uradel - gentil nobility), thus much more creepy to deal with in any social setting. The Welf-Emperor Otto IV. had both animals on his coat of arms.--77.186.111.11 (talk) 20:01, 27 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]