Talk:Julian Cope

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If he was born in Glamorgan he's Welsh not English — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C7:FD0A:5301:B40A:6653:B886:C047 (talk) 21:51, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Writer[edit]

He also wrote an interesting book about Krautrock : Krautrocksampler. Arronax50 22:14, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

He prefers to name it "Kosmiche Musik" (Cosmic Music), by the way. Arronax50 22:17, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Clean-up[edit]

This article needs a clean-up - methelfilms 6 July 2005 08:28 (UTC)

What do you suggest? I think the discography (in particular) needs some cleanup, but I don't think the article is an overall mess. I've been tracking changes to it and do intend further expansion and maintenance, so if you have suggestions for cleanup but not the time to do them, let me know and I'll see about acting on them. Dayv 8 July 2005 22:44 (UTC)

More on music - each album should be commented properly.

Long band names?[edit]

We have here:

" The name for the band ... started the trend for long band names such as Echo and the Bunnymen and Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark."

What's especially long about "Teardrop Explodes" or E & the B-men? (I could list tons of longer band names, before JC and TE "started the trend"...for a small selection how about The Velvet Underground, Ozark Mountain Daredevils, Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band, and the (fictional, but surely influential) Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars...). Furthermore, what evidence is there that the other two bands mentioned were influenced by the not-particularly-long name of "Teardrop Explodes" in deciding their names? Camillus (talk) 22:42, 18 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. I'll remove it until or unless it can be referenced. --Guinnog 22:53, 18 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think it was referenced here because I believe he makes that claim in his book...daleki 16:54, 19 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Probably he had in mind more the mysteriousness of names like The Teardrop Explodes, rather than the length per se. And Velvet Underground wouldn't count – the context was the (Liverpool) punk scene. JöG (talk) 09:04, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Teardrop Explodes singles[edit]

I just added a list of singles to the discography. one day I'll remember to fill in that edit box... Totnesmartin 15:06, 23 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nobby the dog[edit]

I'm sure Cope used to ride around Tamworth wearing a dog costume, calling himself 'Nobby'. Then, when he thought of an idea for a song, he would stop at the next phone box and record the idea onto his ansaphone. Did I dream this - I can't find any reference to it on the internets.86.6.207.111 23:04, 26 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes that is true. 80.7.243.157 (talk) 19:50, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Modern Antiquarian etc[edit]

Cope's writing demands more coverage than the half-line it receives here. Anyone qualified to contextualise his archeology, as well as his autobiographies and music crit (Krautrocksampler etc)? Millichip 22:40, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Trim[edit]

I thought this article was looking a little shaggy, so I gave it a bit of a trim. There were a lot of unsupported judgments in there (20 Mothers a return to form?!); any stuff like that should really be properly referenced. Can we get better references as well; at the moment the only three verifiably listed are Cope's two volumes of autobiography and Cope's own website. I'm sure the good sources are out there - anybody fancy taking a look? --John 17:07, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

English?[edit]

Julian was, as is correctly stated in the article, born in Wales. However, the article begins by incorrectly describing him as "English". 220.101.174.199 (talk) 04:45, 8 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cope's immediate family lived in England, as did his father's family. Cope's mother went to stay with her mother in Wales during her pregnancy, which is why Cope was born there. The current British nationality reflects his mixed English and Welsh heritage. In an essay on his own web page, he self-identifies as an Englishman -- "As an Englishman, I had always consoled myself that Cromwell’s infamous behaviour in Ireland had been facilitated through the failure of the Levellers’ Revolt." -- Foetusized (talk) 16:33, 17 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that his nationality is British is undisputable. Being born in a country doesn't necessarily make that one's nationality, and describing his as 'Welsh' without strong sourcing to demonstrate that that is his position in a non-starter. As he identifies as English, British or English is the best description. --Michig (talk) 19:56, 19 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Classic case (as with Tony Blair) where "British" is the correct term. See also WP:UKNATIONALS. --John (talk) 19:57, 19 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the confirmation, Michig and John. As a Yankee, I'm never 100% certain when I get into discussions of British nationalities -- Foetusized (talk) 23:33, 19 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's bloody complicated, isn't it? I think for BLPs, where there is legitimate doubt as with Blair and Cope, we should go with self identification and what the sources say. I remember a furious and bloody war at the U2 article back in the day about whether we could call them an Irish band, given that two of the four were born in England. Of course we can, that's what they call themselves and that's what the sources say. --John (talk) 21:02, 20 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

INS[edit]

"In 2005, plans to tour the United States were dropped because their INS refused to grant him a visa." Yet the INS apparently ceased to exist in 2003. So who refused Cope entry? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.13.248.2 (talk) 12:24, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Photograph[edit]

I believe I can obtain a CC-BY-SA --(means, a free and clear) photo to place in the infobox, unless smeone else has a photograph for it. Even so, the article, while ranked Start, will eventually become a larger one with a bit more text and inline citations. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 04:33, 20 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

'Mythical' status of the Crucial Three[edit]

According to the Crucial Three article, and based on apparently reliable sources, they got as far as writing songs and rehearsing together, although the band lasted only six weeks. 'Short-lived' seems appropriate. Certainly more appropriate than a term meaning "existing only in stories" or "imaginary or not real" (Cambridge Dictionary).--Michig (talk) 20:10, 26 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The point is that their "myth" is greater than their reality. Even thirty years on they still get namechecks amongst musos (that radio 1 quiz thing). "Short-lived" is wrong for a band that never recorded or played to an audience. Stillborn would be closer. Warsaw were short-lived, Stiff Kittens never had the same mythos. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:57, 26 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I understand. If we can find a source that uses it then maybe. But mythical is a word to avoid if possible, like legendary and seminal. Per NPOV it is better to just report the facts and follow the sources. --John (talk) 05:44, 27 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Politics[edit]

The opening paragraph suggests JC is out spoken and an activist, in what directions? I think it would be helpful to have considerable expansion here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.148.40.51 (talk) 02:18, 28 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Read the rest of the paragraph, and the final third of the article. JC's political activism is a complex issue (connected to general cultural and religious beliefs rather than party politics) and is best explored in greater depth in the main article. Summarising it in the intro section would make said section unwieldy, and the article is already quite complicated! - Dann Chinn (talk) 11:56, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Links modified on main page[edit]

Please review the links modified on the main page...—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 02:23, 7 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Deri[edit]

In the summary box, Deri is described as being in Monmouthshire, which it is not. Its current County is Caerphilly, and its historic /ceremonial one is Mid Glamorgan. Deri's own page states this. 149.254.182.70 (talk) 14:58, 23 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Nationality[edit]

How can Julian Cope be described as an English musician..when he was clearly born in Wales?? 85.255.234.245 (talk) 09:10, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nationality and where someone was born are not necessarily the same thing. See above discussion. --Michig (talk) 16:08, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Erroneous citation for views on Scott Walker[edit]

The line “This sparked renewed interest in the work of Walker (although years later Cope commented that the singer's ‘Pale White Intellectual’ outlook on life no longer held any fascination for him)” is immediately followed by a citation to Cope’s memoirs *Head On*. However, that particular quotation about Scott Walker is not present in that book. It looks like this line may have been copied from a 2009 blog post about Cope, but even there the quotation is unsourced. CRCulver (talk) 20:37, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]