Talk:Kenneth Koch

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the arts and entertainment work group (assessed as Mid-importance).

Poetry Mid‑importance

	Poetry portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Poetry, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of poetry on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoetryWikipedia:WikiProject PoetryTemplate:WikiProject PoetryPoetry articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article has been marked as needing an infobox.

United States: Ohio Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Ohio portal This article is supported by WikiProject Ohio (assessed as Mid-importance).

New York (state): Columbia University Low‑importance

	New York (state) portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject New York (state), a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of New York on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New York (state)Wikipedia:WikiProject New York (state)Template:WikiProject New York (state)New York (state) articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Columbia University (assessed as Low-importance).

It is requested that an image or photograph be included in this article to improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific media request template where possible.

Wikipedians in New York City may be able to help!

The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.

Upload

too many quotations[edit]

There was a Simpsons episode in which Grampa Simpson recalls his fighter pilot brother's feud with Santa Claus....

I wonder if this is Koch influenced.

-Way, way too many quotations of his work, and uncited comments that he was a master. This article reads like glowing praise, not an objective biography.

I've had no hand in the article, but it's pretty unquestioned these days that he was a master. The label of "major poet" is contentious, but Koch was probably one. The tone of this article is too personal, but the problem isn't so much in the conclusions it reaches as the AA Alvarez sort of "I remember well" vibe that it exudes. It reads more like Donald Hall than Yvor Winters. (Citations are not needed for facts found in three or more general and authoritative sources (e.g. Ohm's Law doesn't need a citation), but the first person narrative of the article is obviously off.) Geogre 03:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed! The mind-numbing retrospective of Koch's work is a gratuitous, at best, testament to the lack of objectivity to this article. I'll not hide my less than favourable disposition towards Koch, but I could see poor Karen Culler even wincing at the mere number of times "Master" was used. Undoubtedly, the poet has played a significant historical role and influenced subsequent works accordingly, but Wikipedia is certainly not the forum to have such a critique (nauseating lionization) of his work, leave that to further explorations into the bibliography by so ambitious scholars. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Desire in ruins (talk • contribs) 00:17, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It appears that the offending idolatrous sections have been excised. I dare say that a former student of Koch's likely wrote them. I am a former student of Koch's, as well. He was an average professor, at best, and I must say that I loathe his "poetry". His high esteem for Ern Malley tells one everything one needs to know about him, I think.Carnamagos (talk) 23:20, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]