Talk:List of Bleach characters/Archive 4

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Lurichiyo or Rurichiyo

This name seems to be spelled both ways in different articles. Could anyone fill me in on why we can't settle on one spelling? (Skunkboy74 (talk) 03:57, 21 August 2008 (UTC))

It's because Dattebayo had to make the first R into an L for absolutely no reason. And to too many anonymous users, DB preaches the gospel, so we have to deal with them. The regular editors seem to agree with the sensible R spelling...it's just a matter of reverting the anons.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 04:37, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I totally agree, with you,Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ this is wikipedia and not Dattebayo LLC, so we should just revert the anonymous editors that copy/paste every little thing they see just because they do not fell like researching a little bit. Cristian Cappiello (talk) 02:57, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

As usual, the answer should be "what is Viz" using in the manga (presuming Viz is up to that point). Otherwise, agree with going for the "sensible" until an official is available. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 14:48, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

While I agree with you on that one, Coll, might I point out that this entire arc is filler. It is a non-canonical filler arc that does not take place in the manga. *sigh* This is what happens when you do filler without thinking it through. Sasuke9031 (talk) 16:02, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

It being filler isn't an issue. It still has an official English spelling as the anime is also being released (and by Viz), so the answer is still the same. What does Viz use for the anime, if they have released that far yet? :) -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 16:07, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Well Viz is either just finishing the first Bount arc, or just starting the second. I fell out of touch with Bleach when this new filler started rearing its ugly head. Sasuke9031 (talk) 16:13, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Checked the website...if the current ep list is correct, it will be quite awhile before we have an official answer :P For myself, I recently read the manga for the first time and loved it. The anime was okay, but too much added comedy for my tastes, and too many filler episodes in the main story and that stretching stuff out thing. A battle should not take 4 episodes unless its like WWIII :P -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 16:32, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Or DBZ. LOL. Sasuke9031 (talk) 20:43, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Viz just started the second Bount arc. Hope it's quick and painless. Suigetsu 23:21, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

The Japanese don't have a letter "L", so in foreign words or names they substitute an "R" sound. It could be that Lurichiyo is the name the anime meant her to have, but since we haven't seen it written in-universe or in Romanized Japanese from an official source, there's no way to be sure. I will say that if the consensus is she's called "Rurichiyo" in the articles by virtue of this, you might want to consider that all other anime characters the wiki Romanizes the name of without a source should be fixed too. 88.109.250.126 (talk) 01:48, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Page needs rewritten

In order to get this article up to the standard of other character lists which have been recognized as featured, as well as solve a number of problems that we've been having with our character lists recently, we need to severely overhaul the page arrangement for this list. The key focus of this rearrangement should be to get the page to be clearly presented for non-fans, rather than requiring familiarity with details of Bleach's massive universe that Wikipedia doesn't even cover.

The first step towards this would be to break at least this page out of the purely race-based character presentation to one that more clearly reflects importance of characters to the plot. I believe we can accomplish this by presenting the primary cast with short summary style bios on this page, with the race/faction descriptions and supporting lists linked to after that. For a rough sketch of the page layout, I'd suggest the following:

• Lead
• Conception/creation stuff
• Primary characters
  • Ichigo Kurosaki
  • Rukia Kuchiki
  • Orihime Inoue
  • Yasutora "Chad" Sado
  • Kisuke Urahara
  • Uryū Ishida
  • Renji Abarai
  • Byakuya Kuchiki
  • Gin Ichimaru
  • Kenpachi Zaraki
  • Sōsuke Aizen
• Other characters by race (short faction descriptions and links to secondary lists go here)
  • Human
  • Shinigami
  • Hollow
  • Arrancar
  • Bount
  • Visored
• Reception
• References and whatnot

Note that for my definition of "primary character", I limited myself strictly to main team members and major recurring antagonists, and ordered by introduction. If the list seems long, blame Kubo's addiction to character creation and realize that's less than 10% of Bleach's total cast. (Ulquiorra, Grimmjow, and Nel will probably need added to that list as well if they keep up their importance through another arc or two.)

So, questions? Suggestions? Feedback? --erachima talk 09:36, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I fully agree, this page needs a major overhaul, starting with how its arranged. That seems like a good starting point to me, particularly since Kubo loves making characters who are not clearly protagonists and antagonists. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 17:23, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I, too, agree that the page needs to be rearranged and rewritten. Actually, it confused me quite a bit even though I'm very familiar with the Bleach universe, the alphabetical arrangement makes no sense and the descriptions are a little shortcoming at times. Akke Bandvagn (talk) 19:08, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't think that dividing characters by race is the best solution, but I can't think of anything else... -- DEERSTOP (talk). 13:58, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

List of Bleach characters and List of Bleach antagonists per the Naruto character lists is far more efficient. Suigetsu 21:51, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Bleach characters do not sort neatly into such categories. Mayuri Kurotsuchi, for instance: would he be listed as an antagonist for being blatantly evil and having an enemy role in the SS arc, or as a "character" for his later role as an ally in the HM arc? --erachima talk 22:59, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Whichever classification they have assumed for longer. Gaara is an antagonist in Naruto when first introduced, but has since then become an ally to the series' protagonists. As such, he is not listed at List of Naruto antagonists. An easy determining factor for Bleach is: does the character work for/with Aizen? Mayuri does not satisfy that criterion at the moment, so he wouldn't be listed as an antagonist. ~SnapperTo 01:28, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Aizen's been the antagonist for less time than Soul Society, actually, though the time's rapidly approaching even now. --erachima talk 01:38, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

If you want to be technical, he was only an "ally" from chapter 79 ([roughly] his introduction) to 169; 90 chapters total. In all of the 157 chapters since then, plus the 12 Turn Back the Pendulum chapters, he has been an antagonist. Then there's all the additional anime moments that add to his antagonistic repertoire... You get the idea. ~SnapperTo 17:50, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Odd point, AnmaFinotera, weren't you against noting Grimmjow as a major antagonist at some point? Suigetsu 22:19, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

I can't recall. I probably supported merging him to a list, but can't remember speaking about his being a major antagonist. As for the Naruto comparison, I believe that was done as a split for size, not from the get go (but may be misremembering). -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 22:38, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

I definitely agree that sorting Bleach characters into "good" and "bad" guys isn't easy, but as Snapper explained, if he works for or with Aizen, he can be considered an antagonist. Naruto characters are like that too, with Gaara and co. being antagonists early on then changing to protagonists, and they're still able to divide those characters into a proper category, see what I'm saying? 207.80.142.5 (talk) 13:13, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

What should we do with the list of shinigami, then? ^^ -- DEERSTOP (talk). 20:05, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Get rid of it. Redirect it to List of Bleach characters. 70.138.167.143 (talk) 12:01, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

List of Bleach characters is going to be enormous in size. -- DEERSTOP (talk). 12:18, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Right now, the current consensus is a central list here, and one or two selected "species" lists. I think, when all are brought up to snuff and rewritten, we could then look at merging together similar to List of Naruto characters, which does have a rather large cast as well. Though if we do end up splitting for size, I'm thinking maybe a species split rather than protagonist/antagonist might be better. May characters are rather ambigious that I think we'd end up having to source the claims that a character is one or the other. -- AnmaFinotera (talk ·

contribs) 13:51, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Should Yoshino Soma end up in Characters or Antagonists? She's only an antagonist for like, 2 episodes. Suigetsu 16:41, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

What about geographic first? Living World, Soul Society, Hueco Mundo - then pick who you want to highlight under each. That has nothing to do with 'species' or alignment. Isshin and Urahara would be Living World because it's their theatre of operations; Nel would be Hueco Mundo no matter how allied she is with Ichigo. Wouldn't that make it a lot easier? Corgi (talk) 16:57, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Relatively minor point to make (I agree with this idea), but Hitsugaya should definitely be on the Main characters list. He's played a larger role in the story than most of the characters on that list, had his own spinoff movie, etc. As far as splitting the remaining characters up, by race/designation makes the most sense. Antagonist leaves more room to interpretation, while going by Human/Shinigami/Arrancar/what have you leaves us with cold, hard facts.Kuwabaratheman (talk) 00:10, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Problem with adding Hitsugaya is that, despite being insanely popular, he's had pretty much no influence on the plot. Nobody's arguing he shouldn't have an article, by the way, it's just that since he doesn't qualify as a major protagonist or antagonist he doesn't really fit into the main character list. --erachima talk 01:17, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, by that logic, we shouldn't include Chad or Kenpachi in major characters, and Urahara and Yoruichi would be questionable. I mean, I love Chad and Kenpachi, but they've had pretty much no influence on the plot. I'd say Hitsugaya at least qualifies as a significant protagonist since he was basically the driving force for the whole 'traitor' plot line in the Soul Society arc, which was very important to the overall story.Kuwabaratheman (talk) 01:24, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Kenpachi's a major antagonist/ally, Chad's a major protagonist, Urahara's a major protagonist (c.f. Turn Back the Pendulum, where he's the main character) and I agree that we may need to slice Yoruichi from the list. As for the traitor subplot, it featured 4 characters at roughly equal prominence (Aizen, Gin, Hitsugaya, and Hinamori).

If you'd prefer a clearer wording for the criteria, Bleach's major characters consist of Ichigo, his closest allies, and the main enemies. Does that satisfy you? --erachima talk 01:36, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Good idea. It will sure improve a lot.Tintor2 (talk) 17:07, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Exactly why is Kenpachi considered a major antagonist? One fight against Ichigo does not equate to "major" nor "antagonist," and after the Soul Society arc all the Soul Reapers become protagonists or allies thereof. 207.80.142.5 (talk) 18:40, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Erachima did not consider Kenpachi a major antagonist.Tintor2 (talk) 18:43, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Actually, if you look above, I did say that. Though I was referring to his combined role when I said he was "major", not just his antagonist role, so I've clarified it. --erachima talk 19:19, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

That works. Can someone take care of the Hitsugaya, Tosen, and Urahara merges so we can get started on this? Suigetsu 23:27, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

All merges ended. It sure will be cool.Tintor2 (talk) 17:50, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

So what racial lists are we keeping? Suigetsu 23:30, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I think the merge of lists should be made later. As noted above the series has lots of characters. I guess Bounts are a bit minor considering they are only filler characters, though I havent watched that arc. The new characters of the filler arc could also be removed. Also could be removed Hisana Kuchiki since she is only mentioned in the articles of Byakuya and Rukia. Also, some Visoreds seem pretty minor and only Shinji and Hiyori seem notable.Tintor2 (talk) 00:20, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Nah, the Visoreds ought to be left. If we leave Espada and Soul Reapers in their lists, even in the case of minor characters like Zennosuke and Luppi, we should leave the Visoreds in. Suigetsu 20:44, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm extremely concerned about what's happening here. Not so long ago, it seems, I had access to a nice Wiki about all the different Bounts, with the names of their dolls and the meaning of those names; now, it's gone, and in its place is a single paragraph in passing about what the Bounts are and a couple of their names. Why? I know Bleach has a lot of characters, and not so many people enjoy the filler guys, but why completely remove this information? You can't even (as far as I know) look at older versions, because the "List of Bounts" page has been annihilated. I'm not trying to be dramatic, but removing characters just because they're "sort of non-prominent" would be like erasing pages on William Henry Harrison or Rutherford B. Hayes because they were "fairly minor presidents." Irretrievable deletion of info seems contrary to Wikipedia's goal; I'm not saying every character, including "man with funny hat" needs a page, but why do we need to erase Ichigo's mother, and Hisana? Please explain to me some solution to this eradication of data. Adam Restling (talk) 10:13, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Information can still be found if you know where to look. Exploring page histories will help you find what has been removed from Wikipedia. ~SnapperTo 18:51, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for that. But I still don't know why such deletions need take place. By this logic, Grimmjow's Resurrección should be eliminated because it's only (so far) been used once. It wasn't so long ago that Zommari Leroux's Gemelos Sonido was bafflingly excised. Once again, I understand that the volume of characters can become copious, but that's why I thought the older articles were the best. "List of Bleach characters" gave quick summaries, with links to pages with more info on characters about whom more data was available. In a case such as Ichigo's mother who, though an important influence on her family (and Ichigo in particular), is relatively unelaborated, the quick word could be used. But for characters like the Bounts (as controversial as they may be), with varied members and info, a summary could be provided for the less-inclined with a "Main article" link for the more curious: you streamline for erstwhile, casual browsers, but provide for the avid learner. This is why guidebooks and paraphernalia for these shows are produced; people want to know more. And those that don't, won't. One group shouldn't be slighted for the other; both should be provided for. This isn't "Wiki-Cliff Notes." Simplify the basic pages, but leave ways to read more open to those who want them. This is what drew--and continues to draw--me to Wiki in the first place. Please. What are your thoughts (and sorry for the length)? Adam Restling (talk) 05:00, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

A large sect of editors want Wikipedia to be scholarly in nature, which means cutting down on fiction's dominating amount of coverage. To that end, Bleach articles focusing predominately on in-universe topics are reduced to the essentials (both in number and content). I don't mind this to the point that the information that remains still makes sense (Rukia and Byakuya's backgrounds are legible without Hisana having her own entry), but a paragraph for all the Bount seems the opposite of this (one sentence for one character is of sparse informational value and resembles something closer to trivia). But I don't watch the anime, so I have no knowledge of what is both essential and missing (and admittedly have little concern for its absence).</parenthetical> ~SnapperTo 06:32, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

I still wish this cabal would adopt a more laissez-faire attitude to fiction. There is no reason why a world-wide-web database open to all cannot include both focuses on fiction of various genres and more "scholarly" non-fiction, to exist in parts as guide and referential encyclopedia; any stuff-shirt who regards fiction askance can merely ignore its articles, and those with broader minds can look up their favorite media programs along with researching, say, history papers. To root out great passages of information because of some notion that they're too juvenile or trivial will leave Wikipedia, in its wonderful vastness and openness--to be perused and enjoyed at-will as much or as little as one wants--as something akin to a book with hundreds of randomly-missing pages, divested of the spirit of curiosity that, whether they want to admit it or not, drives the creation of materials such as Wiki and, indeed, all information/entertainment. Adam Restling (talk) 22:46, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

In rewriting

Done some rewriting but it still needs work. Does naybody agree on removing some filler characters (except for the mod souls) from the list. I removed Hisana Kuchiki and Masaki since they have minor participance.Tintor2 (talk) 19:20, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

imo, get rid of the modsouls, they have no plot significance except in crappy filler arcs that in turn have no plot significance Suigetsu 20:42, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

They appear more often, than for example Sōken Ishida. -- DEERSTOP (talk). 00:37, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

But Soken's appearances are fairly important plot-wise, a la restoring Uryu's powers, and he ought to be in there by virtue of being the other last Quincy. 207.80.142.5 (talk) 19:19, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Double redirect

Please see Bount (protected) and redirect it to the correct section:
#REDIRECT [[List of Bleach characters#Bounts]]{{CharR to list entry|Bleach}}
Joshua Issac (talk) 23:42, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

I've left an edit protect request on its talk page. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 00:08, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Filler Characters should stay

All of the filler characters that are still on this list should probably stay there. The mod souls absolutely, it doesn't matter what you think of them quality wise, they are major characters in about 40 episodes of the anime, and countine to appear frequently after that. At the very least, keep the girl(can't remember he name tho.)

For the list for soul reapers, Maki Ichinose is probably fine to stay, but if you insist, I guess he could go.

The section for bounts should have a header for Kariya. Being the main villian of that arc and a huge presence throughout it, I really think he should at least have more of a mention then "both koga and kariya..." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.87.69.48 (talk • contribs) 13:53, October 16, 2008

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but how can you have a list for the 3 filler modsouls but not the Bounts? If we're going based on appearances during the Arrancar arc, at the very least Kariya should be listed considering he appears during Ichigo's battle with his inner hollow. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.208.166.167 (talk) 07:33, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

"IGN criticized the Bounts as being "lame bad guys," noting that the bittō in particular were like "something straight out of a bad sci-fi movie," but admitted they were "decent plot devices" to develop the other characters." Shouldn't this be in the reception section?--Mgbenz (talk) 16:14, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Visoreds merge

In keeping with the Bleach clean up, I have been cleaning the Visoreds deleting minor details in this sandbox. The weight of the Visoreds does not seem to be a problem to merge and none of them assert notability. Please discuss.Tintor2 (talk) 22:31, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

• As long as it's not as messed up as the bount merge, I can see something like this working. Sasuke9031 (talk) 02:05, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
• I agree, I can't see any reason for Visoreds having their own article/list. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 02:06, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Wouldn't they be be better of as part of the list of shinigami page rather than this one as all of them without exception were shinigami86.141.162.246 (talk) 16:07, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

The Soul Reaper list is getting big, so the vizard, like Urahara and company, are put here where size is less of an issue. ~SnapperTo 19:09, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Lead image

When looking for a lead image for the article I found two good candidates. The current favorite depicts just the main cast as is done with List of Naruto characters. Which is fine. The second choice depicts basically every character in the series up through chapter 50. I'm somewhat partial to the second because it depicts the main cast, Kon, the Urahara Shop (sans Yoruichi), Ichigo's family, and a few other topics made reference to (hollows, Orihime's spirits, etc.). In other words, it's 4+ images at once. Since there's no reason why just two people should make the decision, what do others think? ~SnapperTo 04:22, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

I think, reduced down to the necessary size for fair use, the second one would be very squished and too unclear to use. I also think its fine just having the main cast in the lead image, as they are the primary characters. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 04:28, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

See, I'd completely forgotten about its scaled-down size. At the thumbnail size of 180px the image is useless, and there's no point in having an image just to force users to visit the image page. First image it is then, unless someone has a better idea? ~SnapperTo 05:08, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

First image is better. Might be a better collage somewhere, but this one looks pretty good. — sephiroth bcr ^(converse) 05:09, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

I guess a better image could have Ichigo as Soul Reaper but I couldnt find anything.Tintor2 (talk) 15:24, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Regarding Vaizards and "officiality"

As far as the vast majority of the Bleach community is concerned, the original chapters are Canon. The anime cannot be considered empirically canon as the studio often insert their own additions that were not in the original Manga (for example, in the most recent Episode (196) they had Byakuya fully name the technique that Yoruichi teaches him, something like Special Ops Shihouin technique 4: Molting Cricket in the sub, not only did Byakuya not name the technique, he also did not mention how many techniques Yoruichi taught him, the studio have now essentially forced Kubo to have at least four, even if he doesn't release them). The English dubs are even further in canonical content from the English subtitles, which are more so than the Anime RAWS. My issue is that you regard "Visored" as the official term because Viz uses it when it is far from Canon. It is also their name, and as such there can be no "official" spelling. Jimmie's name is spelt "ie" you cannot tell him that it is wrong and should be spelt with a "y". Admittedly that is a poor analogy I shall concede. I also take issue with something Ynhockey said concerning pronunciation of "Vaizard" and that they it doesn't make sense as this would be pronounced "VEY-zard". Pronunciation is all down to regional dialect. I personally choose to pronounce it VI-zard yet spell it Vaizard. As for any reply concerning "The Queen's English", the mere concept of it is in itself flawed. The Queen is German. 82.45.60.195 (talk) 21:26, 2 December 2008 (UTC)Pumpkin

That's your view, but per all relevant Wikipedia guidelines, yes there IS an OFFICIAL spelling. Viz owns the license for printing the series in English, not illegal fansubbers and scanslators. They get to decide what the English names are for all things relevant to their property, not some fictional Bleach community that only represents a minority of the series fans (the bulk of whom are unaware of any other possible way to even write/spell half the words). Visored is what Viz uses, so it IS the official English word, whether you like it or not. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 21:34, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

The Viz also improperly translates statements, such as Captain Kuchiki's release command: they stated that it was "die" instead of "scatter." Also as a native Japanese speaker, "visored" would be "vaizourudo" or "vaizoudo" in katakana. Because Tite Kubo takes words from Spanish, "vizard" is the most proper translation of "vaizaado", and it specifically refers to a mask. "Visored" does not etymologically refer to a mask, rather it refers to something being covered. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.168.62.73 (talk) 01:30, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

That is your personal view, but since they are the professionals and we are not, we will use what they use. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 01:35, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Ryūgen Ishida

Bleach's official character book SOULs lists his name as Ryūgen Ishida and as so I've gone ahead and changed it in the places I've found. If you come across anymore, be sure to change it to the correct name.

Proof being found here [1]

Edit I've added that it is romanized as 'Ryūgen' rather than change everything, much the same as Izuru's section mentioning his name is romanized as 'Iduru' DaisukeVulgar (talk) 20:42, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

What is used in the English manga or is not to that point yet? -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 22:09, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

The one with the "k". ~SnapperTo 00:03, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Cool...BTW, should we stick some kind of guide at the top of this talk to note the various ones that are regularly changed? Would help to have place to check on days when they get really happy. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 03:45, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Captains and lieutenants?

I cannot find an article of the captains and lieutenants of the soul society. Does anyone know where it is? and if there isn't one, shouldn't we make one?

There's official art from tite kubo showing all 14 lieutenants (the 14th one was the one that got killed by Rukia trying to save her but i completely forgot his name). maybe we can use that for the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Haseo445 (talk • contribs) 16:53, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Have you tried looking here? List of Soul Reapers in Bleach, that is where all the Captain and Lieutenant information is stored. Fyi, you're thinking of Kaien Shiba, and there is only 13 captains/lieutenants for Seireitei, with a 14th entitled 'Zero Division', which resides in the King's Realm. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 17:23, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Reference on Rukia's age

Can someone please put a reference to where they found that Rukia is 150 years old? I haven't read the manga, but I'm up to about episode 160 in the anime, and I don't remember anyone every saying how old she really was. Reference, please?--I reject your reality, and substitute my own. 07:01, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

She says she's ten time older than Ichigo in chapter one, which would make her about 150. Since the series doesn't actually do the math I switched it to the vaguer statement. ~SnapperTo 18:50, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

spiritually aware?

how are keigo and mizouru spiritaully aware???? they havent shown anything that specializes them —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.249.176.77 (talk) 17:41, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Does seeing Ikkaku and Yumichika fight count, or are you not quite at that point? Sasuke9031 (talk) 17:46, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

I would think that because they are aware of the spirits around them, that they are in fact, spiritually aware. SirHat —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.6.54.211 (talk) 02:25, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

i honestly dont think that one counts.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.36.116.43 (talk) 05:01, 8 March 2009

Keigo can see shinigami when they're out of their gigai, particularly Ikkaku and Yumichika. He can see hollows, including arrancar, which would be Edorad when he's fighting Ikkaku. If that is not spiritually aware then Ichigo at the start of Bleach is also not spiritually aware by your logic. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 05:21, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I might not be up to you guys, but can you mention that episode? the only time i saw keigo seeing someone was when in the bountuo arc and them him seeing a shinigami (though he stated everyone could see him.

still i would like to know the manga number or anime episode number. i dont care about being spoiled, or anything, jsut want to know if they really are spiritually awareHaseo445 (talk) 17:40, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

EDIT: ok you guys said keigo, but this is about both keigo and mizouru. so how is he spiritually aware?Haseo445 (talk) 17:42, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

How about the simple question...does anyone in the series say either is spiritually aware? If not, just note they can see Soul Reapers et al, rather than trying to determine what that means. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 17:45, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Whilst Ikkaku is fighting Edorad, Keigo has a conversation with Yumichika as seen in Bleach volume 23 , whilst the latter was out of his gigai. If that isn't proof that he can not only see shinigami, but that he is spirtually aware, then I don't know what is. As for Mizuru, I haven't looked back through every volume I have, so I have nothing to say for him. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 16:02, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Remember WP:V not truth. That's still personal interpretation. It shows that Keigo can see and converse with a Soul Reaper, not that he is "spiritually aware" And come to think of it, do they even use that phrase in the series? I don't remember seeing it and I've read up through 26 (need to reread though, especially the latter).-- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 16:38, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

very well keigo can stay, though mizuru, should not be mentioned as spiritaully aware.Haseo445 (talk) 16:48, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

VISORED???

isnt ichigo technically a visored?DeathDeathBerry talk 17:53, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, if you go by the fact that he has a hollow mask and all that then yes, however, the true visoreds are a very cohesive group of individuals, and Ichigo pretty much hates their guts, so it's up in the air, and up in the air info = not included. Sasuke9031 (talk) 18:06, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

a visored is a general term of shinigami's who have hollow mask to increase there power. anyways....it doesnt matter. though he is one of them and ichigo doesn't really hate them, he just doesn't want no part of there plan (even tohugh he already joined)DeathBerry talk 17:17, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Picture?

Just wondering if the picture could be changed.

Although they have a large role in the series, the picture at the top doesn't really represent the "Major" characters overall. It just kinda shows the major characters of the first few chapters, cause after that, the series focuses less and less on the characters pictured (aside from Ichigo, Orihime, and Uryu), and the captains pretty much have an equal starring role. Could we get a picture that shows like the Gotei 13, Ichigo, Orihime, Uryu, and Chad? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.202.97.110 (talk) 21:09, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

The problem is that it's difficult to find an image where all of those characters are depicted at the same time. If you can find a good alternative I'd be happy to upload it for you. ~SnapperTo 21:45, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

There's a picture of "all colour but the black" that shows all the main soul reapers and ichigo? and you can also keep the picture we have here, dont you think that sounds better?DeathBerry talk 15:42, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I had a look for you but all I could find in there was this: [2] which wouldn't work at all. --Suki Dakara 17:39, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

In the latest opening video from the anime, there is a shot of Ichigo, Rukia, Uryu, Chad, Renji, Orihime and other Soul Reapers from the series. I think it would look good in the article but I don't know how to get it.Tintor2 (talk) 02:39, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

More Indepth Character Guide

Why do we not have a guide with all the captains and their wepons shikai and bankai states names and powers. While we're at it we should do the Espada as well because these characters are important and need to be noted and respected.--69.136.50.184 (talk) 15:01, 20 July 2009 (UTC)The Bleach Guru

Because this is an encyclopedia and not a fansite and character lists are only for brief overviews not cruft. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 16:27, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Also, the Espada are listed in the List of hollows in Bleach. --Suki Dakara 18:14, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

I think he's right, a character should have all of its information BECAUSE this is an encyclopedia, but anyway, why is Zennosuke not listed. He does appear if not only minorly. He does have a shikai and is deserving of a small bio. He is unmetioned and he should be noted as he is the official shinigami in charge of Karakura. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.53.133.26 (talk) 01:55, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Is that important to the series? That information would suitable in the Bleach wiki. This is an encyclopedia not a fansite.Tintor2 (talk) 02:25, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't think Wikipedia has to cover every single character in Bleach. Zennosuke has only had a couple of appearances and isn't really a major recurring character. I myself have wondered whether or not Don Kanonji is a relevant character but I don't think he is. Evilgidgit (talk) 20:38, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Zennosuke's the afro guy, right? The manga says he was a stand-in for Rukia since she was sentenced to exicution at the time he was introduced. He's really just a comic relief character and not really deserving of a mention in the article in my opinion. If you disagree, feel free to do so. 75.157.115.154 (talk) 06:11, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Misuse of a quote

In the Reception part of the article, it quotes an internet site as saying: "However, the reviewer commented that it is hard to take the series serious when one of the arrancar is called Grimmjow Jeager-Jacques in the manga."

When in fact the full quote is: "I mean, it's very difficult to take a book seriously when one of its main characters is named "Grimmjow Jeager-Jacques", but damned if this book doesn't pull it off."

Only half the quote has been put in, so its meaning has been twisted by the editor. I do not know how to edit properly, but it needs to either be reworded to show the full quote, or removed altogether. Chrissd21 (talk) 04:00, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Then please be bold. I'm a bit inactive nowadays.Tintor2 (talk) 23:13, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

merge

Given that there has been a reasonable timeframe of 6 months since the tags on the soul repear page about it being too in-universe and that Wikipedia has been moving to consolidate excessive character lists for other such works there is no reason to have a seperate list here. A list of every major character can be consolidated in one list quite easily; see List of One Piece characters as proof of such a concept. This merge proposal is just about the lists; not about indivisual characters.陣内_Jinnai 18:56, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

I think merging the hollow page first would be better as that's a smaller list. By the way, the One Piece list could still be trimmed.Tintor2 (talk) 17:39, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Probably, for OP, but the point made was for a long-running series with many characters it was all fit on one page. As for the order, if you think the Hollow page would be easier, then that's fine.陣内_Jinnai 17:44, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

I wonder if the list should be reorganized as there is no antagonist list and while some hollows are not antagonists (Nel) some Soul Reapers are (Aizen).Tintor2 (talk) 17:50, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Generally, if you can, its always best to use protagonist/anatagonist/other classifications. It's not always possible I'll admit. In any event the classification should generally not use plot devices which in this instance would be Hollow, Soul Reaper, etc. unless you have a lot of "other" characters.陣内_Jinnai 17:57, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Um, guys? Bleach has loads and loads of characters. I'm concerned that a merged article would be unnavigable.--Rmky87 (talk) 20:41, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

There are so many characters that are notable inside Bleach universe and not notable for the real world, I have no idea how to put them all into one list. -- deerstop. 20:43, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

I agree that merging the pages will bring lots of weight issues besides lots of discussion about what characters are notable (vice-captain does blah blah...). However, some parts of the hollow and Soul Reaper lists are very detailed and they sure need some clean up (in some arrancar, it is even described their appearances with lots of details).Tintor2 (talk) 00:47, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

"Delete, delete, delete." is ultimately what will occur if a merger happens. Section lengths will be reduced drastically, some of the minor, less noteworthy characters will be removed entirely, and almost nobody will be happy with the end result. You may as well merge the List of Hollows page into this one, and, heck, why not Ichigo's, Rukia's , Aizen's, and all the other characters' pages? It's what happened with the Inuyasha page once the manga ended, so why not do it to the Bleach pages, or to the Naruto pages, or, heck, to all the manga/anime pages? It's what's gonna happen anyway once they end, so why not just get it over with? Note, I am being sarcastic. I do not support any of the above actions taking place. 75.157.115.154 (talk) 06:07, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

You may want to read some wikipedia guidelines before making such a big oppose such as WP:Notability, or WP:Fancruft. Most individual characters articles actually pass notability requirements so most of them don't need to be merged. If you want articles for every character or a list for every race go to the Bleach wikia or a fansite.Tintor2 (talk) 16:26, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

That's not what I said. It really doesn't matter to me whether or not the List of Shinigami/Soul Reapers in Bleach is merged to this page or not. Although, you say "Most individual characters articles actually pass notability requirements so most of them don't need to be merged," but the trend I've seen with the anime articles on Wikipedia is that all of the articles are consolidated into one once it's finished. And Bleach Wiki - and all the other anime fansite wikis for that matter - are more or less cut and paste from Wikipedia back when the articles were full of original research and speculation and had plot summaries that were ten or more paragraphs long. I'm not saying that was a good thing, or that I want Wikipedia to go back to being like that, because it was rather disorganized and hard to make sense of. I'm just pointing out the trend I mentioned earlier. Wikipedia's better for another reason: no computer viruses - which Bleach Wiki has, FYI. 75.157.115.154 (talk) 17:38, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

If a Anime/manga character article from wiki was merged was because it was against guidelines. The Bleach and Naruto individual character articles already have what they take to avoid any merging (though some still need work). The point is that the Bleach lists are still rather unnorganized, as they include characters that have appeared very little in the series, while some have lots of details (all the Espada's transformations are highly explained while Kouga Kuchiki's section is very long considering he appeared for less than six episodes). I haven't never read all of Inuyasha's chapters so I'm not very familiar with the characters that appear in the series, but I know that minor characters from the series like Kagome's young brother were removed for good.Tintor2 (talk) 17:59, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Um, I'm not too informed on this argument but I still want to put my two cents in. Despite how unorganized some "lists" articles, especially those associated with animes/mangas, can be, I still appreciate them for their ease of reference. The point of articles like List of Soul Reapers in Bleach is to expand on a subtopic that has so much more underlying content that cannot be expressed on the main page without making it either disorderly or way too long. And speaking of the latter, isn't there some sort of wiki guideline that opposes extremely long articles? I've seen a warning at the top of a page before that states the article is "too long" and suggests that certain sections should be made into sub-articles (or other pages, can't remember what the exact terminology was) to cut down the article length. So wouldn't merging the soul reaper list article with the main Bleach article ultimately merit this request? Unless you cut out A LOT of the content, something someone above has already reasoned against. In short, I just wanted to say that articles like List of Soul Reapers in Bleach are great tools for quickly looking something specific about a character that you were curious about or read before and just couldn't remember. It's an easy "fact-checker," which is what I love best about Wikipedia as a whole. Having this side article is like being able to flip to a nicely organized (this can be achieved!), designated page to learn more about something referenced in a general index. Cutemoron16 19:09, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

As most of that expansion would be in-universe, that fails WP:WAF and WP:SALAT reason splitting. There is no reason why you couldn't put all the articles under one banner and have all that same info. It is a bit different with indivisual characters that may have a lot of production info and critical analysis on them.陣内_Jinnai 01:08, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Actually, there is a very pressing reason: a combined list would be over 200 kilobytes long after we cut out the relatively insignificant characters, before we expanded the major character entries to WP:FL standards, and this is for a broad definition of "relatively".
I urge editors on both sides of the aisle here to remember that the goal for inclusion of in-universe info is not comprehensiveness, but is comprehensibility. I am all for the limitation of individual character pages to characters about which we can deliver more than plot information, and the tightening up of prose within the lists, but the lists cannot be effectively merged, especially not if we wish to bring them to featured list quality, which for lists of characters requires paragraphs to pages of information on each character. --erachima talk 01:41, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

The Hōgyoku's True Powers

The article says that "the Hōgyoku (崩玉?, "breakdown sphere"), [is] a device that mixes Soul Reapers with hollows." According to the latest chapter, it does all that, and more... it was what let Rukia transfer her shinigami powers to Ichigo and what gave Orihime and Chad their powers. This definitely needs to be added in somewhere. 75.157.115.154 (talk) 06:07, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Then please wait until a bigger definition of Hogyoku's power to avoid unneeded weekly updates.Tintor2 (talk) 16:23, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm thinking that was the "bigger definition" of the Hōgyoku's powers. Everyone, including its creator, thought it just turned Shinigami into Visords and Hollows into Arrancar, but, no, it's sentient and it's true power is to grant the wishes of its wielder. It just "mixes Soul Reapers with Hollows" because that's what the people using it wanted it to do and all they thought it could do. At least, that's what Aizen - who, judging by his earlier statements, could have been lying - said. 75.157.115.154 (talk) 17:45, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Considering what was happening in the latest chapter to Aizen's appearance, a bigger definition may come as you said "and more". Besides, such info should only be added to places where it is important like Aizen's article while the mention in Urahara's section should only be modified a bit.Tintor2 (talk) 18:03, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

I did add it to Aizen's article. I suggest modifying the bit in Uruhara's section from "a device that mixes Soul Reapers with hollows." to "a device that grants its wielder's wishes." 75.157.115.154 (talk) 19:13, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Yep, but it wouldn't make sense with the following sentence, considering Urahara did not know it.Tintor2 (talk) 19:16, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

So how should we change it? "initially believed to mix Soul Reapers with Hollows"? What do you suggest? 75.157.115.154 (talk) 21:47, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

The way it is now seems okay as it mentions one of its functions and explains Urahara's concern with it.Tintor2 (talk) 23:23, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Maybe, but it only mentions one of its functions in a way that makes it sound like that's it's only function. 75.157.115.154 (talk) 03:44, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

It does not state it is it's only function. Besides, such info is better in Aizen's article or in some weeks in Urahara's if he explains something about it.Tintor2 (talk) 13:38, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Ichigo's Dad

Both Ichigo and Isshin Kurosaki have the same zanpakuto technique, Getsuga Tensho, as revealed in the latest chapter. I think that this should be included in Isshin's section, so I will include it. Whether this means they have the same zanpakuto or whether zanpakuto abilities are inherited is mere speculation, but I think that the fact that they have the same powers should be included. 75.157.78.82 (talk) 17:49, 27 May 2010 (UTC) Simmilar, yes. Same? no. Isshin's Zanpakutō's name is Engetsu. Ichigo's Zanpakutō's name is Zangetsu. Divinity76 (talk) 13:20, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

VIZARDS

its NOT Visoreds. not in the original manga, and NOT in the dub manga- http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100423090414/bleach/en/images/d/dc/VizVolume21Vizard.jpg --98.117.175.177 (talk) 16:48, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

It was used in the following volumes as seen here.Tintor2 (talk) 19:52, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

This spelling dispute is actually on WP:LAME, did you know that? The short answer to the argument is that both terms are incorrect. "Visoreds" is grammatical butchery, as it means they are calling them "maskeds". "Vizards" rhymes with "wizards", is an archaic term, and means the wrong thing. The characters in question should be called "a visored" singly and "the visored" collectively, but that usage is not supported by any source, and (per WP:NAME and some other stuff) Wikipedia can't just make up names where official ones exist, even if the official ones are wrong. --erachima talk 20:57, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I agree, there is no decent proof to spell it "Vizored" apart from wikipedian's trying to be pedantic about english spelling. However, we are dealing with non-english translations here. Please cite sources for it to be called "vizored".— Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.148.187.154 (talk) 07:30:14, 16 Ocotober 2010 (UTC)

New Characters

There are several new characters that need to be added such as Kugo Ginjo--150.212.72.23 (talk) 18:56, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

I have noticed that some of the other classmates of Ichigo Kurosaki aren't listed here. Also, there is no section for the Spirits of the Zanpakutō save for a bio for Muramasa. I'm thinking of adding the Zanpakutō Spirits to this page just like I did with the Fraccion of the Arrancar army. Rtkat3 (talk) 10:49, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

File:Bounts.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Bounts.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations What should I do?

Speedy deletions at commons tend to take longer than they do on Wikipedia, so there is no rush to respond. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs. A further notification will be placed when/if the image is deleted. This notification is provided by a Bot, currently under trial --CommonsNotification (talk) 08:53, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

New Villain

Kūgo Ginjō is the true villain of the Substitute Soul Reaper arc. He was the one who attacked Ishida, and then had Tsukishima stab him from behind and modify his memories to appear as an enemy so that Ginjō could gain Ichigo's trust. When Tsukishima stabbed him again from the front it removed the hypnosis and Ginjō attacked Ichigo. I've added the relevent details to their sections. 207.216.222.107 (talk) 01:38, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Ginjō's Bankai

Ginjo did NOT say that that he had absorbed Ichigo's Inner Hollow. He said that "All of us [Xcution]... have parents who were attacked by Hollows before we were born. That means... I've got some Hollow in me, same as you." I've taken that part out because it's speculation. 199.60.151.2 (talk) 23:47, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Xcution backstory

Ginjo's version of Xcution's backstory was told to Ichigo while Ginjo memories were modified. Specifically, the story of Fullbringers giving up their powers to a Soul Reaper is highly questionable as it was only a ploy to recruit Ichigo. For example, the Substitute badge of the murdered Soul Reaper that Ginjo showed Ichigo as "proof" of the massacre was Ginjo's own badge. Aside from this story no member of Xcution ever mentions former members by name or indicates that there were ever any other members than those that we see. Any mention of Xcution wanting to rid themselves of their powers should be deleted if used as backstory or placed in a plot area with details to indicate that it was a lie meant to fool Ichigo. Suggestions please.RMoribayashi (talk) 04:08, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Where's Isshin?

Isshin Kurosaki, Ichigo's father, is nowhere to be found. He's not anywhere on this page, nor is he on the Soul Reaper/Shinigami page. I haven't read/watched enough of Bleach to give an appropriate level of information on the character, but I have read and watched enough to know that his character is significant enough to deserve note. His background is, after all, part of what made Ichigo what he is. Someone please add him to the list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.32.145.62 (talk) 02:48, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

It appears User:TTN has been slowly attempting to rearrange the page. Isshin was on the list prior to these edits. --erachima talk 02:54, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Quincy

Okay we all know more Quincys and their names and abilities will be revealed so why not make a list of Quincys?--Toxin45 (talk) 22:37, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

To answer this question for the sake of posterity: because maybe two of the new Quincy are actually long-term plot-relevant. --erachima talk 22:01, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Zanpakutō Spirits

Do these characters really belong here? They're just anime - only filler characters who have absolutely no impact on the plot. They're just taking up space here. The only ones that are worth keeping are Zangetsu and Hollow Ichigo, who actually are from the manga and are important to the plot. Maybe we can keep Hyorinmaru and Zabimaru as they actually (but very briefly) appeared in the manga, but that's it. 81.241.133.138 (talk) 17:41, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Okay, it has been over a week and since nobody objected, I'm going to remove this. 91.179.164.136 (talk) 10:34, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

("I am replying to the above text. The Zanpakuto spirits deserve to be in this section. They are themselves beings inside each of their soul reaper. You get a good look at Zabimaru and Zangetsu in season 3. I also overheard that there was a season where the Zanpakutos left their sword forms and started to rebel against each of their soul reaper. I think that they need to be in this List of Bleach Characters.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.120.51.11 (talk) 14:06, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Proposed merge with List of Soul Reapers in Bleach

While this series has a large number of characters, three lists is just too many. Naruto must have around the same amount overall, and it manages to do well enough with List of Naruto characters. The two split lists do have their own reception, but it just seems overly selective in some cases and not really enough to support a lot of the really detailed info that belongs on Wikia. The Hollow list in particular could probably be cut down to 20kb even if it were to be left alone. Overall, the groupings should be trimmed down like the Naruto list, and the important characters should be given appropriate weight. TTN (talk) 18:00, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

• Support: I strongly support merging List of Soul Reapers in Bleach with this article. I also added merging tag for List of Hollows in Bleach as well. Details about some characters should be removed. Two or maximum three sentences are enough to describe a certain character. (Nightwolf87 (talk) 11:57, 28 March 2014 (UTC))
• Support: If the merge were to a new article named 'List of Characters in Bleach' or something otherwise generic. ♥ Solarra ♥ ^{♪ Talk ♪} ߷ _{♀ Contribs ♀} 13:37, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
• Support: Support both lists to merge. Major characters within Soul Society leadership can then be alphabetized, and minor characters for a Soul Society division can be listed under the captain of that division. If the identity of the team is foremost then group the characters in their divisions. -AngusWOOF (talk) 01:39, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose. Two relevant factors here. First, even in trimmed form --which the pages do need, so I thank you for the help there-- a single list will be unreadably long. Second, there is sufficient real-world content (i.e. production and reaction details) for Hollow and Shinigami that they could be their own articles. The current three-part list arrangement neatly solves both of these issues.
  As for Naruto, it absolutely qualifies for splitting on length, it simply lacks an equivalent natural division. --erachima talk 09:10, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose. Having three separate pages allows more "space" to categorizes the characters. AnimeEditior (talk) 13:03, 26 November 2014 (UTC) Update: They should stay separated, all the information cannot be crammed into one page. AnimeEditior (talk) 13:30, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Observation from a historian

"[Yuruichi] has never been seen wielding a zanpakutō in the current or gaiden storyline, though is shown carrying a kodachi-like blade during flashbacks."

This may - may - be due to japanese WWII culture, as during that war the officers were required to carry swords. Since she has a weapon but hasn't been seen using it (rather like Koga in InuYasha series) its is possible that the sword is meant to refer to her rank and not as an actual weapon. TomStar81 (Talk) 09:49, 2 April 2015 (UTC)