Talk:List of Presidents of the Congress under the Articles of Confederation

This article is misnamed

There was no such thing as a "United States President" under the Articles of Confederation. These men served as President of Congress, similar to the way the Vice President serves as President of the Senate. WCCasey (talk) 06:21, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

I've redirected it to President of the Continental Congress, though we may have to send this page to AFD if the creator reverts it or otherwise causes problems. - BilCat (talk) 14:17, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

his exact title: "President of the United States in Congress Assembled" 98.117.174.144 (talk) 13:42, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

This is not misnamed

Please notice that there were multiple names for this position. Besides, the page it redirects to covers a different subject. I will, however, create a redirect page that redirects List of Presidents of the Continental Congress to this article. Please do not change this or send it to AFD.

pluma (talk) 03:02, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the position and what it was. They were not "presidents" in the sense of the presidents under the US Contitution, and titling the article this way is misleading. This has been discussed in other places, particulary at Talk:President of the Continental Congress. By ignoring these previous consensuses, you leave us no choice by to hold an AFD discussion. - BilCat (talk) 04:42, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

When there are multiple names for something, we don't create a different article or list for each name. We arrive on the most accurate title as presented in notable and reliable sources, use that as the title for all related articles, and truly notable alternate monikers may be noted in the lead or further down in the text (depending on how notable or frequent the usage, as cited, not neologisms we craft ourselves) and create redirects with those names to the primary title.

This title will create a misperception, and as the list is short enough to appear (as it does) in the article about the subject, it doesn't need to be a discrete list without the context it apparently requires. "United States Presidents" is misleading verbiage, and it also reads too closely to presidents of the confederacy. At the moment, Wikipedia has decided that President of the Continental Congress is what they were, and so unless consensus is reached to change how we term these people, then that is what any article or list at Wikipedia should introductorily say they were. The technicality that the lone cheesy source uses to claim this was the first president of the United States is the suggestion that what existed under the Continental Congress was the same entity that existed after the U.S. Constitution. But regardless of what you call it, a constitution is a country, and when the constitution is completely rewritten, you have a completely different country as a result. It is a fascinating and important chapter of history, but an encyclopedia can't entitle an article citing a source that is using provocative hyperbole to tease readers with the POV of trivia.

And, as noted by another editor at Talk:President of the United States, "Presidents of the Congress" is already a subsection list at Articles of the Confederation.

I will support an AfD; provide a link to the AfD here. Abrazame (talk) 06:05, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

I also will support an AfD; provide a link to the AfD here. --JimWae (talk) 08:33, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Note that there was a previous article called President of the United States in Congress assembled, a more correct name, that was merged into President of the Continental Congress. Also, I'm a disaster at creating AFDs, so if someone else wants to go ahead and start it, I'd have no issue with that. - BilCat (talk) 09:05, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

"Repeal" section

I've removed the "Repeal" section of the article becuase this article is not about the Articles of Confederation themselves. Alss, the section contradicts the info in that article and in United States Constitution#Ratification and Inauguration of the new government. These articles state tha tthe governemt under the Articles was closed down in Feb 1789, and the new goverment inaugurated on March 4, 1789, not in 1790 as the section claimed. - BilCat (talk) 09:27, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Not Nesessary

I don't think its necessary to preserve an argument on a talk page. We should forget the argument and leave the article as it is. pluma (talk) 04:22, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

WP works by consensus. So far, there is no consensus here to keep this page. If you keep reverting the article and the talk page, you risk being blocked for edit warring. - BilCat (talk) 03:14, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Explanation

I am sorry for clearing the talk section without enough explanation. I thought the explanation above(I don't think its necessary to preserve an argument on a talk page. We should forget the argument and leave the article as it is.) would suffice. I will leave it as it is. I think this edit war should not go on. I am trying to preserve the article by not redirecting it to another article that covers a slightly different subject. The articles you direct it to are in the See Also section. Please, if you want to have others see the other pages instead, just add it to the See Also section. Please also note that you are the one who initiated this edit war, and so you would be the one who would be blocked if done justifiably. However, I would prefer that punishments were not dealt. The Presidents of the continental congress did not serve under any constitution. After the Articles of Confederation were put in action, the name of the congress was changed to the Congress of Confederation, and so the Continental Congress only had two presidents: Samuel Huntington and Thomas McKean.

I don't know why this isn't showing up right but Bilcat, please read it in the edit screen.

pluma (talk) 04:32, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

"Surrender"

I have made this page a redirect page merely because I don't want this edit war to continue. I would appreciate it if you could reconsider the destruction of this page, but someone has to end this, so I will. pluma (talk) 04:48, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome to make your case at Talk:President of the Continental Congress, and try to build a consensus to support a spearate article and/or list. However, article talk pages aren't appropriate palces for banners, or accusations of Cyberbullying. - BilCat (talk) 05:05, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Replacement

A few months ago, you and I had an edit war where you repeatedly redirected this page to President of the Continental Congress and I replaced the text. I recently remembered this confrontation, and I have decided that your removing of large portions of text falls under WP:VAND. If you wish, you may submit the article for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion.

Proposed merger from List of Presidents under the articles of confederation

See also: Talk:Articles of Confederation § Merger proposal

I propose that List of Presidents under the articles of confederation be merged into List of Presidents of the Congress under the Articles of Confederation. These articles are clearly a duplicate. While this one is orphaned, that can easily be remedied. They should be combined here and not the other page because the title of this article is more historically accurate and descriptive. JC1008 (talk) 15:30, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

• Redirect both to Articles of Confederation#Presidents of the Congress, as they are both duplicative of that list. -Rrius (talk) 20:57, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

That sounds best. Would you recommend doing that now, or leave the proposal open? --JC1008 (talk) 00:20, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

If you look through the edit histories, both articles were created by one person who has edit warred when other people redirected one way or the other, so I think we should notify that person. Then, enforcement will be easier if the edit warring starts again. -Rrius (talk) 05:50, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Both are not duplicate: Articles of Confederation#Presidents of the Congress begins with Samuel Huntington, while List of Presidents under the articles of confederation and List of Presidents of the Congress under the Articles of Confederation begin with John Hanson. This is because Hanson was the first President of Congress under the Articles of Confederation as opposed to the Congress that existed before the Articles were ratified.

That said, I agree with Rius' suggestion to redirect List of Presidents under the articles of confederation and List of Presidents of the Congress under the Articles of Confederation to Articles of Confederation#Presidents of the Congress, but then to remove the two Presidents listed before John Hanson there. Holdek (talk) 02:05, 21 September 2013 (UTC)