Talk:List of suicides in fiction

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Vergil[edit]

He did not kill himself he only stayed in the demon world. That is not suicide. Skele (talk) 14:58, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletion[edit]

This article was proposed for deletion. I object the deletion for following reasons: First, I don't think it is OR because for fictional works, one can always read the book, watch the movie or whatever, thus the entries in the article are sourced. Then, this article was split from the article list of suicides, which was already nominated for for deletion, but the result was keep. However, a nomination for Wikipedia:Articles for deletion nevertheless might be appropriate to discuss this more? --Cyfal (talk) 20:04, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

AfD done. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 16:42, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What is Suicide?[edit]

Just to clear up any doubt, it is not suicide if you get someone else to kill you. And it is not suicide if you are fighting when they kill you, no matter how hopeless the odds. DJ Clayworth (talk) 17:39, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Should we...?[edit]

Should we add a new article for self-sacrifice? I noticed that there is a lot of that in this article that doesn't belong. What do you guys think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Goldenmelody722 (talk • contribs) 23:52, September 17, 2009

No, considering this one is already up for deletion. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 05:04, 18 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Move to Fictional suicides[edit]

? Also the movie characters should be under their own names, not those of the actors'. Regulus Black was alive last I knew. Stellarkid (talk) 06:25, 28 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Notable?[edit]

The following I have removed due to lack of references.

A - B[edit]

  • Ward Abbott (The Bourne Supremacy), self-inflicted gunshot
  • John Abruzzi (Prison Break), suicide by police
  • Karen Barnes (Up in the Air) hangs herself
  • Hannah Baker (Thirteen Reasons Why) overdoses on pills
  • Fourth Admiral Belleza (Eternal Arcadia a.k.a. Skies of Arcadia), crashes her Flagship into Galcian's escape pod to prevent him from escaping
  • Billy Bibbit (One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest), slit his throat with a piece of broken glass
  • John Billings (The Patriot), shot himself in the head
  • Biscuit (Life), crosses the "gun line" after receiving his release papers
  • Regulus Black (Harry Potter), allows himself to drown after becoming disenchanted with Lord Voldemort
  • Woodrow "Woody" Blake (Mission to Mars), exposure to the vacuum of space
  • Blanche (Reefer Madness), defenistration
  • Bob the Cucumber (Drawn Together), self-inflicted gunshot wounds
  • Larry Bodine (New Mutants)
  • Emma Bovary (Madame Bovary), arsenic poisoning
  • Toot Braunstein (Drawn Together), hanging, self-inflicted beheading, defenestration
  • Elizabeth Bradford (One False Move), jumped from 3rd-floor balcony at her house
  • Brett (American Dad!), jumped from a skyscraper
  • Jack Bristow (Alias), sets off an explosion that buries Arvin Sloane alive
  • Nessie Brodie (Hatter's Castle), hangs herself after learning she has lost a scholarship
  • Adelaide Brooke (Doctor Who), shoots herself to fix the timeline changed by the Doctor
  • Hecky Brown (The Front), defenistration
  • Richard Brown (The Hours), defenestration
  • Bill Buchanan (24), creates an explosion that destroys most of Juma's attack force
  • Lily Buffay (Friends), put her head in the oven (was mentioned in a few episodes; in Phoebe's songs)
  • Rey Za Burrel (Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny) stays aboard the exploding Messiah

C - D[edit]

- Knowledgekid87 (talk) 15:01, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Do we need references if it mentions what book its from? Do you want actual page numbers? Dream Focus 12:46, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Post-AfD cleanup[edit]

Since the AfD closed as keep, I've gone through and removed anything that didn't have at least minimal references to address the propriety of inclusion, which was most of the material here. I'm a bit more aggressive than Knowledgekid87, obviously, but in my experience, this sort of aggressive removal improves lists more, and faster, than leaving a huge sea of unreferenced material and hoping it will be fixed. For the same reason, I tend not to move such material to the talk page, but a diff with the old material is here. I do think that the sourcing Knowledgekid87 has been adding is an improvement, however, it's best to remember that it's not sufficient just to establish that the relevant fictional work existed; references should address the actual suicide, and preferably the reason why the suicide is worthy of discussion ("notability"). Again, the removals are an attempt to see the article improved, not an attempt to injure it. — Gavia immer (talk) 13:56, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A notability guideline should be set up here for what is notable and what is not. This article also needs a rename as per keep consenses. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 14:22, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
You don't improve an article by removing most of its content. Do you doubt any of the primary sources for that information? If its from a television series, then the episode summaries from that show will list what episode it happened in. Need to sort the list into categories, for television, films, comic books, books, mythological legends, video games, etc. Dream Focus 13:16, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Rename to?[edit]

I am doing a rough consensus here to see where people stand on which way this article could steer. Please vote Support , Oppose , or Neutral with some reasoning behind it. If anybody wants to add more renaiming ideas please feel free to do so as this is just a rough consensus.

Rename to Suicide in fiction - Most likely wont be in list format but an overview of suicides in fiction and the impact they have.


Rename to List of notable suicides in fiction as per Farix, his reasoning was that "one has to verify that the fictional suicide is notable via reliable third-party sources" Will most likely remain in list format.

  • Neutral - A list is sounding more and more less favorable as if there are alot of notable suicides in fiction it will be hard to maintain. Knowledgekid87 (talk) 14:37, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not going to leave a "vote" here, but in my opinion, explicitly using "notable" in the title would be a bad idea. "Notability" as used in discussions on Wikipedia is a term of art that doesn't mean the same thing it does in the plain language, and when it appears in the lead or title of an article, it is usually talismanic - a sort of incantation against the suggestion that the article contents are not notable. I definitely agree that there's a need for a clearer scope, but just adding "notable" to the title won't help with that. While I'm busy not leaving a vote here, I might as well mention that I have no problem with Suicide in fiction as a title or a concept; that definitely would fix the scope problem immediately. — Gavia immer (talk) 21:26, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Suicide in fiction probably should be an article concerning suicide as a plot element in fiction. I'm actually OK with the current title. Claritas § 12:23, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am also OK with the current title. It tells exactly what the article is, and the requirement for a reference (and presumably also a Wikilink) establishes notability for Wikipedia purposes. A separate article Suicide in fiction is possible, but it would likely stray into WP:Original Research. --MelanieN (talk) 22:06, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Suicide in Fiction[edit]

While the topic of suicide in fiction is definitely a worthy topic for an encyclopedia and should be created, this list is not. There's no real encyclopedic reason for its existence, and its criteria is far too vague. But I welcome other comments on the subject.--Yaksar (let's chat) 08:13, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The third AFD ended in Keep. Consensus is its fine. Dream Focus 13:06, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I undid rename and removal of referenced information[edit]

This is a list article. "List of" should be included in the name. Don't try to erase it after the third AFD ended in Keep. I undid the rename as well as the removal of most of the information on the list, both done by a single user, without discussion on this talk page first, right after the AFD ended in keep. Dream Focus 13:06, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

While you were in the midst of restoring unreferenced information you also restored a link to a copyright-violating download site. — Gavia immer (talk) 18:24, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Most of what you erased had references to it. What site are you referring to? Dream Focus 20:58, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It's the "moviepro.net" links that are the copyright problem. Please remember that you are responsible for material you include in the article; the onus is on you to show that it is adequately sourced, not the other way around. — Gavia immer (talk) 22:23, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If you know of a copyright problem, then you remove it. No one is expected to go through every single thing and look at it. Dream Focus 00:00, 13 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The person who adds the content - or re-adds it after removal - is "expected to go through every single thing and look at it." If you don't want to do this, you shouldn't be re-adding content. 「ダイノガイ千？！」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 05:08, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Name change?[edit]

It seems to have been brought up multiple times, but the conversation usually fizzles out. Suggestions such as "Notable Suicides in Fiction", "Suicide in Fiction", and a few others. Any ideas or opinions?--Yaksar (let's chat) 22:15, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Suicide in fiction seems to be the name that the last two AfDs have favored. I certainly think that title would be an improvement, since it would dissuade editors from treating this article as one big trivia section. — Gavia immer (talk) 22:25, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. There's no need for a compendium of non-notable suicides.--Yaksar (let's chat) 00:01, 13 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
How do you define notable? Was it important to the plotline or was it a notable character? As long as its a notable work of fiction, then it should be listed. Dream Focus 00:07, 13 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The suicide should be in itself important. The list shouldn't contain every minor suicide in works of fiction.--Yaksar (let's chat) 00:21, 13 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It is a list article, so Wikipedia naming convictions say it should say "list of" before its name. So its fine. Dream Focus 23:59, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is no policy or guideline that states lists must have the word "list" (much less the prefix phrase "List of") in their name - indeed, WP:TV seems to prefer names of the format "Series Name (season X)" for season episode lists, for one prominent example of where this naming convention is not followed. In this case, the article's primary focus should be the topic and not the list, meaning the name "Suicide(s) in fiction" is actually the better title. 「ダイノガイ千？！」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 05:02, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There is no topic here. You can make another article for that if you want. This is a list article and always has been. Don't try to erase one article to replace it with an unrelated one. Dream Focus 12:23, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You seem to be completely ignoring Dinoguy's point, to be honest.--Yaksar (let's chat) 14:13, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia naming conventions for list are found at WP:LISTNAME. It says "list of" should be in front of the list. It links to an example for a fictional list at List of fictional dogs. Dream Focus 14:24, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, I stand corrected. Still, the point here is that this article would be better served as a topic article, covering the general topic of suicide in fiction, rather than the current list article. I can also say with certainty that if someone were to create an article on fictional suicide separate from this list, this list would be merged or redirected to that article or simply end up back at AfD, and rightly so (as it stands, this will end up at AfD again unless it is refocused). No one is suggesting that the list should be entirely abandoned, which seems to be what you're afraid of, Dream Focus. The suggestion is to recast this to focus on the topic; part of the coverage of the topic would then be a brief list of major examples of fictional suicide. 「ダイノガイ千？！」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 03:05, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It would not be merged, since it has already proven itself legitimate to stand on its own. And deleting more than 90% of it, to just list a few examples, defeats the purpose of having a list article. Consensus was to keep it, it meeting all requirements and expectations for a Wikipedia list article. No matter how many times it goes to AFD, it'll end that way. Dream Focus 03:56, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You seem to think that an AfD keep or no consensus implies "the article is perfect as it is, no one should change it." But regardless, we are certainly going to work to improve this article to a higher standard. The AfD determined that this would not be deleted, not that this couldn't be improved, changed, and, should it come to it, merged.--Yaksar (let's chat) 04:03, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
How an AFD is closed is only relevant within the context of that AFD - if the close is keep or no consensus, it has no bearing on further work done on the article. And for the record, the closing administrator made explicit mention of the possibility of changing this article's scope in his closing comment: "Discussion of renaming or better defining the scope can continue on the article's talk page." 「ダイノガイ千？！」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 07:53, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly useful link[edit]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fictional_people_who_committed_suicide

I would imagine that these two lists would be nearly identical. I understand that one is a category, and one is a list, but the information within should still be nearly the same, yes? 128.174.162.65 (talk) 20:04, 7 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Not every fictional person has their own article, so no, not the same. The category only list those with articles. Dream Focus 04:13, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on List of suicides in fiction. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:10, 2 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Numbers section?[edit]

I'd like to add something about 1's sacrifice in 9. How do I add a section for numbers? Maximajorian Viridio (talk) 04:03, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Maximajorian Viridio: I've added a section 0-9 so yuo can add this in there. — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 12:01, 23 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@AnemoneProjectors: Thanks for that! Maximajorian Viridio (talk) 16:36, 23 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Characters letting themselves be killed.[edit]

Should we include characters who passively allowed themselves to die, or stick to characters who actively chose death? Maximajorian Viridio (talk) 00:27, 21 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_suicides_in_fiction&oldid=1217916038"