Talk:Master (form of address)

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Untitled[edit]

Some editors are confusing this form of address with other usages. Please be careful and refer to Master when you mean something other than a form of address. Quill 00:14, 6 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Could someone elaborate on the etymology of this word? Zuiram 16:51, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bruce Wayne is called "Master Wayne" by Alfred to reflect the fact that Alfred has taken care of Bruce since Bruce was a very young age, not to reflect etiquette (who takes etiquette lessons from comic books, anyways?). As Bruce's sole caretaker, this would be like a man named Robert's mom calling him "Little Bobby" - even though he is 6 feet, 200 lbs. and clearly a Robert.

Oh! I didn't sign the Batman comment. I'm sorry! Mike 16:00, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Colonial Use[edit]

In South Africa and I suppose in other former british colonies Master is used by servants as the address of the male family members. The elders are called by their last name for example "Master Smith", while the younger ones will be called by their first name for example "Master Peter". Dr hagedorn (talk) 22:04, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Going past this, in the post-colonial U.S. it was common for slaves to refer to their "owners" as master, regardless of their age. This a some what major use of the address and I feel it should be added to the article somewhere. Potatman (talk) 23:28, 20 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

abbreviation[edit]

Is there a short version of master? As in mister 0 mr? Thanks! --Camaeron (talk) 20:53, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I believe the abbreviation is "M." for master when it is used as a tittle. Potatman (talk) 23:33, 20 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Gender[edit]

Master is currently a unisex title is it not? 66.25.233.222 (talk) 14:38, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Traditionally, the female equivalent of "master" was "mistress", but for professional and academic uses (master mariner, master of arts, etc.) master is now used without regard to gender.156.34.53.211 (talk) 11:56, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

U.S. Usage[edit]

This article makes it sound like people in the U.S. call boys "Master." I've never heard that in my life. Maybe some people do this, but it certainly isn't widespread or even common. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.110.131.11 (talk) 15:09, 25 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think it should be revived 75.65.3.0 (talk) 04:02, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've seen many films where young boys in the US are called master, particularly by black adults. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.145.139.130 (talk) 11:01, 1 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You mean like in films which take place in a setting over 100 years ago... not exactly applicable to 21st century reality, is it? Njsustain (talk) 22:06, 31 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Garbled information in "In English and Welsh Society"[edit]

This paragraph has numerous problems:

After its replacement in common speech by Mister, Master was retained as an address for boys or young men. By the late 19th century, etiquette dictated that men be addressed as Mister, men over under 13 years old be addressed as Master, and from 15 to the age of maturity males not be accorded courtesy titles. However, in more recent times it is not uncommon for secondary school boys (and sometimes older primary school boys, but not, typically, younger) to be addressed as Mister, though some etiquette writers hold that the title Mr should not be used until the boy has left school. The title Master is much less frequently used than formerly. Master is still sometimes used as the written form to address bachelors.^[1]

The first problem here is that "men over under 13 years old" is ungrammatical and it's hard to understand what exactly it's supposed to mean. The second problem is that we have a rule for up to 13, a rule for 15 to maturity, and a rule for maturity on--so what happens from 13 to 15?

Because none of this is cited anywhere, I went back through the history. Prior to 9 Jan 2008, the rule was written:

By the late 19th Century, etiquette dictated that men be addressed as Mister, boys under 13 years old be addressed as Master, and from 13 to the age of maturity males not be accorded courtesy titles.

The first problem came with this anon edit, which changed one of the 13's to a 15, with no explanation, and without changing the other 13, creating the gap. The second problem can with this anon edit, which replaced "boys under 13" with "men over under 13".

Clearly these can both be reverted.

However, the second change also replaced this:

The title Master is much less frequently used than formerly. Master is still sometimes used as the written form of address for boys of below some undefined age, often regarded as about 13 in formal correspondence, particularly invitations to formal affairs.

... with this:

Master is still sometimes used as the written form to address bachelors.

This was done without comment or citation, and as far as I know is incorrect. Similar edits have been corrected in the past by Daniel C. Boyer.

Still, this one seems more arguable than the other. So, I will fix the two obvious mistakes in one edit, and then fix this one in a separate edit, in case someone decides that second edit should be reverted. --192.150.10.200 (talk) 02:11, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Correction: The last point actually _is_ cited. The cited source clearly says that Master is used for "Ages 1-12," and has no reference to marital status whatsoever. So that change definitely needs to be reverted (as I've done).

Meanwhile, The fact that the only source for this entire section shows 12 as a cutoff rather than 13 is a problem. Should this be changed? --192.150.10.200 (talk) 02:17, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Correspondence Manual

More garbled information[edit]

"It was later extended to all respectable men and was the forerunner of Mister, from which it is derived." How is this possible? It has to be one or the other. Kiltpin (talk) 13:31, 30 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Canadian usage[edit]

For me, it was routine to receive mail addressed to Master "Varlaam" when I was a lad in the 1960s. Mail to my niece and nephew I prefix now with Miss and Master, since that is correct usage. Varlaam (talk) 17:32, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Beyond the scope[edit]

Some of the text seems to be beyong the scope of the article. It is supposed to be about "Master" as analogous to "Miss" or "Mister"... not use of the word master as in "expert." I think some major pruning is needed, such as the entire martial arts section, to start with. Njsustain (talk) 22:04, 31 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Correspondence Manual

[1]