Talk:NZASM 19 Tonner 0-4-2T

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Renumbering of the 19 Tonners[edit]

The contents of an email received from John Middleton:

"Original Message

From: John Nicholas Middleton

To: André Kritzinger

Cc: The Paxtons

Sent: 26 August 2013 07:46 PM

Subject: Re: NZASM 19 Tonner 0-4-2T

Hi Andre

Another super job, a few comments to add to the knowledge

Renumbering (not complete) again from the Vorwoerdburg version of the Rolling Stock Register

15 to IMR 612 to CSAR F to M4 (Nov 1908) Scrapped 3/1916 SAR Boiler 4003

16 to IMR 613 sold before CSAR

17 to IMR 614 to CSAR G to M1 (Apr 1906) Scrapped 2/1916 SAR Boiler 4000

18 to IMR 615 to CSAR H

19 to IMR 616 to CSAR I - withdrawn 1906 but converted to M8 (Jul 1909) SAR Boiler 4007

20 to IMR 617

21 to IMR 618

22 to IMR 619

23 to IMR 620

of 617-620, three became CSAR J, K and L and the other one sold but don't know which. Boiler 2366 (which was new on 21 became stationary boiler 1735 so was presumably NOT the one sold)

24 to IMR 621 to CSAR M to M11 (date not known but c1909) SAR Boiler 4010

25 to IMR 622 to CSAR N to M5 (Jul 1909) SAR Boiler 4004

26 to IMR 623 to CSAR O to M6 (Jun 1909) SAR Boiler 4005

27 to IMR 624 to CSAR P to M7 (Jun 1909) SAR Boiler 4006

28 to IMR 625 to CSAR Q to M10 (date not known but c1909) SAR Boiler 4009

29 to IMR 626

30 to IMR 627

31 to IMR 628

32 to IMR 629

of 626-629 two were CSAR R and S and two were sold. Boiler 2411 (which was new on 626 became stationary boiler 1736 so was presumably one of R or S)

33 to IMR 630 to CSAR T to M3 (Oct 1908) scrapped 3/1916 SAR Boiler 4002

34 to IMR 631 sold before CSAR

35 to IMR 632 to CSAR U to M9 (date unknown but c1909) SAR Boiler 4008

36 to IMR 633

37 to IMR 634

38 to IMR 635

of these [last] three, only one lettered CSAR V is known to have existed, possibly other two were sold, Boiler 2512 (new on 37) became stationary boiler 1737.

Two of the batch 612 to 617 ended up as stationary boilers 1595 and 1662

In December 1906 CSAR showed A to K and M to V in stock thus only L (of the CSAR locos) had been withdrawn by that date. CSAR H, J, K, R, S and V were all withdrawn by 1910

At least five (possibly seven) were sold to industry before the formation of CSAR, however sales from CSAR are possible too as none passed to SAR main stock. Known are locos at Coronation Colliery (one), Douglas Colliery (one) and Transvaal Coal Trust, Brakpan (one - which later went to Ogies Colliery). The last mentioned was only scrapped circa 1930 and may have been the last survivor.

I attach a photo of the Douglas locomotive - you can see it was their No. 1 and named DOUGLAS, it also has a Breda worksplate so is one of the batch ZASM 15-20, of these 16 is the only one that definitely did not pass to CSAR so could well be the loco, note there is a question mark over 20 as one of 20-23 was also sold pre-CSAR. This was the original Douglas Colliery at Crown Douglas alongside the Pretoria-Witbank line. The attached photo has previously been published in RHG Bulletin 53, so you could reference that if you want to use it.

I am also sending some extracts from the CSAR Annual Reports which describe the evolution and entry into service of the M class railmotors - these notes are in Eric Conradie's collection which is where I copied them.

Hope this helps

Regards

John"