Talk:Petroc (college)

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Move?[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Page moved to Petroc (college). Vegaswikian (talk) 03:01, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Petroc College → Petroc — Incorrect name currently used. the college's legal name is 'Petroc', confirmed September 2009; see https://www.petroc.ac.uk/who-we-are/w37/college-history for confirmation Petroc Marketing (talk) 00:01, 15 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

To many likely "Petroc" by itself primarily means the 6th century Celtic Christian saint Saint Petroc. And see:
- All pages with titles containing Petroc
- All pages with titles containing Petrock
Anthony Appleyard (talk) 07:05, 15 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate the concerns but 'Petroc College' is the wrong name and accuracy is important. The college has taken the decision to keep its name to one word and trademarked 'Petroc'. Saint Petroc is already listed separately. As long as the Petroc page has a link to the wiki for St Petroc I think a move is appropriate. (Sam Hoyle (talk) 14:54, 15 January 2011 (UTC))[reply]
Oppose per the other uses mentioned. You could move it to Petroc (college) if you're so insistent . 65.93.14.196 (talk) 04:02, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There are other things and people called Petroc or Petrock. The college chose for itself an ambiguous new name. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 06:43, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Move to 'Petroc (college)'. --Kudpung (talk) 18:18, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
With respect to all; the college chose a single word name that was not used by another organisation and avoided the word 'college' because it is a limiting definition. A precedent would be Tesco not being 'Tesco Supermarkets' or 'Tesco (supermarket)'. Tesco is a supermarket, as Petroc is a college but neither noun fully describes their business Sam Hoyle (talk) 17:21, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This unfortunately has nothing to do with what Petroc (or its representatives) would like. Wikipedia decides what its pages will be named in the best interests of its readers' search habits. The Petroc school does not assert primacy here, and cannot obtain it. Petroc (college) is a perfect, Wikipedia standard page name, please see and read WP:DAB carefully to understand why. Kudpung (talk) 17:53, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a private citizen, not a representative of Petroc and I agree that Wikipedia has primacy. I have read the rules and would simply say that as there is no other page with the title 'Petroc' - just people and places that include the word - the college should be given its proper title, just as Tesco is. Sam Hoyle (talk) 18:26, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

With all due respect Sam, you appear still not to have understood. The name Petroc is already taken. It's the DAB page. Kudpung (talk) 19:07, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Kudpung. I understand but I cannot agree. Tesco has its own page, with a hatnote/link to a DAB below the name, because other entries include the name Tesco but not on its own. There are a number of Wikipedia entries that include the word Petroc but only the college uses the name on its own. I'm new to Wikipedia and undertaking this work as part of a project but I'm a longtime user of the site and I've always loved the resource. I've read the editing guidelines thoroughly and all I'm trying to do is ensure that the entry for Petroc is as correct as possible.Sam Hoyle (talk) 22:15, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sam, I appologise if you took offense at my suggestion that you may represent the school, but many school pages here are made either by pupils or school staff to promote their school. Wikipedia is a double edged sword: no one can insist on an article being in the Wikipedia, while no one can insist on one being removed or changed. These things are decided by the Wikipedia community through consensus, a process that usually includes several regular editors who are well versed in policies; consensus can change over time, but a local consensus cannot overturn established practice.

Thus to correct any misunderstanding, the name Petroc does indeed already exist - it's the DAB page. The name TESCO does not enter this debate - TESCO is unique in the world and the acronym is not shared, nor is it a DAB page. All other pages that include the word TESCO are part of, or related to, that corporation.

We have hundreds of policy pages and guidelines here, and they can often be confusing, but please do read WP:DAB. Kudpung (talk) 01:50, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Saint Petroc would probably be moved to Petroc according to naming conventions, but the title is ambiguous so "Saint" is included. The college is officially just "Petroc" so a move to "Petroc (college)" would be appropriate. Peter E. James (talk) 00:55, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

From what I have read, Petroc (college) or Petroc (school) would be the best options. LonelyBeacon (talk) 16:40, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Peter and LonelyBeacon - Thank you for your interventions; (college) would be more appropriate than (school) but neither is strictly correct.

Kudpung - I have to say that I think you could maybe go a little easier on a newbie. I've read every policy and guideline you've been kind enough to direct me to. I'm not confused and I think my interpretation of them is valid. Using Tesco as an example is not a straw man - it's a reasonable comparison. Tesco is not unique and a number of Wikipedia pages that include the word 'Tesco' are entirely unrelated to the UK-based business of that name, eg Tesco Corporation, Tesco Organisation and Tesco Vee yet the corporation gets the Tesco page and a hatnote to the DAB. Petroc is unique, in that it is the only company/organisation/person/thing/place that uses the word on its own as its name, but the assertion being made is that it should not be listed as Petroc. You'll forgive me if that seems inconsistent and a little unfair.Sam Hoyle (talk) 23:33, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

TESCO is unique and everything on the planet is directly or indirectly connected with the original. On the Wikipedia the only exceptions are a couple of insignificant rock bands. 539 Wikpedia pages link back to the TESCO main page. With the exception of a navigation template, not a single Wikipedia page appears to link back to Petroc school. Anyway, the issue is moot, page names are under no obligation to faithfully reproduce the name of the subject, and consensus appears to support Wikipedia policy in naming the page Petroc (college). Kudpung (talk) 10:37, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OPPOSE proposed move, but strongly support the alternative proposal of Petroc (college), which is much better than the current and blatantly incorrect version as college does not form part of the name. The use of the word college in brackets however is entirely appropriate given the extensive use of the word on the institution's own website e.g. this and also this. --Simple Bob^{a.k.a. The Spaminator} (Talk) 00:37, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Clean up[edit]

To do (per WP:SCH/AG):

Remove all promotional and peacock terms, and assure neutral encyclopedic style.
Remove 'branding' section as particularly promotional
Replace existing infobox with correct infobox (Infobox UK school), and populate correctly
Reduce unnecessary details in campus sections
Use standard Wikipedia conversion templates for dimensions (area, distance, etc)
Tweak inline references to display correctly (no naked URL)
Remove staff names (except principal) unless notable in their own right
Check 'What links here?' and update any libnks that were not updated automatically by the page move (particularly any piped links).

--Kudpung (talk) 03:44, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]