Talk:Robert Holland, 1st Baron Holand

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Untitled[edit]

I had the wrong Robert de Holland, sorry.--T. Anthony 03:19, 21 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well now I'm not sure if I had the wrong one or not. Because the one they mention was beheaded at the right time. Maybe I just had the date of his knighthood wrong.--T. Anthony 03:21, 21 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm[edit]

When I created this I thought he was as far back as you could go. Maybe I should have made this be about Mathew de Holland or the de Holland family in general.--T. Anthony 03:36, 21 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Notability[edit]

I'm sorry if the article was too geneological. He was apparently more notable in his own right than I thought. It's just geneology was the first place I saw his name. Anyway I tried to scale that element back.--T. Anthony (talk) 14:44, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Huh. I guess I added the notable stuff while simultaneously saying he was a "small player." My guess is either I didn't know the full significance of Thomas Plantagenet, 2nd Earl of Lancaster or I just found the other thing more interesting. Again sorry for any offense.--T. Anthony (talk) 15:06, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In the ancestor chart for Henry VII (via grandson, Thomas) and several others. Too, he was more beset by thugs and murdered (albeit, one side-effect was losing his head) than executed. jmswtlk (talk) 00:05, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Barack Obama[edit]

Is a Descendant via Early American Gateway Ancestor Martha Eltonhead 76.116.5.27 (talk) 15:07, 5 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Martha Eltonhead is listed in Gary Boyd Roberts "Royal Descents of 600 Immigrants to the American Colonies or the United States" Barack's ancestry to Martha Eltonhead is outlined in many published sources, and is listed in detail here: [[1]] 76.116.5.27 (talk) 15:11, 5 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ancestors. Do you know how many ancestors Obama has circa 1300? Thousands. They don't all need to be listed here. Not even the few hundred that are notable. Piano non troppo (talk) 21:45, 5 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Your argument is the same argument that could be listed for the mentioning of Winston Churchill 76.116.5.27 (talk) 03:05, 6 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's not fruitful to mention the notable descendents of someone who lived in 1300. That's roughly 35 generations ago. In that time, he Robert de Holland, 1st Baron Holand could have 1,000,000s of descendents (I just did the math). So practically, it's not a situation Wikipedia wants to be in: potentially having a huge list of links. See WP:LINKFARM on this. That in itself is completely sufficient to remove Obama from the article. Not to gild the lily, then, geneology linking back to famous people is notoriously inaccurate, and such a claim would need to be sourced.

Finally, I agree that to be consistent, these sentences should be removed entirely, and for the same reasons: "He is also noted in genealogy sites for being the earliest notable ancestor of several disparate world leaders. He is reportedly ancestral to George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, the Harrison family, Louis XVI, Barack Obama, Winston Churchill, and others." Piano non troppo (talk) 04:06, 6 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh perhaps, but it's amusing as my initial interest in him was that he was geneologically connected to so many different Presidents. I am glad he's notable in his own right, but a part of me kind-of misses the geneology.--T. Anthony (talk) 13:03, 19 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fines[edit]

What are all the mentions of fines against the descendents of Robert Holland? Who levied these fines, and for what offenses? What do they have to do with the subject of the article when they happened to some of his offspring, not him? ScarletRibbons (talk) 18:18, 27 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It appears to me that those were put in there as being one of the few documented sources that mentions the child. Since the author of those entries could find neither birth nor death dates for Alan (and didn't have a marriage date for Robert's wedding to Elizabeth), perhaps the fine that was levied against them is the only document that showed who they were (Alan and Elizabeth, that is). It's not an uncommon practice, though without references on the fine documentation, it's hard to say for sure. 1bandsaw (talk) 19:08, 27 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of Boroughbridge[edit]

I have sources that say Holland deserted Lancaster before or immediately after the battle? Our article says he surrendered after the battle, but the sources seem consistent in their use of deserted (including Stubb's Chronicles) - any input or should I revise the section based on the sources I have on hand? Seraphim System ^(talk) 09:18, 27 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Holland Family Tree[edit]

The family tree diagram at the end of the article has an error in it. Thomas Holland III, d. 1400, is not the first Earl of Kent, as stated, but the third Earl (and first Duke of Surrey) 86.13.122.73 (talk) 15:20, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]