Talk:Sanctus Real

Sanctus Real was one of the Music good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
September 23, 2009	Good article nominee	Listed
March 15, 2023	Good article reassessment	Delisted

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on November 18, 2008.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that Sanctus Real was the most-played artist on American Christian radio in 2006?

Current status: Delisted good article

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Fair use rationale for Image:Sanctusreallogo.png[edit]

Image:Sanctusreallogo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 04:12, 29 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

New CD name[edit]

I thought it was going called Trun On The Lights. When was it changed and where's the proof?--User:NFAN3|NFAN3 (talk) 06:28, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Matt Kollar[edit]

Matt Kollar was the Bassist for sanctus real for their first two indy albums. He did exist, and i could attest to it as I own message for the masses. his name is printed on the back. I could also tell you that I know people who know him personally, but thats not wikipedia accurate. Please do not remove him from former band members. --A^xcess (talk) 05:56, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, is it possible you could add a source for it, then? I listed this page as a GA nominee and that unsourced fact may cause a little stumbling block in the forthcoming GA review. Best, JamieS93 15:00, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, there's actually a source that seems to contradict that info. Allmusic notes Steve Goodrum as their first main bass player. I'm sure you're right about him being credited in one of their earlier albums, but I'm still not sure he's notable enough to mention in the article. I've got a ref that mentions him in passing as a former member, so perhaps I'll add that to the article. JamieS93 15:07, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Never mind, it's all sorted out. I thought that this would be an issue, since we didn't have the "missing links" of when the members joined/left the band. I made an estimate, however, and the source about Matt and Steve taking up jobs after Message for the Masses confirms the estimate, which is good enough for me now. :-) Sorry about the bother, JamieS93 15:26, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Personal Ownership of material[edit]

I am from Toledo and I own-

The Sanctus real Demo tape (that they handed out in high school)

Message for the masses (2nd indie album)
Nothing to lose (3rd indie album)

I'm not exactly sure how to site them, as I wrote information into the pages regarding them directly from inserts included with. If anyone has any questions regarding them feel free to message me. --A^xcess (talk) 06:04, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Archived sites[edit]

Something to look at....

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.sanctusreal.com

the sites from 2000 are Message for the masses era... the first one lists info about the demo tape, the ep and the first indie album. --A^xcess (talk) 06:32, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, and something Ive noticed that might be worth looking into. -

The first website archive has a large image map on the front page, unfortunately, the image is gone, But, the map code remains. The map code links to 4 names, Mark, Matt, Joel, and Chris. Naturally it makes sense that the these are the names of band members... however we have no record of there ever being a "Joel"... I wish i had more information on this, but all i can do it speculate if someone else found some info here, we might have an additional ex-band-member to list. --A^xcess (talk) 06:40, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Sanctus Real/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

GA review (see here for criteria)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose): b (MoS):
What's here is good enough for GA, but there are some constructions I don't like:
~~"Sanctus Real is expected to release a fifth studio album in 2010." Expected by whom? How about "SR plans to release..."?~~

~~"...during the 1996 holiday season." US-specific. Try "in late 1996" instead.~~

~~"Their full-length studio album Message for the Masses was released..." This sentence opens the paragraph, so let's replace "Their" with "Sanctus Real's".~~

~~"...the band began plans to record tracks at a major studio." How about just "..the band planned..."?~~

~~"From 1996 to 2001, Sanctus Real had been touring areas of the United States..." Change "had been touring" to "toured".~~

~~"...the band made the decision to sign with Sparrow Records." How about just "decided"?~~

~~This is really minor, but they recorded "Beautiful Day" for the compilation album, not on it.~~

~~"The group's members changed around that time:..." I'd recast the entire sentence.~~

"After previously being on the road with Relient K..." Two things: "After" makes "previously" redundant, and replace "being on the road" with "touring". Alternately: "A previous (touring?) member of Relient K, Gartley..."

~~"...Pete Prevost became the fifth member of Sanctus Real as an additional guitarist for the band." Drop "for the band".~~

~~"Starting in August 2007, Sanctus Real returned to the studio..." Drop "Starting".~~

~~"...it was finished by the end of the year, spanning a few months of time." Last phrase is redundant; we can figure that out because it's mentioned earlier in the sentence when the sessions began.~~

~~Way too many exact dates given, and it makes for a less pleasing read. I'd reduce them all to just the month (and year, if necessary). Exact dates can be given in the album articles, etc.~~

All of the specific dates have been pared down to months, and in one case simplified to an "early 2008" kind of term. JamieS93 00:05, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
~~"The track "I'm Not Alright" became one of their most popular songs..." Lacks a citation. Not stated in the body of the article, either.~~

~~In which chart(s) did these singles reach the number 1 position? And from which compiler? Billboard? Radio & Records? Mediabase?~~

Okay, I'm fair sure that all of those are from R&R; it might take me a bit of time, but I'll verify and specify them within the article. JamieS93 01:29, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done. I purposefully left the first reference to "number 1" (in the lead) unspecified; it's not necessary since the lead is meant to give to an uncluttered summary, and a reader can figure out the specific chart formats in the body if they wish. All of the #1s are from R&R: either the Christian rock chart, or Christian CHR. JamieS93 00:05, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

~~All the Top40-Charts.com citations are really press releases from Sparrow. There's a template you should be using for these: Template:Cite press release~~

Done. I've never used that template, so hopefully it's right. JamieS93 15:39, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
The list of singles probably isn't necessary. You've discussed all the important ones in the body, and the less important ones can be covered in the album articles. If I need to find one, I can consult the template at the bottom of the page.

Hmm, I know what you're saying but can't exactly agree on this point. I usually prefer to include a list of singles in artist articles. Every article seems different, though, i.e., my other article here has one while some other band/musician GAs don't. Since SR doesn't have a discography article, I'm thinking that both "singles" and "compilation appearances" are worthy of inclusion here. I suppose it could be removed, but I think the single lists are useful as long as they aren't too long. Some people might not even know to look at the bottom of the article for a nav template. JamieS93 00:05, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I feel that I need to chime in here. I agree with Jamie. As a reader, I expect to see a list of singles from any artist, or a separate discography/singles article. The singles are usually what make them notable, so not having a list of charting/release singles would make an article incomplete (and fail GA). Sometimes I use Wikipedia to see what this artist has done, including the singles that don't chart as high. Royal broil 12:22, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

By Wikipedia standards, what makes something notable is significant independent coverage – i.e. if some heretofore unknown band mails some radio stations a "single", it doesn't automatically make the band or the single notable. I have no evidence that any of these non-charting Sanctus Real singles received coverage or even garnered airplay. The "Discography" section is long enough at this point that the best solution probably is breaking it off into its own article. —Zeagler (talk) 02:04, 15 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

So fixed, compilations section removed from main article. What makes a band noteworthy is their albums and singles, and not just the #1 hits. Several of those singles on the list reached around the top 10 on R&R's Christian charts, and that's noteworthy to the public. Articles are meant for readers, and what they're interested in is the radio singles, possibly awards, and the like. Although I still don't see a compelling reason to remove the list (with readers in mind), I guess I'm okay with it now that the list is covered at the discography page (feel free to do it yourself). JamieS93 20:03, 15 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have not listened to any songs by Sanctus Real. How does a list of their singles further my understanding of the band? All it says to me is that the band threw a bunch of their songs at the proverbial wall (as many bands do), and if I go back to the prose I can find the ones that stuck (i.e. the #1s). You say there are others that charted – if you have citations, the prose sections would be a great place to mention them. Now, on the other hand, if I want an understanding of Sanctus Real's discography, that would certainly include a table of the songs they sent to radio and where, if anywhere, they charted. And now we have an article for that. —Zeagler (talk) 01:30, 18 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
~~All mentions of "hit" and "success" should be removed. Let the chart positions or sales numbers or whatever speak for themselves.~~
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
The 1997 Demo Tape art is flagged for being of too great resolution. I can fix this if you can't. You should also chop off the spine and flap (for lack of better terms) and just leave the actual cover to be in better compliance with the fair use guidelines.

Apparently somebody added the image to the article because it was orphaned after the individual album page was deleted. IMO, the image is not necessary within this article (it's a weak fair-use argument when the album is hardly discussed), and I'd prefer to just remove it from the article and delete the file per WP:CSD#F5. JamieS93 01:29, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Overall:
Pass/Fail:

—Zeagler (talk) 23:38, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks for the review, Zeagler; this article took some effort to compile all of the information, so I knew there were surely some consistency/prose problems within it. For some reason, I like copyediting other articles, but I cannot properly proofread my own articles without overlooking stuff. ;) I have not as much opportunity to edit Wikipedia lately, so it may take me some time to address the above issues. Best, JamieS93 01:29, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not going to be strict about the seven-day time limit, so don't worry about it. —Zeagler (talk) 13:25, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The singles list is the only remaining issue. And for future reference, please leave the striking to the reviewer. —Zeagler (talk) 02:04, 15 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, sure. Just trying to mark things off visually. JamieS93 20:03, 15 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry I sat on this for a week...passing now. —Zeagler (talk) 00:21, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Name[edit]

Is there an explaination for the groups name? I know Sanctus is Latin for "holy" (also a part of the Catholic Mass); but I can't figure out the combo: Sanctus Real.

External links modified[edit]

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion[edit]

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36A9090.jpg

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Good article reassessment[edit]

Sanctus Real[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • Watch article reassessment page • Most recent review

Result: No engagement with article, and a general agreement here that the article doesn't meet the criteria. Closing. Hog Farm _Talk 17:49, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

An older GA, this one hasn't been maintained as well, with under-developed post-2010 content (for instance, Unstoppable God isn't mentioned in the prose, and "touring" includes nothing post-2013). The later sections also are under-cited. Hog Farm _Talk 02:14, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The unreferenced "Members" section does not bode well. I think a demotion is already fairly justified unless these fixes can be done relatively simply.Summoned by WikiProject Christianity message ~ Pbritti (talk) 17:42, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.