Talk:Sheila Carter

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What happened to the baby that Sheila said was Massimo's? Jleonau 01:56, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Regarding storylines from late 2006 and onward...

I understand that Sheila Carter-related storylines on the 'Young and the Restless' from late 2006 and onward have not been quite well received by fans... It still doesn't change the fact that those storylines were written and did happen onscreen. Wikipedia articles on such works of fiction must reflect exactly what was said and seen onscreen, not viewers' wishes and speculations. Here is exactly what played out onscreen.

In early 2006, the character of Sheila Carter did have plastic surgery to look like somebody else. Later on that year, it was revealed that she had been made to look like Phyllis Newman. Sheila as Phyllis did mention taking pictures of Lauren & Brad together (something that happened a long time in the past only Sheila and few others knew), talked to herself in the mirror and would not stop reminiscing Scott & Scotty, all of which are characteristics of Sheila Carter. Former executive producer and head writer Lynn Marie Latham once referred to that incarnation of Sheila as a "psychotic killer". She called her "Sheila" and never said it wasn't Sheila. Actress Michelle Stafford also referred to that character she portrayed onscreen as "Sheila" and never implied it wasn't Sheila.

In 2010, Sarah Smythe confirmed several times Sheila Carter was indeed her sister, was made to look like Phyllis and was shot dead by Lauren Fenmore Baldwin. And that's the exact reason why Sarah abducted Lauren and tried to kill Phyllis twice as she held them both responsible of her sister's death. Sarah might have been a half-sister of Sheila's using her married name (even if she got a divorce). Therefore, Molly Carter implying she's only had one daughter is not relevant.

The actress Tracey E. Bregman herself confirmed that Sarah & Sheila were indeed sisters and Sarah had to raise Sheila's kids (Daisy Carter & Ryder Callahan) 'cause Sheila was too preoccupied with chasing Lauren. Therefore, Bregman also confirmed Daisy & Ryder were truly Sheila's children. I know Sheila & Tom only met for the first time onscreen in 2005 but it's only a soap opera. Even though they could only have been born in 2006, Daisy & Ryder's date of birth was still changed to that of May 25th 1988. For instance, Kyle Abbott was born in 2001 but his date of birth was changed to that of January 8th 1990...

In 2012, a woman claiming to be Sheila Carter checked Daisy out of a mental institution. She was filmed but her face could not clearly be seen. According to Phyllis, she did sign the name "Sheila Carter" on the release form. Paul had that signature analyzed to see if it matched Sheila's handwriting but results were inconclusive.

Once again, I'm very much aware of the fact that quite some do not like nor want to accept such storylines but it's what was on script and played out onscreen; Sheila Carter did have plastic surgery to look like Phyllis, was shot by Lauren, apparently died, and was years later avenged by her twins, Daisy & Ryder, as well as her sister, Sarah Smythe. In 2012, she might have come back but her face was not seen at all and test results were inconclusive. It's what the article must present.

Tracey E. Bregman & Maria Arena Bell confirmed the character of Sheila Carter was coming back in late 2012 but the new regime put an end to it. Israell (talk) 15:04, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

More on the Sheila Carter Article

Beconboof, Sheila's body disappearing from the morgue was just a spumor that appeared on a number of message boards. Phyllis did, however, tell Lauren (who was being tormented by Sarah, Daisy & Ryder) that there was an autopsy. The article should resume storylines as they've played out onscreen. From what viewers saw, Sheila did have surgery to look like Phyllis (we even saw her at the surgeon's office), Sarah is her sister (she even showed Lauren a picture of herself & Sheila before their surgeries) and Daisy & Ryder are Sheila's twins with Tom Fisher.

I added in the 'Critical Reception' section in order to address all the issues (including speculations, presumptions & questioning) you and several others have with storylines from late 2006 and onward (Sheila never having had surgery to look like Phyllis in the first place, Sarah not being Sheila's sister, Daisy & Ryder possibly not being Sheila's kids with Tom Fisher etc.) No need to mention those elsewhere in the article. Israell (talk) 04:33, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Storylines section

Just a word of warning. In two weeks I will be deleting the majority of the storylines section of the article as it has practically no sources. All material on Wikipedia has to be referencable and there is pages of unreferenced text. While not everything needs to be referenced, it needs much more than is currently done. See Wp:Verify. Canterbury Tail talk 12:51, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Sheila's 2017 Resurrection and storylines from 2006-12

With news of Sheila's return. I think we should wait until B&B explains who the woman was who had surgery to look like Phyllis and the story of her children with Tom Fisher. Also Stafford "'WAS"' credited as Sheila so we could keep her name on there, a similar discussion happened when Roger Howarth reclaimed the role of Todd Manning from Trevor St. John. Or we could put a new infobox for the woman who claimed to be Sheila who had Phyllis' face (my guess that it was Sugar), like when Ian Buchanan came back as Duke Lavery. Jester66 (talk) 06:53, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

Jester66, I wholeheartedly agree w/ you. This is still a brand-new storyline, and we haven't even gotten any explanation yet but that Sheila had done time in prison. https://www.tvinsider.com/230574/kimberlin-brown-returns-bold-and-the-beautiful-sheila-carter-interview/

I've always maintained she survived getting shot but was locked up somewhere and could not get back to her family. Maybe, once released, she checked Daisy out of Fairview, had a second plastic surgery and is now in LA! Either way, we should just wait for further explanations, but I guess most fans so want to be rid of the "Pheila ghost" they just can't wait, and I absolutely HATE edit wars. Israell (talk) 14:21, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

Unfortunately, TV Insider says that Sheila was in prison, and has done her time. But that does not explain the details of what happened on The Young and the Restless, and I doubt it will unless Brown appears on that serial, and deals with Lauren, or if Tracey Bregman does a guest spot. Removing Michelle Stafford is invalid; the same thing happened at Todd Manning. Stafford portrayed Sheila, per story and reliable source. Whether she was Sheila can be stated, within the article, should it be addressed by either serial. Until then, it's speculative. livelikemusic talk! 23:02, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

livelikemusic, I totally agree with you, but some fans may end up edit-warring! I did add this piece of info to the 2017 section: According to an update on the official B&B website regarding Sheila's return, "Sheila has given birth to several children, including "Mary/Erica" by James and "Diana" by Massimo Marone, whom she revealed to him while he held her at gunpoint in South America."

I did so because some fans insist Daisy Carter and Ryder Callahan are not Sheila's children (but some imposters), and they're now even more convinced of it (though, per story and reliable source, they are her children). This new update on the official CBS website states that Sheila Carter had several children including Mary/Erica and Diana. "Several", per definition, means more than two or three. The term "including" also suggests Mary Carter Warwick/Erica Lovejoy and Diana Carter are not Sheila's only children. This is why I've added it. Should I add it back for clarification?

As you said, the details of what happened on The Young and the Restless have not yet been explained, but some fans hate the previous storylines so much they've already deemed Sheila as Phyllis (played by Michelle Stafford), Sarah, Daisy & Ryder were all imposters. Israell (talk) 04:04, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

This is why the page should likely be protected, to keep from these bullshit edits from happening. Again, we can only deal with fact, and the fact is, Michelle Stafford still portrayed the role of Sheila from 2006–07, so that needs to remain. And, again, as exhibited at the Todd Manning page, even if it is debunked, she still was written as portraying said-character, and if anything, a mention in the article would more than suffice, but it does not negate the fact that Stafford did portray Phyllis. Again, I doubt we'll get answers unless she crosses over, as Sheila's "death" was never mentioned on The Bold and the Beautiful, and we do not know if it ever will. And honestly, you copy-pasted a poorly written summary, which honestly, has nothing to do with her 2017 return, at all. Again, we are dealing with fans, who clearly want their fan-cruft to be accepted on Wikipedia; if they want this, it should belong on Wikia websites, where these edits are acceptable. livelikemusic talk! 00:21, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Should we do an infobox for Sugar, if she was the one who had surgery to have Phyllis' face, or to just have one? Jester66 (talk) 01:30, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Right now, probably not, especially since we only have the basic details of what's been shown on Friday's episode, and the TV Insider interview. livelikemusic talk! 02:10, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

livelikemusic, in today's episode, Sheila said that there were "crazy stories" about her whereabouts and identity, and that she did her time in prison. It still doesn't fully explain the previous The Young and the Restless storylines (from 2006 to 2012). I suggest we leave the article as is for now. Some editors have messed w/ it again, and I had to reinsert Michelle Stafford's picture (as Sheila). Israell (talk) 18:06, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Yes, Sheila did state there were "crazy stories", but did not state when those stories supposedly took place; it was only implied. So, until said-stories are explained, the article remains as is. And, even then, Stafford stays in the infobox regardless, because she did portray Sheila. livelikemusic talk! 20:49, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

I propose we put a protection on this page. Due to the constant edit warring and vandalism. Jester66 (talk) 23:56, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

livelikemusic, regarding this paragraph (I've just revised): "As for Sugar, after she managed to leave the psychiatric hospital, she went to see Scott who believed it was Sheila. Thinking that Lauren had died in the explosion, Scott was furious with her. Sugar then proceeded to stab him in order to exact her revenge on Sheila. Troy, a police officer, arrived to the scene and arrested her. Upon seeing her, Lauren immediately knew it was not Sheila whose ankle was sprained. Sugar walked well and had a raspy voice. She confirmed she was Sugar and hated Sheila for ruining her life. Troy then explained Sugar's fingerprints did not match Sheila Carter's. Sheila was then seen in an unidentified plastic surgeon's office. She told him: "Thank God! Your people were able to come and get me." She then used crutches to walk, had a seat, and asked him for a new face.", yes, it did happen, but I was mistaken on something. I added the info back and added two sources (transcripts of episodes).

http://tvmegasite.net/transcripts/yr/older/2006/yr-trans-01-09-06.shtml http://tvmegasite.net/transcripts/yr/older/2006/yr-trans-01-10-06.shtml

Note that in the second episode, "Sheila"'s name is changed to "Sugar" 'cause it's Sugar who stabbed Scotty. It also confirms Sugar had a raspy voice. Lauren explained Sheila had broken her ankle and could not walk well. The police agent confirmed Sugar's fingerprints did not match Sheila's. The real Sheila was then seen at the plastic surgeon's office. Israell (talk) 22:55, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

TVMegasite is not a reliable source, as far as I am aware. It appears to be a fansite, owned and edited by fans of daytime soap operas, and primetime series. livelikemusic talk! 22:45, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

Brad Bell confirmed to TV Insider that he does not intend on mentioning the Phyllis-Sheila storyline on The Bold and the Beautiful. He stated, and I quote: "we are focusing solely on what previously happened with Sheila on B&B. That’s my universe and the only way I can embrace the character right now. What happened in Genoa City stays in Genoa City." It is also confirmed that Brown is on a one-year deal with the serial. livelikemusic talk! 19:37, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

References

Livelikemusic, regarding my latest edit, I simply specified there was an autopsy. I did not imply the Phyllis look-alike wasn't Sheila! I just wrote: "Though an autopsy alleged to her death..." It is a fact that there was an autopsy—and that Sheila turned out to be alive. The autopsy was mentioned on the Y&R, and I saw and heard it when it aired (and I then read the transcript). I'm definitely not into fan-cruft material; I've actually removed quite some of it. I just think mentioning the autopsy is pertinent information for the readers. Or maybe we should add: "Though an autopsy confirmed her death..." Israell (talk) 05:04, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

You are misunderstanding my edit summary, and the causes behind it. The autopsy itself is not what I categorized as fan-cruft, because I too, as a viewer, an aware of its existence. It's the line of her "looking like her old self". That is fan-cruft, especially since — again — the details of Sheila's last stint in Genoa City have yet to be touched upon, and given Brad Bell's own admission, they likely won't be. Also, no need to continually post on my talk page about this talk page; I have the main article on my talk page, which automatically places this page on it, as well. livelikemusic talk! 22:27, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Should we add Quinn Fuller to the lead? Some editors keep adding her... It'd look this way: "She has also had conflicts with Stephanie Forrester, Maggie Forrester, Amber Moore, Taylor Hayes, Brooke Logan and Phyllis Summers and Quinn Fuller". Israell (talk) 00:57, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Latest Edits

@Livelikemusic: Several years ago, we had that discussion above regarding Sheila Carter-related storylines that occurred on The Young and the Restless. We understood that it is up to that serial to give detailed explanations. You wrote: "Yes, Sheila did state there were "crazy stories", but did not state when those stories supposedly took place; it was only implied. So, until said-stories are explained, the article remains as is. And, even then, Stafford stays in the infobox regardless, because she did portray Sheila."

AdArmand made the following edits today without any prior discussion: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7].

Sheila never said the words "plastic surgery" to Katie. Also, the article is not the place for assumptions and questions (WP:OR). Sheila is back on The Bold and the Beautiful, and so far has only revealed to be Finn's mother. I'm bringing this to your and AdArmand's attention. Israell (talk) 19:09, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

@Jester66: See these edits by AdArmand: [8] and [9]. He removed that casting photo twice when it was explained by Livelikemusic it must stay. DaniloDaysOfOurLives subsequently undid AdArmand's latest edit. Israell (talk) 17:43, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Is it bad that I did so? DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 19:35, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

@DaniloDaysOfOurLives: No. Not at all! I'm glad you did. I was just emphasizing the fact two editors (you and I) had to revert AdArmand's edits.

Oh phew ! Thank you :)

Also just to say – for the portrayer section, we condense years (e.g. it would be 1990–2006, 2017–present). Otherwise it would be very cluttering (1990–98, 2002–03, 2005–06, 2017–18, 2021–). This has been agreed on across the soaps 😊 DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 23:55, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

There is no need to have Michelle Stafford's picture on Sheila's page. It was confirmed that Sheila never had plastic surgery when she told Katie the rumors about her having a changed identity were false. On the Phyllis Summers and Ashley Abbott pages, there are no pictures of the other actresses who played those roles so why does Stafford merit having an image on Sheila's page when she wasn't even playing the character?

@BD2412:, please see these edits by AdArmand: [10], [11] and [12].

This subject was discussed, and we came to the consensus Michelle Stafford's photo would remain in the casting section. Livelikemusic clearly explained: 1. "Yes, Sheila did state there were "crazy stories", but did not state when those stories supposedly took place; it was only implied. So, until said-stories are explained, the article remains as is. And, even then, Stafford stays in the infobox regardless, because she did portray Sheila." 2. "Brad Bell confirmed to TV Insider that he does not intend on mentioning the Phyllis-Sheila storyline on The Bold and the Beautiful. He stated, and I quote: "we are focusing solely on what previously happened with Sheila on B&B. That’s my universe and the only way I can embrace the character right now. What happened in Genoa City stays in Genoa City." 3. "Unfortunately, TV Insider says that Sheila was in prison, and has done her time. But that does not explain the details of what happened on The Young and the Restless, and I doubt it will unless Brown appears on that serial, and deals with Lauren, or if Tracey Bregman does a guest spot. Removing Michelle Stafford is invalid; the same thing happened at Todd Manning. Stafford portrayed Sheila, per story and reliable source. Whether she was Sheila can be stated, within the article, should it be addressed by either serial. Until then, it's speculative."

Exactly. Sheila did tell Katie there were "crazy stories" pertaining to her "whereabouts and identity," but did not specify what were those "crazy stories" and when they took place. Jester66 also agrees such elements of the article should only be modified when we obtain clear confirmation. Until then, it's speculative. I've explained this to AdArmand, but they've decided to resort to edit-warring by removing that photo three times (even after another editor restored it). Israell (talk) 15:35, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Your argument isn't credible. Just explain to me why there are no pictures of the other actresses to portray Phyllis on the character's page? Stafford only portrayed 'Pheila' for two months and some of those actresses were on for years.

Once again, consensus was reached. Besides, per story and reliable source, Sheila Carter did have plastic surgery to look like a completely different character; it is therefore of interest to the readers to have a picture of the actress who portrayed Sheila at that time. The rest, as agreed upon earlier, is speculative. Israell (talk) 16:19, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

You haven't answered my question. Why does Stafford get a picture on Sheila's wikipedia wheras the other actresses to play Phyllis don't get a picture on that character's page?

I have answered your question. Sheila Carter did have plastic surgery to look like a completely different character; it is therefore of interest to the readers to have a picture of the actress who portrayed Sheila at that time. The other actresses who played Phyllis were not playing a completely different character. Consensus was reached on that matter. Israell (talk) 16:45, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

It was NEVER confirmed that the Phyllis lookalike was Sheila. It was claimed, not confirmed. Lauren shot that character dead, so it wouldn't be possible for her to be alive with her original face. It makes absolutely no sense. That's why it needs to be edited that the Phyllis lookalike was claimed and speculated to be Sheila, not that she actually was her.

For argument's sake, Sheila (who walked on crutches because of her broken ankle) did go to a plastic surgeon's, handed them a photo and told them: "Thank God, your people were able to come and get me. You're a lifesaver. You always have been. I have to ask for your help again. It's gonna be the biggest test of your talents yet. I want you to make me look like this." Months later, Sheila came back looking like Phyllis and told Michael: "Be sure to tell the little woman that I'm available to take pictures of the two of you in bed, like I did with her and Brad." Only Sheila, the photo technician, Lauren, Brad and Molly knew about those pictures. Sheila then kidnapped Fen and renamed him "Scotty." (Sheila had previously abducted Scotty.) Note: Phillip Chancellor III (Y&R) and Taylor Hayes (B&B) were both declared dead, had a funeral, and still came back from the dead (and in Taylor's case, it happened twice).

Per story and reliable source, Sheila Carter did have plastic surgery to look like Phyllis Summers (and Michelle Stafford was credited as "Sheila Carter.") Besides, family members Sarah, Daisy and Ryder, on the Y&R, all confirmed Sheila is the one that had that surgery to look like Phyllis. As other editors agree, it is up to the Y&R (or the B&B) to give precise details as to what happened exactly. Maybe the woman who had the surgery was Sheila, fell into a coma, her autopsy was faked, she went to prison (as explained on the B&B), and she later had reverse plastic surgery. (Livelikemusic also agrees Sheila could have had reverse plastic surgery.) Maybe it wasn't her, but per story and reliable source, Sheila Carter did have the surgery, and the article stays as is until further explanations are given. Israell (talk) 20:09, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Israell we got it you are a Michelle S. fanatic and you don’t want to admit it and cry and cry over to reverse any changes made to this page about your dear actresss but I confirm what the previous person said. 1/ it was never confirmed than Pheila was really Sheila. It was ASSUMED. 2/ the identity of of Sarah Smythe as Sheila’s sister was NEVER CONFIRMED. It was even said during the show that characters like Paul and Lauren were doubting that she was her sister because they never heard of her… so you cannot justify a storyline with an actor/ actress’s interview, they obviously didn’t know in which direction they were going. It’s more than obvious that the sentence that Sheila used during a come back in 2017 “crazy stories about my identities” was to retcon these storylines… You cannot accept that but at the same time, you’re able to accept than a character who died on screen like Pheila come back from the death and have a reverse back chirurgie to look like before (which once again never been explained). Stop being un neutral it’s ridiculously stupid.