Talk:The Mole (American TV series) season 2

Episode Boxes Editing

The boxes should be formated like the other four seasons. It's really hard to understand and follow compared to the others. DarkFireYoshi (talk) 00:20, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

As per WP: Season naming, despite the special name, the article should follow the other seasons' naming as well. The Mole (U.S. Season 1), The Mole (U.S. Season 3), The Mole (U.S. Season 4) are already set, so this one should be moved to The Mole (U.S. Season 2). Likewise, The Mole (2008 US TV Series) should be moved to The Mole (U.S. Season 5). S. Ellis (talk) 07:11, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Hidden Clues

Under the listing of the clues hidden in episodes, the numbers mentioned at the end of the telegram sent in Episode 4 cannot be correct. 843-885347 cannot spell "The Mole Is", as the letters T, U, and V are found on the 8 key on a standard phone keypad. My sister and I tried this on our cell phones, and the number as given spells out something along the lines of "The Vule Is." Therefore, I submit that the telephone number should be 843-665347, and that someone simply misread it due to its being unclear onscreen. Is there anyone who can confirm this number as correct? KyrieEleison (talk) 21:51, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I believe you are correct. It is hard to tell (especially since the shows aren't on DVD), but if the 8s don't make it work, and the 6s do, then it would seem like that is what the phone number should be. S. Ellis (talk) 05:33, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus. JPG-GR (talk) 02:08, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

I can't find any discussion about a previous move. As I mentioned at Talk:The Mole (US TV series), the titles of The Mole (U.S. Season 2), The Mole (U.S. Season 3), and The Mole (U.S. Season 4) all suggest that a disambiguation within them is necessary from the title "The Mole." Seasons 2, 3, and 4 all had distinct titles of their own, and the celebrity seasons especially were almost never referred to as seasons two and three of the show. Compare to Survivor: Borneo, Survivor: Australia, and so on, whereas a title like Survivor 18 (good God) is only used when the location isn't yet known.

If I'm dead wrong about this, it'll be real quick and painless (for you guys, anyway), but I think it's a discussion that can be had. Tromboneguy0186 (talk) 10:26, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Oppose. It's a good idea, but it doesn't fit with the WP season naming conventions, where a consistent naming convention should be used for all seasons. The reason why Survivor is that way is because they all had a distinct name (Borneo, Outback, etc) while The Mole does not. S. Ellis (talk) 17:21, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

The different Survivor names are no different whatsoever from the different names for the Mole seasons. Surely they should be at Survivor (U.S. Season 1) and so on to conform if these articles must be? Tromboneguy0186 (talk) 01:57, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

The difference is that each have a special name, and that is not the case here. S. Ellis (talk) 05:17, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, that's patently ridiculous. Positively no one is going to look for The Mole (U.S. Season 3) for Celebrity Mole Hawaii, even someone who knows how wikipedia's parentheticals work. It was never even called "The Mole" (neither celebrity show was), not on the program or in advertisments (Mole 2 was). You're giving the show a title it essentially didn't have. Tromboneguy0186 (talk) 10:36, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

First of all, we're not naming the show anything. The wikipedia article does not name anything. Wikipedia articles commonly have titles that are colloquial names for things that are NOT the real name intended by the creator. This is not a reason for denouncing a name. Common examples include landmarks and art (Statue of Liberty, Whistler's Mother). There seems to be a lot of disagreement on when this policy is in use, however, as things like The pill or Birth Control Pill both redirect to Combined oral contraceptive pill, which is not a particularly widely used term, at least in the public eye. One camp feels that the colloquial name should simply redirect to the official name. Redirects are usually less desirable due to extra loading time and extra database requesting for the server, so I think the "most common name" is a policy to avoid that. But there are additional conventions on wikpedia and in the TV project design to encourage naming consistency; especially where there is no liklihood that people will hit the precise spelling or naming convention used (as perhaps in this case).

I'm beginning to become convinced a bit the other way that perhaps the Celebrity Mole articles should be named either by their screen titles, or following Amazing Race, simply as The Mole 3, and The Mole 4, while 2nd season should be The Mole 2, leaving this season as either The Mole 3 (if it is agreed that the celebrity shows are separate), The Mole 5 (if it is a agreed they are part of the mole series), or The Mole (2008 season). If the show is picked up for another season after this one, the convention can be revisited then for long-term use. The reason as given is that if anyone is going to search for the Celebrity series under an actual name, it's going to be one of those actual names. TheHYPO (talk) 21:35, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Similarly, The Amazing Race 8 is not titled The Amazing Race: Family Edition; though TAR has had far less frequent named seasons TheHYPO (talk) 21:06, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose - the articles should reflect the official name as disclosed by both the producers of the show and the network that broadcast it. In addition to Survivor (the first season was simply called Survivor - it was only called Survivor: Borneo only when it was decided to release the seasonal DVD set. Survivor:Palau Tiga was used only when Survivor: The Australian Outback was broadcast), The Real World has individual season titles, as does (and did) Real World/Road Rules Challenge. B.Wind (talk) 00:11, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Oppose - As above. The seasons don't all have distinct names, and we should do our best to make the naming pattern uniform between all seasons. So if we move 2, 3, and 4 somewhere else, what do we call seasons 1 and 5? Do they stay at their present locations? How silly would it look to go from "(US Season 1)" to "Mole 2" to "Celebrity" x2 and then back to "(US Season 5)"? --Maelwys (talk) 18:09, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

To offer a devil's advocate argument, this does occur on wikipedia; For example, that idiot (poetic license) Seal has released three self-titled albums. So his discography goes Seal (1991 album), Seal (1994 album), Human Being (album), Seal (2003 album)... I believe there are other artists with a similar break between same-named albums, so there is some precident for disjointed title formats. But in those case, the standard expectation and practice is not to have [Artist album #1] [Artist album #2] as a typical title format.

In addition, when comparing with Survivor, I believe that it is more probable that not that someone looking up a survivor article will look up [Survivor: Antarctica], not [Survivor 46]. Wikipedia's policy, as far as I remember reading it, is that titles should reflect the most likely to be searched title. The question here is whether people are more likely to search Celebrity Mole: Yukitan or The Mole 4... TheHYPO (talk) 21:11, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Here is a quote from the naming conventions for seasons:

For an article that describes one season of a television show (possibly with an episode guide for that season), the article should be named first by the name of the show, and then by the season number, such as "24 (season 1)"; alternatively, if each season is given by a distinctive name, that should be used instead, such as "Survivor: Borneo". A consistent naming scheme should be used for all season articles of a TV show: if one season is named something special, this should be noted through redirects and in the article's WP:LEAD, but the article should be named in the same fashion as the other season pages. For example "The Amazing Race 8" was known as "The Amazing Race: Family Edition", but maintains the naming format as other seasons and the second link being a redirection to the consistently named season page.

The thing that catches my eyes are 1) "if each season is given by a distinctive name that should be used instead" and 2) "a consistent naming scheme should be used for all season articles," so at this point I would say the articles should not be moved, at least not now. S. Ellis (talk) 22:25, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

The issue here is that there are more "named" seasons than unnamed ones, and so The Mole doesn't fall into either clearcut category that article defines. In addition, their own examples don't follow a perfect convention ([24 (Season 1)] vs. [The Amazing Race 8] are two different styles). The other issue is wikipedia's "there are no rules" policy whereas if something in a policy doesn't make proper sense, it should be ignored. Policy is just written by editors based on what they see as concensus. I'm unsure which way this should go. TheHYPO (talk) 22:33, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Since people are looking for other similar situations, here are some that I would consider similar. First as noted above, nobody would search for TAR8, they'd always look for Family Edition, but the article is at TAR8 for consistancy reasons. Same thing with TAR11 (All Star). Perhaps an even closer parallel would be for The Apprentice (U.S. Season 7) (commonly known to everybody, including the episode title cards as The Celebrity Apprentice, but named according to consistant conventions), and The Apprentice (U.S. Season 8) (The Celebrity Apprentice 2). Even Survivor stuck to their naming scheme in spite of other 'popular' names (Survivor: Micronesia is better known to most peopl as "Fans vs Favourites"). --Maelwys (talk) 23:18, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Both of your examples are one-time changes, however; 7 TARs and THEN family edition. 3 or 4 apprentices and THEN celebrity apprentice. 200 survivors and THEN fans v. favourites. One might argue that Until this new season, all 4 of The Mole seasons had unique names (Mole, Mole 2, CelebriMole:H, CelebriMole:Y). So as I said, the issue is that there are MORE named seasons than unnamed ones. TheHYPO (talk) 01:40, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

So the answer is to give the shows names they never had. Fine work. Fine, fine work. Tromboneguy0186 (talk) 18:49, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Additional information

Listing of other pertinent info, for possible future integration into the article. Doctorindy (talk) 20:31, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Order which the names were called during each execution

• Episode 1: Ali, Katie, Al, Patrick, Bob
  • Exemptions: Elavia
  • Not called: Dorothy, Bill, Heather, Bribs, Darwin, Myra, Patrick, Lisa
• Episode 2: Myra, Heather, Katie, Al, Patrick, Ali
  • Exemptions: Dorothy, Lisa
  • Not called: Bill, Bribs, Darwin, Elavia, Rob
• Episode 3: Heather, Patrick, Darwin, Dorothy, Lisa
  • Exemptions: Al, Katie
  • Not called: Bill, Bribs, Elavia, Myra, Rob
• Episode 4: Elavia, Bribs, Heather, Myra, Darwin, Katie, Patrick
  • Exemptions: Bill, Rob, Dorothy
  • Not called: Al
• Episode 5: Dorothy, Katie, Al, Bribs, Heather, Rob
  • Exemptions: none
  • Not called: Bill, Darwin, Elavia, Myra
• Episode 6: Myra
  • Exemptions: Elavia
  • Not called: Dorothy, Bill, Heather, Al, Bribs, Darwin, Katie
• Episode 7: none
  • Bribed: Elavia
  • Exemptions: Bill
  • Not called: Dorothy, Heather, Al, Bribs, Darwin, Katie
• Episode 8: Bill, Dorothy, Darwin, Bribs, Al, Katie
  • Exemptions: none
  • Not called: Heather
• Episode 9: Bill, Dorothy, Heather, Al, Bribs, Darwin
  • Exemptions: none
  • Not called: none
• Episode 10: Dorothy, Bill, Bribs
  • Exemptions: Al
  • Not called: Heather
• Episode 11: Heather, Al
  • Exemptions: none
  • Not called: Dorothy, Bill

Elimination table revision

Color key

  The contestant was executed.

  The contestant earned or claimed an exemption.

  The contestant was tied for the lowest score on the quiz, but completed it in a faster time.

	Episode 1	Episode 2	Episode 3	Episode 4	Episode 5	Episode 6	Episode 7	Episode 8	Episode 9	Episode 10	Episode 11	Episode 13 Final
Quiz	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12
Starting prize pot	$0	$60,000	$56,000	$91,000	$166,000	$206,000	$236,000	$266,000	$346,000	$376,000	$486,000	$536,000
Money earned	$60,000	-$4,000	$35,000	$80,000	$40,000	$40,000	$30,000	$80,000	$30,000	$110,000	$50,000	$100,000
Penalties	(none)			-$5,000	(none)	-$10,000	(none)
Total prize pot	$60,000	$56,000	$91,000	$166,000	$206,000	$236,000	$266,000	$346,000	$376,000	$486,000	$536,000	$636,000
Dorothy	Safe	Exempt	Safe	Exempt	Safe	Safe	Saved	Safe	Safe	Safe	Safe	Winner (Episode 13)
Bill	Safe	Safe	Safe	Exempt	Safe	Safe	Exempt	Safe	Safe	Safe	Safe	The Mole (Episode 13)
Heather	Safe	Safe	Safe	Safe	Safe	Safe	Safe	Saved	Safe	Safe	Safe	Runner-up (Episode 13)
Al	Safe	Safe	Exempt	Safe	Safe	Safe	Safe	Safe	Safe	Exempt	Executed	Executed (Episode 11)
Bribs	Safe	Safe	Safe	Safe	Safe	Saved	Safe	Safe	Safe	Executed	Executed (Episode 10)
Darwin	Saved	Safe	Safe	Safe	Safe	Safe	Safe	Safe	Executed	Executed (Episode 9)
Katie	Safe	Safe	Exempt	Safe	Safe	Safe	Safe	Executed	Executed (Episode 8)
Elavia	Exempt	Safe	Safe	Safe	Safe	Exempt	Accepted bribe	Withdrew (Episode 7)
Myra	Safe	Safe	Safe	Safe	Safe	Executed	Executed (Episode 6)
Rob	Safe	Safe	Safe	Exempt	Executed	Executed (Episode 5)
Patrick	Safe	Safe	Safe	Executed	Executed (Episode 4)
Lisa	Safe	Exempt	Executed	Executed (Episode 3)
Ali	Safe	Executed	Executed (Episode 2)
Bob	Executed	Executed (Episode 1)
Exemptions	Elavia	Dorothy, Lisa	Al, Katie	Dorothy, Bill, Rob	Heather (declined)	Elavia	Bill	(none)	Not earned	Al	Not earned	(none)
Neutralized	(none)		Dorothy	(none)					Dorothy	(none)
Withdrew	(none)						Elavia	(none)
Executed	Bob Slowest time to complete	Ali Lowest score	Lisa Lowest score	Patrick Lowest score	Rob Lowest score	Myra Slowest time to complete	Execution canceled	Katie Slowest time to complete	Darwin Lowest score	Bribs Lowest score	Al Lowest score	Bill The Mole
												Heather Lowest score
												Dorothy Highest score

24.191.232.15 (talk) 00:54, 6 January 2023 (UTC)