Talk:Todesfuge

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Title[edit]

The correct title is not "Die Todesfuge" but only "Todesfuge". The article should be movede. Amessner (talk) 14:12, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Other translations[edit]

I've added an external link with some more translations: the Romanian one had been written by a friend of Celan (Petre Solomon) who even might have given him the inspiration for schwarze Milch. Also, given that so many Roma and Sinti had been sharing the cruel fate of the Jewish people in Auschwitz and elsewhere, here's also a translation into Burgenland Román (whose speakers had been victims of the Nazi prosecution with a great part of this - now small - ethnic group of Austria being "exterminated"). Wayasu (talk) 10:23, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Interpretation" section?[edit]

Wikipedia now includes DIY literary criticism? Not very "encyclopedic." --Andersonblog (talk) 20:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The interpretation is horrible anyway... - "black milk" is a chiffre not a metaphor -- can't be unraveld that easy way. - the "grave in the clouds" is referring to the burning of the dead bodies of the men who were killed in concentration camp. The "grave in the clouds" means going to heaven. He's not talking about gas chambers, as cann be seen in the end of the poem "He shoots you with shot made of lead/Shoots you level and true" -- Phil, 19:35, 28 November 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.32.229.122 (talk)

Tidbit for the interpretation: "Metal-Band Eisregen contains "Der Tod ist ein Meister aus Thüringen" --> Thüringen = Thuringia is a federal state, situated in the region of former eastern german communist republic. People are poor there today, unemployment rate is high. That's why neo-nazis are strong there even nowadays. Conclusion: Even today, nazi-master of death is around at Thuringia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by R0xXx0r (talk • contribs) 20:05, 12 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Mistakes in the version(s) on "poets.org", so beware when using as a source/ point of reference[edit]

Both versions on https://poets.org/poem/death-fugue are missing at least one line each - the English version is missing the translated version of "wir schaufeln ein Grab in den Lüften da liegt man nicht eng" (line 4 of the original German poem) and the German version below is missing "er befiehlt uns spielt auf nun zum Tanz" (line 9 of the original German poem), which oddly enough is included in the English version ("he commands us play up for the dance").

Not only does this leave out important meaning but it will also throw you off when counting the lines or when trying to cross-reference the English version with its translation. Here's a full German version for reference: https://www.celan-projekt.de/todesfuge-deutsch.html

--Geronator (talk) 01:21, 24 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oh and there are other mistakes aswell - "Black milk of morning we drink you evenings" (line 1) is not only bad English, it is also not consistent (later lines say "Black milk of dawn" for the same German phrasing) AND it shouldn't be "we drink you" but rather "we drink it", since the original uses "sie" as in third person singular, not "Sie" (the formal way to address someone in the second person). This is true for the whole poem. There are probably others aswell, but I think I made my point. --Geronator (talk) 01:37, 24 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You're right. I will replace the translations from poets.org with the one at celan-projekt.de, https://www.celan-projekt.de/todesfuge-englisch.html. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 04:46, 24 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The word "problematic"[edit]

In the section on origins and publication, it says that this poem's relationship to Weissglas's "ER" is "more problematic" than its relationship to Rose Ausländer's work.

"Problematic" can mean it takes more work to discern and the result is not straightforward, but it can also mean that there is something inappropriate or wrong with the situation. So I looked for mentions of both just in case, but ended up unsure.

I might suggest either choosing a different word (perhaps "complex" instead of "problematic"?) or expanding on which aspects of the relationship are problematic, and in what ways. TooManyFingers (talk) 20:16, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at how this is treated at de:Todesfuge and de:Immanuel Weissglas, I think that "more complex" is probably better. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:05, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Musical fugue[edit]

One of the essential features of every musical fugue is that relatively short melodies or melodic fragments are heard simultaneously, not all beginning at the same moment but overlapping so that their notes become combined in different ways - and though the ways these pieces of melody end up combining with each other can be surprising, they are planned and deliberate. I thought "A poem can't really recreate that simultaneous/overlapping effect", but this poem shows I was wrong. Though the elements of Todesfuge are of course not literally read or spoken simultaneously, their intensity and the ways they are rearranged and refocused can cause a similar effect in one's mind, while reading or hearing, or afterwards. TooManyFingers (talk) 16:15, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]