Talk:Vietnamese American

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Cantonese or Mandarin[edit]

In my experience, most Vietnamese-American who consider themselves overseas Chinese speak Cantonese in addition to Vietnamese, not Mandarin. Is there any evidence to support that most of them speak Mandarin? 128.195.100.178 02:38, 16 Sep 2003 (UTC)

I don't think so. My maternal granfather, who speaks Cantonese, is full Chinese came to Vietnam to escape the hardships there. More Chinese-Vietnamese speak Cantonese. Probably because more Southern Chinese speak Cantonese and emigrated to Viet Nam by boat. Madarin is consider to be more a northern language. Ironically, these Chinese immigrants are commonly called by the offensive term "boat people."
I don't know if it's appropriate to answer a two-year-old question, but those Chinese Vietnamese Americans who speak the Teochew Chinese deialect as their mother tongue may also speak Cantonese as the lingua franca. They may speak heavily-accented Mandarin when interacting with, say, Taiwanese or mainland Chinese immigrants.

Yes, this question was proposed more than five years ago, but my father is a Cantonese born and raised in Vietnamese. He claims that most Hoa (that's the term for Chinese born and raised in Vietnam) are either Cantonese or Chaozhou. There are very few of any other groups, and that includes Shanghainese and Mandarin. He reasons that, "I'm not sure, but I do think it is due to the fact that Canton and Chaozhou provinces are very near Vietnam. All the others are too far." (Take a look at the map if you don't believe me.) Also, I grew up in the "new Chinatown of Los Angeles" (even rivaling the one in San Francisco and actual business district downtown), and we have a hot pot of different Chinese, Vietnamese, and Taiwanese here. Strangely enough, the Chinese tend to be Overseas or from Hong Kong instead of PRC. Just look up San Gabriel Valley, namely Temple City and San Gabriel. I know my stuff. Dasani 01:23, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Census information[edit]

The census information only relates to people who identify themselves as ethnically Vietnamese, not as being from Vietnam. DHN 03:17, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

That is a fallacy. There was an article a decade or so ago in the San Jose Mercury News about the Chinese Vietnamese and census problems regarding them.

Additionaly, it probably depends on their length of generation in Vietnam and who they're with in the U.S., at least when they try to fit in and be accepted. If they're with more ethnic Vietnamese, they'll say they're Vietnamese. If they're with immigrants from China or Hong Kong, they'll say they're Chinese and try to act more like Hong Kong people.


Here is the link to that San Jose Mercury article [1]

Hong Tran[edit]

I think that this article is devoting a disproportionate amount of text on a minor candidate such as Hong Tran. If this article mentions everybody who "makes an attempt" to win an election, it would be full of such people. DHN 16:37, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

If you can supply me with some other Vietnamese Americans who have run for federal elected office (Senate in particular, since it is about the most powerful elected position below the Pres or VP), I would be more convinced. According to the source I cited, it is probably that she is the first to make such an attempt.Emcee 17:38, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Several people in OC are currently running for seats in the House of Representatives. It is likely that they won't win, but they will no doubt receive more votes than Tran. Tan Nguyen is the official Republican nominee for the 47th Congressional District of California. DHN 18:01, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't be against adding the OC V-A candidates, though I don't think that they discount the significance of Hong Tran's senate run, A.) because it's the lower house of congress, a less ambitious bid and B.) it's the concurrent election season, not a prior one. I'm looking for people who have run before. Emcee 18:55, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Note, the representative candidates also are not running statewide races -- they are elected in their congressional district only. Senate is a statewide election for federal office.Emcee 18:57, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I found somebody named "Tuan Nguyen" running for a House seat in North Carolina in 2002 [2]. He was the official Republican Party candidate and got 78,095 votes compared to the winner's 132,185. DHN 19:14, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok, you fulfilled criteria B.), but I think the Tran campaign still has the significance attributed to it in the article, as being the first to run for U.S. Senate, both in the state and in the country. I would support adding Tuan Nguyen to the article as the first to run for the House (if we can't find any others), but I don't think the Politics section is too long. How about this: deleting the second Tran sentence (with the NW Asian Weekly mention) but leaving the actual footnote/reference as a reference to the first Tran sentence. And adding a sentence on Tuan Nguyen as the first to run for the House.

Con Lai[edit]

This is an untrue or a wrong statement, because it doesn’t base on the facts. There are many Vietnamese Americans have married Eurasians and Amerasians. I want to say that whoever wrote the sentence the Eurasians and Amerasians ‘continued to face discrimination within the Vietnamese-American community after their arrival in America’ is spoken like communist Vietnamese. As in Vietnam, Vietnamese communist regime has always discriminated the children of the former regime officials ( the children of the former regime officials won’t be accepted and allowed to go to college or to go to overseas to study as a Visa students, because they consider bad citizens due to their fathers were former regime officials or were the friends of the Americans) and of course, the children of the foreign people, such as American Soldiers' children. Therefore, this statement is true when you apply in current Vietnamese communist regime, but absolutely not in the Vietnamese-American community.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.46.198.232 (talkcontribs) 07:12, 8 November 2006 (UTC) _________________________________________________________________________________

"Metis", "halfbred" is a scapegoat in any civilization and culture, in Anthropology and History, and it's worse in colonial situation, rejected from both side. Let's take the Canadian Metis, founding Manitoba and the 1945 massacre of eurasians at "Cité Heyraud" in Saigon.They were both hated and admired at the same time by both the French and Vietnamese. Particularly intresting is this short text in French on mixed identities in colonial Indochina. Not included is the fate of eurasian from Asian father and European mother.

http://vietdom.blog.lemonde.fr

Takima 18:19, 30 August 2007 (UTC) ________________________________________________________________________________

This section is getting a lot of anonymous edits and deletions. They will continue to be reverted until a coherent argument is presented on this page. In deference to the anonymous POV, I added a citation request for what appears to be the sentence that is disputed: the sentence that says that there is discrimination against Amerasians within the Vietnamese-American community. those who are supporting the current wording, please provide a citation or have this statement deleted. In the meantime, I would suggest that the anonymous editor(s) think of alternative ways to include their information, by editing/revising the section rather than deleting, or protesting within the article itself. This alternative viewpoint mainly seems to be that there is MORE discrimination in Vietnam than in the U.S. against Con Lai. I think it would be difficult to say that there is none in the U.S.
With regards to the anonymous accusations that the original writer is intentionally including disinformation, and that they should go back to Vietnam: please read and respect WP:AGF and WP:CIVIL.
Emcee 17:33, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Providing false information publicly without citation is serious unethnical behavior. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.130.144.54 (talkcontribs) 07:12, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Intentionally vandalizing Wikipedia pages is the only serious unethical behavior that is going on here. If you see something missing a citation, add a cite tag. If you see false information, identify it. The only issues you have brought up are possible POV issues. Behave like an adult. Emcee 08:01, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Providing false source links is also an unacceptable conduct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.79.113.162 (talkcontribs) 01:32, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

If you believe that the source links given are false, it would help if you could prove they are false (with other sources, of course); otherwise, they are likely to remain there until we have proof to the contrary. Honestly, using rhetoric like going "back [to] Viet Nam to live with Vietnamese communists" doesn't help the situation, because Wikipedia isn't trying to push any political agenda here; we're just trying to document the facts given the sources we know about. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 19:04, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Continue "Con Lai" discussion

The main point that I want to make is that whoever wrote the sentence ‘continued to face discrimination within the Vietnamese- American community after their arrival in America’ is spoken like communist Vietnamese, and he or she doesn't base on the fact when saying so. It is very similar to Vietnamese Communist when they tried to frame somebody; they don't care it is true or not. They just want to get what they want, regardless what approach they will take. Personally, I don't feel any ill thoughts toward Vietnamese Americans and my friends are feeling the same. So, if you think the Vietnamese Americans ‘continued to face discrimination within the Vietnamese-American community after their arrival in America,’ then you should speak for yourself. You should not speak for the entire Vietnamese Americans or put the words in the mouths of the Vietnamese Americans when he or she says such a thing, because there are all Vietnamese Americans that I know, they disagree with this sentence. As you know our language has usually indicated the type of the people that has tried to speak for other people as "tai khon," because he or she thinks whatever he or she speaks is for everybody and his or her words are the ultimate or final.

Southern or Northern[edit]

A Vietnamese friend in Saigon just asked me if most Vietnamese Americans are of Southern or Northern origin. I know there are both in the U.S. but I'm guessing that other than those Vietnamese Americans who were born in the U.S., most of those who emigrated came from the former nation of South Vietnam (though some may have been of northern origin). So is it possible to come up with a statistic for where in Vietnam (i.e. southern or northern) the first-generation Vietnamese Americans came from? Badagnani 04:00, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

The Southern accent seems to be dominant. DHN 04:31, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Deletion discussion[edit]

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Vietnamese Americans (2nd nomination). Badagnani 00:49, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Boston[edit]

According to List of U.S. cities with large Vietnamese American populations, Boston is the 11th-ranked city in terms of the number of Vietnamese Americans and thus can not be considered a region with significant populations. DHN 10:50, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Patent nonsense removed[edit]

I have removed unsourced and rather hilarious claims about the "Vietnamese Chinese" ethnic group. It appears that the author of this expression really meant to say "Hoa people". Of course, the unverifiable statements about Vietnamese surnames and that a substantial number of Vietnamese Americans have changed their surnames have been removed. David873 (talk) 07:07, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

It seems that you've taken your fight in the Nanyue article over here. You're injecting your POV into this article. Some Hoa do consider themselves Chinese and report themselves as such. I don't think the definition of Vietnamese ethnicity per the census includes Hoa, so I think it's disingenuous to add Cantonese. DHN (talk) 07:30, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
I am not sure what you mean when you claimed that I have taken the fighting from "the Nanyue article over here". If you are talking about my claim that ethnic Cantonese and ethnic Vietnamese are very similar genetically, culturally and linguistically, then I am afraid to say that I do stand by the claims that I have made so far with respect to the aforementioned similarities. David873 (talk) 10:55, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
I also find it amusing that you have a problem with the Cantonese language being listed in the template box, considering that the Hoa people (and their descendants) are mentioned in some detail in the article, are considered "Vietnamese American" and constitute a small but significant part of the Vietnamese American community. Perhaps you should check out Vietnamese Australian where no one has objected to Cantonese and Teo Chew languages being listed even though many of the Hoa people and their descendants have not even been counted! David873 (talk) 11:03, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Hoa[edit]

I'm just curious as to what the Hoa group is doing on this page. Should they really be considered part of Vietnamese Americans? My parents are both Overseas Chinese (my father even born and raised in Saigon), and they've always identified as being Chinese Americans. I think the person who added that is confusing it with how sometimes Hoa are seen as ethnic Vietnamese by other Chinese not familiar with them... I mean, all the Overseas Chinese I know consider themselves to be as Chinese as the ones from Mainland, Hong Kong, and Taiwan along with their parents. An example of this is that Overseas Chinese will still eat and speak way more Chinese and food than of Vietnamese language and their food, even after they've moved to Western countries. Also, that section has no references whatsoever. I think it might have to be removed. LadyGalaxy 22:53, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

I forgot to add that Hoa or children of Hoa might be considered Vietnamese Americans if they are half (ex. they have a Hoa dad and an actual ethnic Vietnamese mother). But that section basically says all Hoa are considered Vietnamese Americans. Maybe it can be changed? LadyGalaxy 22:58, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
I agree that the section reeks of original research, but it had been reported that many Vietnamese-born ethnic Chinese people in the United States identify as Vietnamese rather than Chinese in answering census questions[3]. DHN (talk) 01:36, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
But there's no citations... I mean, I'm not really good with references unless it's something obvious, like a newspaper article. So I don't know, even if I found a good source then it might not be appropriate. Shouldn't references be added? LadyGalaxy 03:46, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


Tila Nguyen[edit]

There is presently a dispute regarding the actress who goes by the name of Tila Tequila. She is verified to be born in Singapore, and had moved to Texas during her youth. However, in no citation provided in the article is there verification of her naturalization. Therefore, she is only verified to be a Vietnamese-Singaporean. That being the case, until verification can be made that she was naturalized the question I pose to the editors of this page is whether she should be included in the infobox of this page.--207.114.206.48 (talk) 13:27, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

This article does not require American citizenship to be considered Vietnamese American, and neither does any academic source. Besides, the vast majority of foreign-born Vietnamese people in the US are US citizens. DHN (talk) 20:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
However, to be termed as a Vietnamese American one needs to be ethnically Vietnamese, and have US Nationality, meaning that they either need to be legal residents, US national, or US citizens. Mexican Citizens who are here as undocumented or illegal immigrants are not considered Mexican Americans, but as Mexicans, period. Presently, we can verify that she was born in Singapore, thus the only thing we can verify is that she is Vietnamese-Singaporean. --207.114.206.48 (talk) 13:21, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Citizenry not required. YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 00:16, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
So you are arguing that only being within the borders of the US, or residency, whether legal or not, is all that is required to have American Nationality? Therefore, anyone can reside anywhere and thus claim that they are a given nationality, regardless of whether they have any legal standing to do so?--72.199.146.58 (talk) 07:30, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Opening Sentence[edit]

A Vietnamese American (Vietnamese: người Mỹ gốc Việt) is a resident of the United States who is of Vietnamese heritage.

Does one need to only be a resident within the United States to be called an American? Or does one need to be a US National, or US Citizen to be called an American in reference to the United States? It is my opinion that one needs to be a US National/US Citizen/legal resident. This definatly needs to be reworded, but given previous discussions I will hold on making an edit until this has been properly discussed.--207.114.206.48 (talk) 11:24, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
I give examples of why the opening statement of this article should be changed, in keeping with the opening statement of similar articles:

Filipino Americans (Filipino: Pilipino Amerikano) are citizens of the United States of Philippine ancestry, which trace back to the Philippines, an archipelagic nation in Southeast Asia.

African Americans or Black Americans are citizens or residents of the United States who have origins in any of the black populations of Africa.

--207.114.206.48 (talk) 11:56, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

This is the definition provided by various sources, including Encarta. Please provide a source that claims otherwise - else please don't inject your own POV into the article. The Filipino American article contradicts

itself - it uses citizenship as the defining characteristic, yet counts up to 4 million Filipino Americans - many of whom are not citizens nor legal residents. DHN (talk) 16:06, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Your deletion of the flag shows that your are not assuming that my edits are keeping with the assume good faith guideline and is further not keeping with the consensus guideline, therefore I will revert your edit, and return the flag. I would like to reach a consensus as to what the word American means in the context of the ethnicity-nationality adjective, and whether it is the inclusive form, which does not account for legality of the individual's residence, or the exlusive form, which does such as used in the French American article. Furthermore, if you wish to put in your thoughts on the matter I have asked for others opinions on a possible guideline in the Wikipedia:Manual of Style Biographies talk page.--207.114.206.48 (talk) 10:43, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
I have requested that you provide citations from reliable sources that the definition of Vietnamese Americans has to do with being US citizens. You have yet to do so. I have already provided a source that specifically mentions their residency. Please stop making disruptive edits by trying to create controversy when there is none. DHN (talk) 15:18, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
I have posted wikilinks regarding the usage of the ethnicity-nationality adjective in other wikipedia articles, and have also asked for discussion and consensus regarding the adjective in the guideline discussion page which I linked above. I can understand, since there is not consensus, that the sentence should be left as is, as I had done, but aslo because we have not reached consensus, the dubious flag should still have been left on the page. Furthermore, as I said before, the action of removing the flag was not keeping with the guidelines of Wikipedia.--207.114.206.48 (talk) 02:11, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
Information cited regarding the numbers of those claiming Vietnamese descent/ethnicity via the US Census does not indicate whether they are considered American, only that they have been counted, as stated in the US Census FAQ. However, keeping with the American wikipedia article, the word American means:

The word can be used as both a noun and an adjective. In adjectival use, it is generally understood to mean "of or relating to the United States of America"; for example, "Elvis Presley was an American singer" or "the American president gave a speech today;" in noun form, it generally means U.S. citizen or national (see names for Americans). The noun is rarely used in American English to refer to people not connected to the United States.[1] When used with a grammatical qualifier the adjective American can mean "of or relating to the Americas," as in Latin American or Indigenous American.


Within said quote is a citation to The Columbia Guide to Standard American English, written by Kenneth G. Wilson. Unless the page were expanded to the adjective qualifier "of or relating to the Americas" and is enlarged to be inclusive of all those of Vietnamese descent/ethnicity within "the Americas", then one would have to use the noun form which states "means U.S. Citizen or national". Therefore, the dubious flag should still remain until we reach consensus or the opening sentence should be changed accordingly. And since the wikipedia guideline says when there is not consensus, discussion and consensus should be reached before changes are made to the article.--207.114.206.48 (talk) 03:31, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
You still have yet to produce any reliable source that claims that Vietnamese Americans have to be US citizens or nationals (hint: Wikipedia is not a reliable source). Until you do so, I consider this a nonissue. DHN (talk) 06:44, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
You may consider this a non-issue, I can understand that. However, between us two we have not reached consensus. The reliable source for the use of the word American was given in the above reply, that being from 'The Columbia Guide to Standard American English' by Kenneth G. Wilson. Here is the relevent parts of said book in webform:

American (adj.), America (n.)

Until consensus is reach it would still be appropriate to flag the sentence as dubious, least it be reworded or supported by citation.--207.114.206.48 (talk) 08:40, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
As I have not seen any objections to the flagging, I have added it, per WP:DUBIOUS guideline. If this article is not specific to residents of the United States, and the word American is not following the context of the American (word) page, and the citation provided above, than maybe this article should be expanded to the usage of the word American, as it refers to the pAmericas. Otherwise, if as has been argued here, that this is not article is not limited to only US Nationals/US Citizens, than the introductory sentance maybe should read as follows:

A Vietnamese American (Vietnamese: người Mỹ gốc Việt) is a person of Vietnamese heritage who resides, irregardless of their immigration status, within the United States.

--207.114.206.48 (talk) 07:19, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
I still have yet to see any "controversy" about this definition. I don't see how you can see there is no objection per the discussion above. I have added a reliable source that specifically defines Vietnamese Americans this way. Please provide another reliable source that contradicts this if you wish to dispute its validity. DHN (talk) 08:41, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for providing the citation, however, the problem is one can reside in the United States, but one cannot be a "resident of the United States". Per the IRS, and immigration law (see Alien (law) and/or United States nationality law), one falls under several catagories:

*Enemy Alien
*Illegal Alien
*Nonresident Alien
*Resident Alien
*US National
*US Citizen

One can be a reside someplace, irregardless of immigration status, and one can gain residency, but legally there is no definition of resident, that I can find. Oh, and I have created an account now.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 09:14, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Please see WP:SYNTHESIS. DHN (talk) 09:42, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Invitation to discussion[edit]

Active editors of this article are invited to join the discussion regarding the change in Asian American article's infobox. Specifically we are looking to get nominations for individuals who would fall under this article, nominations shall remain open until 9 November 2009. Comments are also welcomed. Thank you in advance --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 13:19, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

FYI, the nomination process is now over, and the voting period has began. Due to lack of nominations the slot for Laotian female representative is vacant, and will need further discussion sometime after voting has been concluded. The voting period will last until 4 December 2009. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 20:13, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Vietnamese Americans in New Orleans[edit]

This could be a good source WhisperToMe (talk) 05:06, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(Vietnamese)#RfC_on_spelling[edit]

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(Vietnamese)#RfC_on_spelling. KarlB (talk) 14:19, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Please clean the external links[edit]

This article is starting to look like a glad bag of links of varying relevance to the topic matter. It would be useful for someone to review Wikipedia:External links and then clean the less important and relevant links from this article. Thanks. — billinghurst sDrewth 13:33, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Infobox image discussion[edit]

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Asian American#Infobox ethnicity representatives. RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 07:30, 4 October 2012 (UTC)