User talk:Chrisjnelson/Archive 24

Kenny Smith

Is Kenny Smith (American football) a free agent or is he on the Patriots roster?--Yankees10 17:56, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Under contract until free agency begins on 2009.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 18:03, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh so he was on the Patriots roster this season--Yankees10 18:19, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Smith was signed by the Pats in the summer (he was with them for 2007 camp too), was placed on IR, and finished the season there. I was a bit surprised he didn't get an injury settlement. Pats1 ^T/C 18:32, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

yeah I hadnt realized he was on IR, thanks--Yankees10 18:34, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Jim Mora Jr.

He's not officially the Seahawks coach yet right? Cause some IP's and new users keep changing his page and this one and this one.--Iamawesome800 14:48, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

And I created another page that I'd like you to take a look at.--Iamawesome800 23:10, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

I know he's supposed to be eventually, but I don't believe Mora is the head coach yet. But I'm not sure the situation.

Also, his name isn't Jim Mora, Jr. He and his father don't have the same middle name, so they aren't Sr. and Jr.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 03:44, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I would keep the succession box for Mora as a head coach because he signed a contract back in January that makes him the head coach but I'm not sure if he is the head coach yet so I would still keep him as assistant head coach. By the way congrats Chris with the Dolphins making the playoffs. --Phbasketball6 (talk) 22:48, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Okay, and on all infoboxes I put on {{NFL Year|2008}} or {{CFL Year|2008}} and so on but what do I put if they played in Europe?--Giants58 17:54, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

We generally don't include NFLE teams in the infoboxes, since most players are still members of their respective NFL teams. In this case, I have cleaned up Tony Brown, so don't worry about it. Pats1 ^T/C 18:03, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I only do NFLE teams if they were not signed with an NFL team at the time. I mean if a guy played for the Broncos from 1998 to 2007 and played in NFLE, there's really no way to keep the timeline intact when you have another team in the middle of a tenure.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 19:55, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah that makes sense.--Giants58 20:04, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Hey can create a college infobox color for Delaware?--Giants58 20:32, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Like me do it or you?►Chris Nelson^Holla! 22:05, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

You as I don't know how to, see User:Iamawesome800/Sandbox, if your wondering why.--Giants58 22:11, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Done.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 23:50, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks!--Iamawesome800 00:11, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Infoboxes

When should the infoboxes for incoming nfl players be switched, such as the ones for Shonn Greene and Kenny Britt?--Iamawesome800 02:52, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

After the draft. They aren't NFL players until then.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 02:55, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Okay, that's what I figured, but just wanted to make sure.--Iamawesome800 03:12, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

What a joke

Sparano got ripped off of the AP Coach of the year, how does a team go 1-15 and win the division the next year and the coach not win the award. The Falcons barely even made the playoffs.--Yankees10 17:26, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't have a problem with it. There are good arguments for both.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 21:53, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

The Dolphins barely made the playoffs, either. If they had lost Week 17 to the Jets, they would've been left out. I thought Sparano would've won it, but Smith wasn't a bad pick. Ksy92003 (talk) 02:30, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

College football colors

Can you add the Rice Owls colors to the college infobox.--Yankees10 02:48, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Kelly butler

Could you atleast let me finish first, before you start to change half of what I did? Crash Underride 20:34, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, didn't know you were gonna immediate edit after.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 20:45, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

That's ok, I'm not mad. My immediate goal is to get the af2 template moved into the AFL one. I just need to figure out how to make the part where it says "Arena Football League debut" able to disappear if it's left empty, like the stats one, except not use two columns like it does. GRRR!!! Crash Underride 20:58, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

P.S. You might wanna consider using a collapsable archive box, like the one on my talk page. Saves ALOT of room. Crash Underride 20:59, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Do you feel the AFL debut is necessary? On the NFL one, I just changed to "Professional debut", which includes NFL, CFL, AFL, Af2, NFL Europe, etc.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 21:00, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh, no, I don't mean on the NFL infobox. I'm doin' it for the Arena infobox, at least for right now. What I would like to have done is have a universal infobox, such as here, however it's not worked out the way I'd like it to have, that has a section for each league. So if a player, has played in the AFL, NFL, and CFL, it'll have a section for their debut in each one. Yet, if they haven't, the debut sections for the leagues they haven't played in will be null, and not appear on the page. Crash Underride 21:04, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

I know what you meant, I was just asking if you feel a debut for each league is necessary in the infobox. That could potentially take up a lot of room if a guy has played in the NFL, CFL and AFL and I'm not sure it's all necessary for the infobox itself. I think since a lot of guys don't always play right away after they enter the pro level, since they get cut during camp, get on practice squads, etc. that a Professional debut section is good enough.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 21:08, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

True. It's just, now this is just my opinion, that having only one date might confuse some readers. I'm not sayin' everyone's stupid or anything like that, I just think to help clarify. Especially if some players where in two leagues in the same year, and played in both. That might confuse some people, espeically if they don't know which league plays when, such as af2 or the CFL. And that's why I want it to (at least try) to be the only one like, (year) for the (team). layout Crash Underride 21:11, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Why would that be confusing? It doesn't matter when the leagues play each year. Professional debut is pretty straightforward - when the player first played professional ball. Plus, the list of teams and tenures tells the reader what order they players for what teams/leagues.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 21:13, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Not always, I've come across articles that don't have the teams in EXACT order. They just list them by year, not the order the player was with the team in, I've fixed them, but I've seen'em.

Maybe it if is didn't just say the year, maybe the actual date (mm/dd/yyyy for [team]). Crash Underride 21:16, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Here's an example of what I mean, about the date. It's on my sandbox, from a templates sandbox. Crash Underride 21:24, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Huh?►Chris Nelson^Holla! 03:32, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Look at the professional debut section here. That's what I meant. About the team lists, I've seen them listed out of team order, but in order by year. Sorry to confuse you, guess that's a Georgia education for ya. lol :D Crash Underride 16:50, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't think specific dates of debuts are necessary for football. You only have one game a week and roughly 16 games a year, the dates are pretty random and just happen to be Sundays and Mondays. It's not like baseball where you have a 162-game schedule and play nearly every day.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 05:47, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

College colors template

I copied and pasted the hex colors from the official colors on the school's athletic departments articles. I may have accidentally pasted the same one in both primary and secondary (like I did with ULM it looks like)... But I tested several others and they were good (AF, Akron, Ark State, Ball State, Colorado State), and I'm still checking out the rest. If you see an error why didn't you fix it instead of reverting the whole thing, because as of now, I'm not seeing that there are "a lot of them that don't work". Strikehold (talk) 04:11, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Some of them just aren't easy on the eyes, like with what you did to Georgia. A lot of the ones already on the template that you changed need to be changed back.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 04:15, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

I checked the UGA one when I originally did it and didn't think it was hard to read (and same for UF), but if you think it is I don't care if you change it back. But I don't see the point in removing 30 or so that do work and are perfectly readable. Strikehold (talk) 04:33, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Because I don't trust you to do it right.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 04:35, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Fortunately, I really don't care what you think. I would point you to WP:CIVIL, but it's clear from your ban log that you have a learning curve of zero. The colors you've used on a lot of these make no sense and have absolutely no resemblance to the schools colors. They are not "easier to read". As for putting words, it seems to work just as well as hexidecimal codes (You yourself changed one hex code from #FFFFFF to "white"...) in both Firefox and IE. Strikehold (talk) 20:17, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Because #FFFFFF and white are identical. But purple and the shade of purple a team might use are not the exact same thing.

All of my colors make sense, they all come from the official websites. And yes, many of them are easier to read. If you want to argue that just for the sake of it, that's your problem.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 20:23, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

No, actually, they do not make sense. West Virginia does not use an almost black blue, Virginia does not use red as its secondary color, Maryland's colors have never been red and yellow together, etc. Strikehold (talk) 20:39, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

As I already said, all colors were taken from the official websites. I've never gotten a color from anywhere else.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 20:42, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Chris is right. Pats1 ^T/C 20:59, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Okay, then let's take Maryland as an example, as I know them best. They have not used any primary and secondary colors other than red and white for anything more than one-off blackout games since 2000. Before then it was black and gold, black and white, but never have they used red and yellow (or gold) as the primary and secondary color. I don't care what some contracted-out website developer decided to make the text color on the official website. (See: [1] and scroll down to "History of the Uniform").

(Pats1, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I'm not sure what stock you think I would put in one of Chrisjnelson's friends popping into the discussion and saying "Chris is right". If you have something more substantive to add then by all means I'm willing to hear it out.)

Strikehold (talk) 21:17, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

It's not a matter of uniforms, but a matter of logos. Pats1 ^T/C 21:28, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Logos? Where do you get that? That's not what school colors are based on, as they pre-date the use of logos in almost every instance. By your logic, Maryland's colors should be brown and red? Strikehold (talk) 21:34, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

The school's logo is trademarked; only the "real" school colors are used on it, provided it's a clean version like from Creamer's website. Pats1 ^T/C 03:35, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Colors from official site = good. Where are you getting yours? Up until an hour ago you were just using generic color names. Clearly mine were more official.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 21:38, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Most of the generic color names were taken from the colorboxes on the respective team articles. Many of them were new teams altogether (like Albany, Eastern Kentucky, and Lafayette (Pa)) and others like "navy" you've used yourself. Third, I just showed you that the websites don't necessarily reflect the actual official school colors. If you hadn't simply reverted 30 new entries and responded with snide comments, maybe we could have come to a consensus instead of getting into an argument in the first place. Strikehold (talk) 22:31, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, that's not good. You're taking unofficial colors (from the colorboxes, anyone can put those up), and using them as the official infobox colors. Pats1 ^T/C 03:35, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

That's circular logic. You also said that these infoboxes aren't official in and of themselves. Strikehold (talk) 03:49, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

No it's not. WE know the infobox colors are right because we got them from the source. We have no idea who put up the color boxes on team articles.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 03:51, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

It is circular logic to say: "You're taking unofficial colors (from the colorboxes, anyone can put those up), and using them as the official infobox colors." And: "It's not like making these the two colors on infoboxes on Wikipedia are an official declaration of what the team's primary and secondary colors are; it's merely an illustration of the team's colors to decorate an infobox." Strikehold (talk) 04:28, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

You're confusing the two statements. The first is in regards to the actual hex colors that are used; the second is in regards to which colors are "officially" the primary, "officially" the secondary, etc. You can interchange - to some extent - the latter, but you can't alter the former. Pats1 ^T/C 12:19, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

The colors in my opinion are red and white and while I agree with what Chris and Pats said in saying that it's red and yellow. The helmets are red and white.--Iamawesome800 00:41, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm fine with the Maryland colors being red and white. Even though red and yellow are still both team colors and I think it looks better, but it really doesn't make a difference. At least the colors I gave Maryland were taken from Maryland itself, and not just made up on the spot.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 02:03, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

There in lies the problem: You are putting in colors which you "think look better" rather than what they should actually be. And no, yellow is not a Maryland color, gold is. And it isn't a secondary color, it's a quaternary color. You know full well I didn't "make up" anything, just another ad hominem attack. Strikehold (talk) 03:24, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

"Yellow" can mean a bunch of different colors, but it's only one hex color, which may or may not be accurate. You can't use "blue" or "dark blue" for the Patriots and expect it to be accurate; there is only one hex blue that the Patriots use, and there's a pretty good chance it's neither "blue" nor "dark blue." So you can't say that "oh, Maryland's colors are red and white" (or Miami's colors are green and orange), and just use the generic "green" or "orange" colors. As far as determining which colors are primary, secondary, etc.,; that's what you have to do in some cases. If a team's colors two primary colors are dark blue and a lighter blue (like the Seahawks), you can't use those both on an infobox because it's nearly impossible on the eyes. In that case, you have to relent on the whole "primary/secondary color tradition" thing and make the tertiary color (in the case of the Seahawks, green), the new secondary color to create contrast. It's not like making these the two colors on infoboxes on Wikipedia are an official declaration of what the team's primary and secondary colors are; it's merely an illustration of the team's colors to decorate an infobox or navbox or whatever you want. Pats1 ^T/C 03:35, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

I understand your points. But using the "generic" color names simply sets it to the default hexadecimal code. It's not an exact science, but neither are the colors used on the schools' athletic websites necessarily authoritative (just as infoboxes aren't an official declaration on the colors in themselves). I also appreciate the readability issue. This whole ordeal is pretty silly. But the root cause is the mass reverts done without any discussion or addressing specific readability or accuracy issues. Strikehold (talk) 03:47, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and Strikehold per your comment earlier of "I would point you to WP:CIVIL, but it's clear from your ban log that you have a learning curve of zero", it's clear to me that maybe you should read WP:CIVIL.--Iamawesome800 03:28, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

And I suggest you read the edit summaries. Strikehold (talk) 03:32, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Why?--Iamawesome800 03:42, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Uh, it's yellow. It's just called gold to sound more badass. Just like the Steelers - black and gold. It's freaking yellow. But anyway, I'm not just "making up colors I think look good" - I picked a COMBINATION of colors of official colors I got from the OFFICIAL TEAM WEBSITE. Yes, including the yellow/gold for Maryland.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 03:45, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

You know what, I have to say the red and yellow works better for the reasons stated by Chris and Pats.--Iamawesome800 03:47, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

I think the real reason I picked yellow over white is because red and white looks so generic. The red and yellow at least looks more tailored to Maryland.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 03:48, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Marcus Monk

He returned to Arkansas for basketball, so should the NFL infobox be replaced by the NBA infobox or should both be there?--Iamawesome800 17:20, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Definitely.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 01:44, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Sorry wasn't in when you messaged me, but with the asterik thing, I get it from NFL.com and usually they'll have a season stats thing but he didn't when I looked so that's why I put the asterik.--Iamawesome800 19:52, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Check Rotoworld, for the Jaguars moves.--Iamawesome800 21:19, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah I don't see them...►Chris Nelson^Holla! 21:22, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Neither do I. Pats1 ^T/C 21:24, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

It looks to me like he saw their names on PFW and thought they were signed to futures rather than had PS contracts expired.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 21:25, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Yep, screwed up, must be really tired :)--Iamawesome800 21:31, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

No sweat, I almost made that mistake a few times while updating PFW last night too.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 21:33, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Re: Carolina Panthers

Sorry 'bout that. I had checked the Panthers official site, several news outlets, and NFL.com, and found nothing. I suppose we'll keep it up there until we get something more concrete, because I'm still mildly wary of that site; I'd prefer to see it on the official Panthers page at some point. But again, my apologies for preemptively cutting out your edits. Anthony Hit me up... 19:08, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

There's nothing to be wary about, it's sourced through the Rock Hill Herald via Rotoworld. It's true. Official sites and NFL.com aren't the best sources for transactions.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 19:11, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Travonti Johnson

Is this Travonti Dawson him?:http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL+Zone/Transactions/default.htm?mode=nfceast --Iamawesome800 19:57, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it's a mistake. There is no such player named Travonti Dawson.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 20:55, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

That's what I thought.--Iamawesome800 20:58, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

PFW does make mistakes like that sometimes. Go with what's logical. Pats1 ^T/C 21:00, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Like the Mike McGlynn thing.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 21:48, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Copyrighted Images

Sorry, I didn't know that was allowed, and I wanted to add pictures for those players. But I don't get why I can't upload images for players... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bearsfan1234 (talk • contribs) 23:25, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Request

Hey, I noticed you reverted some vandalism over at Brooks Bollinger, if you don't mind could you warn the vandal with the warning shown at Wikipedia:Warnings. Thanks.--Iamawesome800 Talk 20:31, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Why didn't you just do it? Haha.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 20:37, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

I did, but I mean in the future, plus I'm lazy.--Iamawesome800 Talk 20:43, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Well I don't like doing it either haha!►Chris Nelson^Holla! 20:44, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah but, per this I'm lazier.--Iamawesome800 Talk 20:58, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Hey question for you, is Wali Lundy retired cause the infobox says retired yet the intro claims he's a free agent. And shouldn't Harry Williams be listed on the inactive list instead of an exclusive-rights free agent.--Iamawesome800 Talk 00:49, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

What do you mean by inactive list? There only exists such a thing on gamedays (i.e. the inactive players of the 53-man roster). Williams was placed on IR after his injury, and IR expires at the end of the season (well, end of league year maybe). Williams' contract is expiring and therefore he is an exclusive rights free agent because of his accrued seasons. The fact that he will never play again makes no difference until the team actually does something (like place him on Reserve/Retired). Pats1 ^T/C 03:27, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Well if he's an ERFA, he just won't be tendered and he'll retire as a UFA right?►Chris Nelson^Holla! 04:18, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Right. Pats1 ^T/C 14:22, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Dorien Bryant

A tag has been placed on Dorien Bryant requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for biographies.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the article or have a copy emailed to you. Tool2Die4 (talk) 21:01, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

By the way it was brought over to AfD at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dorien Bryant.--Iamawesome800 Talk to Me 00:45, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Kay-Jay Harris

Noticed you just put him as a free agent, but he's already on the roster a RB, so your edit put him on there a 2nd time, so I undid your edit as I'm not sure whether his deal is expiring or not.--Iamawesome800 Talk to Me 01:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

He's a free agent.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 01:58, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Okay moved him over from RB.--Iamawesome800 Talk to Me 02:02, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Huizenga-Ross percentage

Do you know what the percentage of ownership of the Dolphins is, cause some IP said it's 95 for Ross and 5 Huizenga which I doubt since it's an IP.--Iamawesome800 Talk to Me 22:33, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

No, that's right: [2]. Pats1 ^T/C 23:19, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Wow, Huizenga really getting rid of a lot of the team there.--Iamawesome800 Talk to Me 23:51, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah he even blamed Obama for doing it now. Hahaha.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 00:04, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Nice :-)--Iamawesome800 Talk to Me 00:28, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

College player infobox

Can you add the colors for the Central Washington Wildcats and San Jose State Spartans.--Yankees10 00:58, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Done.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 01:25, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks--Yankees10 01:25, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Hey

Check this out, give me your feedback.--Iamawesome800 Talk to Me 01:26, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Haha a little early, don't you think? :-P ►Chris Nelson^Holla! 01:28, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

I know but I had some free time (a lot of it), so figured I'd do at one tonight.--Iamawesome800 Talk to Me 01:31, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Well I'm not sure much feedback is needed. Just make it like the other templates and you'll be good to go.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 01:35, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Robert Felton

Did Robert Felton ever play for the Packers cause that's what his bio says yet there are no sources saying this.--Iamawesome800 Talk to Me 20:29, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Not that I'm aware of.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 23:47, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

For the record...

Wake is making minimum salary. It must be all incentives then. So we were both right. I guess. Pats1 ^T/C 01:37, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

I know. You're an idiot.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 01:59, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Executive session, AIM. Pats1 ^T/C 02:09, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Undrafteds

Hey, you voted for being a starter, I agreed, as did Lowellian and Mastrchf. That was a unanimous decision behind that requirement. How is that not consensus? Then Mastrchf asked how many games, and argued for at least four. I thought that fine, and no else said different. So I took the time to verify that everyone had at least four games. Carpenter kicked every field goal for the Dolphins. The only outlier was MrShamrock who argued that none of the players should be included because the article was about drafted players, which you and I soundly rebuffed.--2008Olympian^chitchat 08:13, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Well when I voted starter, I meant a regular starter, a guy that has earned a starting spot and keeps it for at least a season. For example, a large reason Wesley Woodyard started six games was because the Broncos' linebackers were decimated with injuries. For the most part, he's still just a special teamer and could easily (in fact, more likely) never be a starter in the league. As of now, I don't consider him a particularly notable college player.

Additionally, as good as Peyton Hillis was when he started for the Broncos at tailback, he only ended up starting due to multiple injuries at the position and likely will never be a long-term option at tailback. If he becomes a long-time starting fullback, I'd be fine with his inclusion. But as it stands, he's started a handful of NFL games and, like Woodyard, it was due to a number of injuries. I just don't consider that the same as earning a starting job and keeping it for an extended period of time.

Carpenter I will agree on though, since even though kickers don't "start" games he did hold the Dolphins' job for an entire season. And odds are he'll probably keep it beyond 2008. So there's certainly an argument for him and I wouldn't really contest his inclusion.

I don't mean to fight you on this, I just don't believe undrafted players are particularly notable just because they do these things that lots of undrafted guys do. It's impressive for an undrafted player to earn a starting job, make a Pro Bowl, etc. It's not impressive for an undrafted guy who is primarily a special teamer to start a few games because four guys ahead of him got hurt in a short span.

I didn't really watch the talk page closely so I didn't see all of the discussion and didn't put a ton of time into it. However, I'd be more than willing to continue discussing it there.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 08:22, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Si, I want no battle, I have no dog in how this is decided, I am just trying to follow consensus as best as I could divine it. I think a "regular" starter is what Mastrchf wanted as well. Actually, I think that of all of the undrafted free agents who played, to whittle it down to five players is pretty tight, considering we had twenty on the list at one point. Gary Guyton played a lot and didn't make it, nor did BenJarvus Green-Ellis, and he had over 100 yards one game.

As for those who have so far, Mike Tolbert was the starter most of the year and would have started more if he hadn't been hurt. Peyton Hillis was the only undrafted Diet Pepsi NFL Rookie of the Week this season and isn't he number one on the Broncos depth chart? And isn't Davone Bess a regular starter now? If you want to vote for more games started to be required, I would back you. We should bring the discussion to the main talk page, however, to modify the existing discussion.--2008Olympian^chitchat 08:41, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Tolbert there could be an argument for as well, though I still don't think he's started enough to warrant inclusion at this point and I doubt he ever starts a ton with Jacob Hester around.

As for Bess, I think he could have a future as a slot receiver, but he didn't start until Camarillo got hurt. Don't think he's worthy yet.

And again, when it comes to guys like Green-Ellis and Hillis, they started, but primarily because of injuries. It took injuries to Maroney and Morris for Green-Ellis to start, and injuies to Selvin Young and Ryan Torain for Hillis to start. It's entirely up in the air whether either has a long-term career as a starter, and 10 years from now, if Green-Ellis never plays another down, will it really be notable that he had 200-something yards on a mediocre average as a rookie? I don't think so.

Like I said, I just think earning a starting job is the key thing here. If making a roster as an undrafted guy isn't notable (and I don't think it is) then neither is starting due to injury, because there really is no difference there. Any player on a roster would start eventually if enough guys went down.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 08:49, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

And LaMont Jordan. All at the same time. ;) Pats1 ^T/C 14:01, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Saskatchewan Roughriders roster

Hey what are you doing over there?--Iamawesome800 Talk to Me 00:14, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Just went out to dinner. Gonna finish it now.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 02:26, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

He's in love with the CFL now. :D Pats1 ^T/C 02:29, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Haha yeah. So random. I still don't fully understand how it all works yet. Guess I'll pick up on it.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 02:29, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, you know me. I'm diehard NFL, inside and out. You know I'm not that big on college football. Pats1 ^T/C 03:43, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Neither do, I, took me the whole day to realize that the italics were not rookies but instead imported players.--Iamawesome800 Talk to Me 02:36, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Well I'm not so much getting into CFL ball as I am just keeping up with the rosters so I have an idea who the players are if they ever come to the CFL. It'll help to know where to look for past team info if I have to create articles.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 03:45, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

I put the free agents back because according to this it starts on February 16th.--Iamawesome800 Talk to Me 03:47, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

FWIW, NFL free agency doesn't start until after then and we already have the FAs up. Pats1 ^T/C 21:16, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your edits to the Riders' roster. However, you unceremoniously removed several players who were signed. The CFL's website does not do a very good job of tracking transactions, as such players who were signed to deals (such as Justin Beaver) during last season for this season will not appear. As well, the names for positions as listed are the names the Riders use and as such reflect what the team says each player plays. All rosters are listed with the players being listed by number, not alphabetically. The "practice squad" in the CFL is called the Developmental Squad. Suspended players are not automatically unsuspended at the end of the season, as such both Clovis and Cherniawski are still members of the Riders. Lastly, Luca Congi and Jamie Boreham are not punters and kickers, Congi is the placekicker and Boreham is the punter. The formatting is inconsequential to me, but please leave the editing of who is actually on the Riders to someone who follows the team. Shootmaster 44 (talk) 01:09, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Most of that is fine. I'm still learning. However, it seems some CFL team sites do call it the Practice Roster. One CFL player I know even called it that in 2008.

Also, it doesn't matter how rosters are listed anywhere else. We do it alphabetically here on all CFL and NFL rosters, and thus the Roughriders rosters should remain consistent.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 01:16, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually, the CFL wikiproject decided that the roster are numerical. Ergo, they are consistent with the rest of the CFL unless the rest of the rosters have been played with also. As well, the change in the term was made by Commissioner Cohon when he took over, regardless of what the players call them, that is what the official name is Shootmaster 44 (talk) 01:25, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Well then we'll re-open the discussion. They shouldn't be listed differently as NFL rosters since it's the same template and basic format. All should be alphabetical or all numerical. Can you should me where the consensus was established?

The NFL is American Football and the CFL is Canadian Football, therein lies the difference. It appears no consensus was made, however if you look at the histories of all the templates prior to your edits, they were made numerically. The easiest way to resolve this issue is to make them sortable, akin to Template:Los Angeles Kings roster. If you can make the edits to this, then it suffices both rationale correct? Shootmaster 44 (talk) 01:41, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Also, it is not standard to list such specific positions. They change too often and there's really no reason to go there. There's no need to define what kind of defensive end a guy is or what side of the play a linebacker is on. OLB is sufficient for the roster. The official website has more details and we link that in the template.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 01:27, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

In fact, in Canada we do not have OLB, it is not something that exists in Canadian football. Linebackers are always referred to as WIL (weak-side) and SAM (strong-side). You have to remember that there is a 12th man in Canadian football, so American naming conventions are not followed. Shootmaster 44 (talk) 01:41, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually, that's EXACTLY the same as NFL football. WILL and SAM, weakside and strongside, that's all from the NFL and every other level of gridiron football. And both are OUTSIDE linebackers. WILL and SAM are outside, MIKE/middle is inside.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 01:43, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

What I meant is that no one actually refers to them as Outside Linebackers. You have WIL and SAM linebackers and that is how even some TV people refer to them. I'm simply going by official Riders material. It is how they are listed in the gameday programs and on their weekly depth chart during the season. Shouldn't an encyclopedic listing of players be as meticulous as possible? If notice the edits to the roster during the season, I do make the edits if someone moves from Right to Left Guard or whatever, so if someone is willing to do so why question it? Shootmaster 44 (talk) 02:04, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Well then at the most it should be SLB and WLB. No need for full words. Also, there's no need for RG or LG, RT or LT for offensive linemen, because we both know offensive tackles and guard are used in the CFL.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 02:07, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Jake Long

A Pro Bowl alternate never plays in the game. Therefore, they are not a "Pro Bowler" for that year. Ted Gin was a Pro Bowl alternate in 07' as a kick returner. Nobody got injured, so he did not go to the game and remained a Pro Bowl alternate. Chad Pennington is the AFC's third alternate at QB. He will not be considered a "Pro Bowler".

Jake Long is a "Pro Bowler" and therefore a "Pro Bowl Selection." Now, he was not originally selected from the fans and other players for the initial team, though he would be considered an injury replacement Pro Bowl selection. He is not an alternate anymore. He was up until he was "selected" to fill Peters' slot.

If your thinking was correct you would see a lot of wiki player pages with the Pro Bowl awards split into two categories(alternate and selections). However, guys like Kerry Collins, Julian Peterson who just like Long this year replaced an injured player are considered "selections".

Again, a selection is a Pro Bowler, an alternate is not. Jake Long is a Pro Bowler, therefore a selection. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nublar7 (talk • contribs) 16:38, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

MLB 2K9

They're still convinced that MLB 2K9 will come out on 3/2, a Monday, instead of 3/3. JAF1970 (talk) 19:08, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

This happens with EVERY video game. People see shipping dates, the Mondays, and take them as release dates instead of Tuesdays. It's retarded.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 19:28, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Please, for the love of God, go to the MLB 2K9 talk page and tell this fool who keeps insisting that it doesn't matter what I think is "right" - as if it's my opinion that release date = store shelves. I keep telling him that people who believe the March 2 date are going to be awfully disappointed when they stroll into GameStop and ask for the game and the cashier tells them "Sorry, it's not in yet." It's called dissemination of wrong information. JAF1970 (talk) 19:17, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

See? They're batshit crazy. JAF1970 (talk) 03:52, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Just forget it. Once it comes out on March 3, I'm willing to bet we'll be able to source it.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 03:54, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

ProFW

Was just updated through at least 1/19. The Amon Gordon to Philly is right (NFLPA still has him with the Titans), there's nothing on Miles back with the Giants, and nothing with George still on the Saints (and ProFW had George to MIA in the first place). So NFLPA still needs to be updated on all of those counts, all of which you were right on. ;) Pats1 ^T/C 22:33, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

If you would just admit I'm always right, we can save ourselves a lot of time.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 00:28, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

CFL Player Template

Just an FYI, when adding an info box to a CFL player's page, this is the template used:

Gene Makowsky

No. 60     Saskatchewan Roughriders
Born:	(1973-04-17) April 17, 1973 Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
Career information
Status	Active
Position(s)	G
Height	6 ft 3 in (191 cm)
Weight	270 lb (120 kg)
College	University of Saskatchewan
CFL draft	1995, Round: 2, Pick: 23
Career history
As player
1995-present	Saskatchewan Roughriders
Career highlights and awards
CFL All-Star	2004, 2005, 2006, 2008
Career stats
Playing stats at CFL.ca (archive)

I prefer the other one.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 01:16, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Agreed.--Iamawesome800 Talk to Me 01:18, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

However, the consensus at the CFL wikiproject was to use the other one. So preference unfortunately has no bearing. Shootmaster 44 (talk) 01:21, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm still gonna add the other one.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 01:22, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

I think I came up with a compromise see the CFL wikiproject talk page.--Iamawesome800 Talk to Me 03:04, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Ew, my horribly out-of-focus pic of Makowsky. I really ought to get a proper camera. DoubleBlue (talk) 04:34, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Welcome to WPCFL

and thanks for all your past work!

The Maple Leaf Award is hereby awarded to Chrisjnelson for contributions to Canadian football articles and structures. DoubleBlue (talk) 04:33, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh yeah sure give him one but not me, I know how it is.--Iamawesome800 Talk to Me 20:25, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Heh, I know you're just joshing but I should probably make clear that I am recognising Chris for his history of work on CFL bios and roster templates. His recent addition to the WPCFL member list just reinforced to me his commitment to improving Canadian football related articles. DoubleBlue (talk) 21:35, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Tyler Palko

Hello there! You've edited the Tyler Palko article to say that he's signed to a future contract with the Arizona Cardinals on December 31st. I cannot find a source to confirm or deny this; where did you hear this? Slingstone (talk) 11:51, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't believe Chris is in right now but anyways he's a source [3].--Iamawesome800 Talk to Me 14:06, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Here's the original source.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 14:13, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you both.Slingstone (talk) 20:28, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Mike Furrey

Chris--Although Furrey says he's been released, he is still officially a Lion until at least February 8. Samer (talk) 19:25, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah I saw his comments now. Where'd you get the February 8 date though?►Chris Nelson^Holla! 19:27, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually it's 2/9; the article I linked explains it in the fourth or fifth paragraph. Samer (talk) 19:32, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Got it. Thanks, I knew that. Guess I was just too anxious to make changes.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 19:33, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Blue Bombers moves

Where did you see them?--Iamawesome800 Talk to Me 22:02, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Main headlines on CFL.ca.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 22:03, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

ive never talked to you

what are you talking about retard ive nrver sent you a message DCsniper207 (talk) 23:37, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

why dont you dumbass i didnt do anything to you --DCsniper207 (talk) 00:23, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

:Chris, you've helped me get used to editing here, so now I'm gonna try and help you. Your edits on DCsniper's talk page were extremely uncivil, and based on your block log, you're getting close to being like this guy, he kept getting blocked for edit warring, incivility and personal attacks and now he's indef. blocked and unless you want to be like that, I suggest that you stop making personal attacks.--Iamawesome800 Talk to Me 01:15, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I personally dont think he said anything that was uncivil--Yankees10 01:22, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Well I did it because 1) He's clearly a douchebag because of his username; and 2) he makes retarded comments on talk pages, like "i hope the steelers draft laurinitis they probably wont though" on the 2009 draft article. He's a moron, I have no respect for him.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 01:22, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

yeah really that is such a stupid name and really not appropriate--Yankees10 01:26, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

You know what that is pretty stupid on top of this comment on Lofa Tatupu, and on a side note, I hope the Giants draft Laurinits :-)--Iamawesome800 Talk to Me 01:34, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

See? You're right that I shouldn't say anything that would get me in trouble. I just don't like people like that even here, they don't contribute anything.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 01:35, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Look at this shit. He marked the 2009 Pro Bowl article for speedy deletion...►Chris Nelson^Holla! 02:13, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Hes just a vandal--Yankees10 02:43, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

WTF?--Iamawesome800 Talk to Me 02:53, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Look at this thread pure entertainment.--Iamawesome800 Talk to Me 02:58, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

MLB Front Office Manager

Can you tell that moron in who keeps putting at the release date that he's being an officious prick? Honestly. JAF1970 (talk) 21:31, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Back me up here

Here I mean, honestly - can you buy something in a store that isn't at the store yet? This is the way it's been since the 1920's. Sheesh. JAF1970 (talk) 21:36, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Charleston Hughes

Check his Calgary Stampeders bio for the Lions info.--Iamawesome800 Talk to Me 23:02, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I explained in my null edit summay on the Eagles roster. I checked KFFL.com, DetroitLions.com, and our own Wiki roster from May 2007. Hughes was never on the Lions, he only tried out at a minicamp.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 23:04, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

replacing direct links with templates to links

What is the point of edits like this? The templates you replaced the links with simply make those links. Your edit is not in anyway progressive and is contrary to the intended use of templates. Ordinary links and categories should not be hidden within templates but be clear in the raw wikitext. DoubleBlue (talk) 06:22, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

It's actually not; city-state gives a link for the city, state and then a link for the state. Many articles use this. Pats1 ^T/C 12:07, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Obviously the link can be made exactly the same though I fail to see the need. If there's a link to the place of birth, why does one also need a link to the state of birth? DoubleBlue (talk) 09:14, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

It's better.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 17:07, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

How? It's identical in function for the reader but hides the syntax for the editor and requires a template call from the server when the page is called. DoubleBlue (talk) 09:12, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

The same can be said about any template. In that case, I'm sure sure that taking up issue with Chris is going to do anything. There are a lot of templates like this one there (and it's not like city-state is just used on NFL articles), so it your issue is broader and should be taken up with the appropriate outlets in Wikipedia. Pats1 ^T/C 12:30, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

No. templates are intended for boilerplate messages and styled boxes that can require updating; not for adding simple wiki syntax. DoubleBlue (talk) 18:47, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Templates like this are used across Wikipedia. Taking up issue with this one template with Chris isn't going to change anything. Start a RFC or something. Pats1 ^T/C 21:27, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

And I believe you know my feelings about this. It is not the standard; in fact it is contrary to WP:NCP. Some good reasons are found at WP:NCSP but clearly without any other football player with the same name, disambiguating the code of football is unneeded and is harmful for cases such as this where the player may play multiple codes of football. In fact your preferred article title, Pat MacDonald (Canadian football), is followed by the introduction, "Patrick MacDonald is an American football long snapper"! Does not make a lot of sense. Just dab him (football player) and explain who he is and what he does in the article, like with every other article on wikipedia. DoubleBlue (talk) 06:30, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

But the problem is most articles are not done that way, so it needs to remain consistent until the point where we get a new consensus. I agree that it's not a great system, so we can definitely bring it to a project page and revisit it if you'd like.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 17:07, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Please stop moving articles for now, it needs to be discussed. I'm not against you and I will argue with you to chage the consensus, but articles need to be kept consistent for now.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 17:15, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Chris, you do know that most of the articles he moved have to moved back (if consensus decides that) by admin because the Canadian football versions are now redirects.--Iamawesome800 Talk to Me 19:55, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

The standard was to name (football player) for a long time; recent crusades to change them have and will continue to be contested; the ANI discussion decided that the mass moves by Tavix should be reverted. The standard is that dabs for people describe the person, notwithstanding the recent adoption of (baseball) and the strange use of (ice hockey). This particular issue, where the dab defines a particular code of football when players play multiple codes, is an example of a benefit of using the most general descriptive dab, rather than being too precise. DoubleBlue (talk) 09:10, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

I think it should always be "gridiron football."►Chris Nelson^Holla! 14:32, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Agustin Barrenechea

His birthplace is redlinked so should I keep it there?--Iamawesome800 Talk to Me 18:03, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 23:08, 30 January 2009 (UTC)