Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games

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New articles - 10 February[edit]

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Salavat (talk) 06:34, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

Review Thread No. 31: It's 2017 and a Month Edition[edit]

We have a lot of GANs. Let's get started.

FAC
GAN
GAR
Peer Reviews

Also we still have requests from 2012 in the Request board if anyone is interested in making new articles. GamerPro64 17:42, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

  • Someone uninvolved should just close and demote the Space Marshals GAR. It's been open since August and issues still have not been addressed. --The1337gamer (talk) 18:09, 12 February 2017 (UTC)
    • I'll go ahead and do that. GamerPro64 18:10, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

Begging Thread[edit]

  • Well, I have been focused largely or entirely on the two articles, Xbox One and Kinect Star Wars, that I wish to greatly improve, of which I had wanted one to reach a GA status, but I did not receive suggestions for improvement so far this year. Perhaps, it is because of my recent attitude for how I would deal with conflict? (P.S. Is this what the begging thread is used for: advertising one's GANs, FACs, etc.?) Gamingforfun365 01:54, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
  • I currently have Steins;Gate Drama CD Alpha, Beta, and Gamma up at GAN and am interested in trading reviews. Jaguar, would you be interested in reviewing it in exchange for a Wipeout review?--IDVtalk 15:43, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
Sounds good! I've taken your GAN. JAGUAR  19:02, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
Cool, I'll do Wipeout Fusion then.--IDVtalk 19:17, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

World of Guns: Gun Disassembly recreation and reworking proposal[edit]

I am not positive that this is the right procedure to bring it to your attention. User UY Scuti, in a discussion here, suggested I discuss the reworking of deleted article for World of Guns: Gun Disassembly with the Video games project members. The previous version of the article was deleted on dubious significance / scant sources. Here is my case for its recreation as a small article or stub.

Besides a few reviews of the initial version of the simulator (1, 2, 3), the game was briefly featured twice on Rock Paper Shotgun (here and here). Notably, World of Guns was also covered very positively in one of the more popular (and, uniquely, politics-free) US firearm culture blogs, The Firearm Blog.

This, I think, reflects its unique position: it lies somewhere between being a hardcore simulator, a casual game for proverbial CSGO fans, and a real, viable engineering reference and teaching aid (The Firearm Blog editor notes that he actually used the game as a reference for repairing old firearms). The effort put into the simulation library over the years seems sizeable to say the least - developers list "150+ models with 19 000 individual parts".

Here is its Russian-language article - according to ref section, it got more coverage in the Russian-language gaming press, including a segment on a TV show about videogames. Also, the game seems to be reasonably popular in terms of user base (Steam Spy lists around 2.2 million installs, and Google Store lists "1 to 5 million" installs for the earlier version of the app; plus about a million users total on VK.com and Facebook).

Being an avid firearm enthusiast, I've personally used the app a lot over the years. I think it's extremely unique, sort of like Microsoft Flight Simulator of firearms. Pity it doesn't have more coverage, again probably because of its awkward position between casual and niche markets. So, these are my points for creating a stub / small article with a video game template. AyeBraine (talk) 01:35, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

  • I do think it is likely that an article could be made out of this. Please start Draft:World of Guns: Gun Disassembly and make it a reality, then let us know so we (or at least I!) can look it over before moving it to mainspace to ensure it won't get re-deleted.  · Salvidrim! ·  14:28, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
  • Also, you can use WP:VG/S to see a list of video game related sources that are considered acceptable/not acceptable on Wikipedia too. Touch Arcade and Rock Paper Shotgun are currently classified as reliable sources, at least. Sergecross73 msg me 14:48, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
  • @Salvidrim: @Sergecross73: I've laid out a draft of the new article here. (BTW it turned out Rock, Paper, Shotgun featured the game - or rather its previous version, but these are like the versions of software, expanding on each other - in quite in-depth articles, in their simulation/wargame section.) Would be great to hear your input on what I should do next! AyeBraine (talk) 20:14, 22 February 2017 (UTC)
  • You're not supposed to have categories and fair-use images in Draftspace, but instead of getting you to remove them, I've moved the article to mainspace -- looks mighty fine to me, and is so far superior to the previously deleted version that it won't possibly be deleted again (at worst, re-nominated for discussion). Good job!  · Salvidrim! ·  20:43, 22 February 2017 (UTC)
  • Thanks a bunch! I didn't think to read rules about drafts for some reason. AyeBraine (talk) 21:29, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

New articles - 17 February[edit]

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Salavat (talk) 02:48, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Artists, Writers, Composers in Infobox video game series[edit]

See Template talk:Infobox video game series#Artists, Writers, Composers. --The1337gamer (talk) 15:30, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Attendance at TooManyGames 13 (2016)[edit]

Does anyone know the attendance number for that edition? If so, please edit it in, since I couldn't find it (which is why a left a question mark in that cell of the table). I already wrote a copy of this post at Talk:TooManyGames, but I then Copied and Pasted here just to cover my bases. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 03:20, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Nathan Drake and Drake the rapper[edit]

Please feel free to contribute to this discussion regarding a comparison between the fictional treasure hunter and the highly-awarded rapper/musician. – Rhain 06:16, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Categorizing hybrid video games[edit]

I was thinking if there is any logic to trying to categorize video games that are firmly established to be a hybrid of two or more genres by design, or if this starts getting too far into where original research can take over how things are included into the category.

I do note that for thematic genres, there exists such categories for films (eg Category:Science fiction films by genre). My only consider is given how people fight hard to include certain genres (like the fight to include "survivor horror" for BioShock from some years back), this is an area that could be gamed easily. I would make it clear that any categorization for these hybrids has to start with developers stating their intention to make a hybrid game, or similar language to that effect ("We wanted to make an FPS with elements of DOTA..." would work if quoted from a developer). I would definitely avoid third-party assessment even if from RSes, as here we are strictly talking about design choices and not how others saw it.

There's a bunch of bookkeeping details we'd have to discuss if we agree this is a direction to go, so I'd like to see if this is a potentially bad idea or not first. --MASEM (t) 18:11, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

"Creator"[edit]

Try to avoid this term. It's used in the gaming media all the the time, but it's a fuzzy term at best and only leads to confusion. Stick to what they were actually credited as in the game. Call them the producer, director, writer, etc. Also it's well known that many people called "creator" don't actually like the term and feel it simplifies things down too much and makes it sound like one person did everything.

"There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person," says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex. Source

--Harizotoh9 (talk) 20:04, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

  • Is this a problem on WP? I don't believe I've seen it in any articles.--IDVtalk 21:24, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

I've made a few edits in the last few days doing this very change. For example here. --Harizotoh9 (talk) 22:46, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

This is a good catch, and something for everyone to keep in mind. I didn't even see the link yet and was already thinking about Shinji Mikami specifically. He is often credited as the "creator" of Resident Evil, however, Tokuro Fujiwara is credited as the same on the Sweet Home page. Another good example would be Yuji Naka always being credited as the creator of Sonic when others like Hirokazu Yasuhara and Naoto Ohshima were deeply involved. - TarkusAB 23:37, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Resident Evil is a nice example. Who could you say is the singular "creator"? The initial idea and general conception came from Fujiwara, who wanted a 3D update to his game Sweet Home. And the conception took a lot of changes from initial conception to the final product. Also what role, if any did the two people credited as writers have on the product? Did they just fill in dialogue, or did they have any impact on the story at all? That's why it's best to avoid the singlar "creator". These are always group projects with lots of input from tons of people. Here's how Akira Kitamura described the process of making games:

Ariga: I can see that Mega Man really was a team endeavor, like you were saying.


Kitamura: Yeah. I used to say to the staff that creating this game solely according to the image in my mind would be a mistake. If we didn’t make Mega Man from the sum of everyone’s contributions—music, graphics, and the rest—it would be meaningless. That irresponsible notion, that “if only everyone thought just like me, I could make the perfect Mega Man!” … I think that’s the most damaging thought for a creative endeavor. I spent a lot of time trying to get everyone to understand that. Source

--Harizotoh9 (talk) 23:51, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Just to play devil's advocate, the only time I could see "creator" being valid is for a true single-person development, like for a small indie game. It's much easier to call Christine Love the "creator" of Digital: A Love Story than to call her the "writer and developer and designer". --PresN 00:06, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
Some additional potential edge cases: Undertale where Toby Fox did nearly everything but some art assets, and Stardew Valley where, up until porting, was all one person's work. --MASEM (t) 00:22, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Even for edge cases or single preson games, I'd avoid doing it. I'd just list everything that they did alone. ie "John x worked on the game, doing the music, graphics, programming and art alone".

Also another problem is Keiji Inafune. He and others introduce him as a "game creator", then list all the games he's worked on. Even if his contributions to those series are really tangential. Example. This just adds confusion. Adding to it, his official title for many of his games at Comcept is "Comceptor", which doesn't translate very well into a normal role. Also there is the persistent myth that Inafune is the "series creator" of Mega Man or that he designed the character. Inafune himself denies that. --Harizotoh9 (talk) 02:08, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

You can put phrases into google to find pages like this. It seems to show a lot of pages:

Example --Harizotoh9 (talk) 23:53, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Irrational Games is now Ghost Story - few bookkeeping issues[edit]

Today, Irrational Games announced it is now Ghost Story. I've already done updates at the article, but there's a couple of bookkeeping things to be aware of:

  • http://irrationalgames.com will likely disappear or redirect soon, and I know there are a few cases of links using content from here. We need to get these archived
  • We have the navbox {{Irrational Games}}. I'm tempted for now to leave that as is, keeping the Irrational Games name but adding Ghost Story to it, as that name is very much recognized and associated with BioShock, SS2, and others, and it may be confusing to eliminate it entirely in favor of this yet well-known name. In time, we can movie it but not presently. --MASEM (t) 21:49, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
Something else to consider, because it's not perfectly clear: it does sound like this is a rebranding, but I can read the sources to say that Irrational Games was put to bed and a brand new studio Ghost Story (under Take Two) created, which means then I would revert the changes to make separate Irrational Games (as a history company) and Ghost Story (as a new firm), which then simplified the template matters. --MASEM (t) 21:59, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
Some input would be helpful here too. Talk:Ghost Story Games. Gamasutra has confirmed that the studio is the same business entity as IG and this was just rebranding, but from a more philosophical side, they are treating this as a new studio with no history and IG being a separate thing. To that end, the question is if we should still split off IG and Ghost Story as to respect that, or if we are "bound" by the fact that it is the same business division to keep in one article. --MASEM (t) 14:44, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

List of most expensive video games to develop[edit]

Article is a bit of a mess. Some recent back and forth over Star Citizen (Essentially claims the total crowdfunding = development cost) has me trying to clean it up some. I've tagged all the sources that appear unreliable, and started removing the unsourced entries that I can't find anything for... In particular, none of them seem to mention a budget at their main articles either. Looking for some assistance in reviewing the unreliable sourced entries, or adding entries that are missing you may know about. -- ferret (talk) 23:14, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Vgrelease template, named parameters to be removed[edit]

The maintenance category for named parameters on {{Video game release}} has been empty for sometime now, except for occasional reverts of old diffs/redirects. I am confident that all existing usage has been converted. I plan to remove the named parameters next week, at which time, the unnamed parameter syntax of Vgrelease new will be required. -- ferret (talk) 00:38, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Draft:List of Good Game reviews[edit]

Please see Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Draft:List of Good Game reviews.

We are thinking of moving this unsuitable article draft into your reference library, because it looks useful to work from. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 05:00, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Seeking opinions/consensus on a two-step merge/split[edit]

Please see Talk:Academy of Interactive Arts & Sciences#Proposing a complicated Merge/Split , specifically I am suggesting we split off the DICE Awards to its own article, and merge the contents of the DICE summit article to the otherwise short AIAS article to avoid notability issues. Both articles appear low traffic from editors so just getting a few eyes. (I have a feeling I could be bold and no one would care, but juuust in case...) --MASEM (t) 01:18, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

New articles - 24 February[edit]

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Salavat (talk) 02:14, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

GDC and free images[edit]

As your yearly reminder, with GDC next week, the official GDC account at Flickr [1] nearly always publishes photos of the event (speakers, awards ceremony, etc.) with Commons-acceptable license terms. Thus, please upload anything useful to Commons (categorize it under the "Game Developers Conference 2017" category). --MASEM (t) 02:38, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Slight name dispute[edit]

@GamerPro64, Jaguar, Masem, Tintor2, and PresN: I need input on this.

There is a slight dispute rising about the naming of Nier: Automata. The article was original titled without its stylization in the main title (Nier: Automata) as with the article for its predecessor Nier (which is technically stylised as NieR). But NightShadow23 insists on having it written as NieR:Automata in the article title and all. I disagree with this, but I wish for a general consensus, and perhaps by extension show if there's any kind of consensus on game titles that use odd stylization or symbols in their titles. --ProtoDrake (talk) 14:54, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

See official website (screenshot). Also see Faceboock (screenshot) and Twitter (screenshot). This is the official name. Federal Chancellor (NightShadow) (talk) 14:56, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
The official name for Nier is NieR, but I don't think it was agreed to alter it. Also, the official title for Kingdom Hearts χ is Kingdom Hearts χ[chi], but there are technical reasons for the alteration. I've also seen plenty of film titles that don't use the "official" stylization, like Seven. Is there anything in Wikipedia policy about titles? --ProtoDrake (talk) 15:01, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
Kind of reminds me to s-CRY-ed. If you want NieR but wikipedia can't move it, maybe we could use !display title".Tintor2 (talk) 15:27, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
The stylisation of names should be formatted by how prominently it is styled in sources. For example, every Wipeout title uses an exotic stylisation, so I didn't rename Wipeout 2097 to wipE'out"2097 for obvious reasons. Definitely keep Nier how it was, as long as the capital 'R' isn't used in the sources, otherwise it's not important and can just be hatted in a note. JAGUAR  15:49, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
  • MOS:TM has always been fairly clear we use "Nier" regardless if it's "NieR", "NIER" or whatever. WP:COMMONNAME decides if we use "Nier: Automata" or "Nier" or some such. The only exception is the first letter. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 17:39, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
  • Agree with all said above. Unless the "R" in "NeiR" is some initialism, then we stick with "Neir". --MASEM (t) 18:08, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
  • Agreed. It's Nier, not NieR, Don't Take It Personally, Babe, It Just Ain't Your Story, not don't take it personally, babe, it just ain't your story, Thatgamecompany, not thatgamecompany, etc., at least when it comes to article titles. We use standard title case for article titles, even if the developer/publisher use a strange capitalization/diacritic scheme. It should remain at Nier: Automata, even if the first sentence mentions that it's officially NieR:Automata. --PresN 19:01, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
  • According to Wikipedia's ways, it needs to be at Nier. Anything else is just a stylization. Sergecross73 msg me 02:01, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
  • Quickly checking Edge Magazine #301, which had an in-depth piece on the game, the article consistently refers to the game without quirky capitalization. ~Mable (chat) 08:16, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Name that source code[edit]

Hi guys. Last year someone requested clarification on one of the sources used at Lemmings (video game). 'Sequels' section, ref No. 63. They want to know what source code the game (or at least the released code at this particular website) is written in. I know almost nothing about code, so can someone else take a look and tell me what it is? Cheers. Freikorp (talk) 02:37, 27 February 2017 (UTC)