Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games

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New Articles (7 November to 17 November)[edit]

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Salavat (talk) 10:01, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

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Salavat (talk) 06:04, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

Cortana (Halo) at FAR[edit]

Greetings everyone. I'd like to bring your attention to Cortana (Halo), which I believe falls so far short of FAC standards that it's actually quite embarrassing. I'd argue this article is B-class at best. It reached FA about a decade ago at a time when standards were no doubt lower, though even in the version it passed in I'd argue it doesn't meet FAC standards today, and it's fallen to the weeds considerably since then. Just take a look at the reception section. It begins with information about the character receiving as 'sexy makeover' for Halo 3; where's the reception from the first game? There's an embarrassing collection of listicles pretty much all saying she has nice tits, and sources that don't even meet RS, let alone 'high-quality'. There's also zero coverage of the reception of the character from academic sources, even though a quick search on google scholar finds a plethora of sources to could be mined. And that's just some of the issues with just the reception section.

This is one of only two featured articles for female video-game characters. Due to the lack of featured articles on this subject, and due to my own lack of experience writing about video-game characters at the time, some time ago in my attempts to get Jill Valentine to FAC I actually modeled parts of it off Cortana, since that was one of the only two templates I had to work from. Once I was confident JV met and exceeded the standard set by Cortana, I nominated it for FAC. After two failed FAC's and a seven week peer review there still isn't a consensus that JV meets the standards for FAC. Based on this, I am well aware that Cortana cannot be improved to FA standards without at least several weeks of intense work, if not several months. I've started a discussion on that articles talk page about my intentions to list it at FAR. This is the first time I've proposed an article be taken to FAR. All comments are welcome. Freikorp (talk) 09:58, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Having taken a look at the article, I'd recommend putting it up for review. I don't think it's as low as a B class article, as I think it would still be a good GA article; however featured is a bit of a stretch; and if you feel as positive about this; maybe formally suggesting the review might be a good way forward. I'm not particularly familiar with the review process, however so I might be going about this in the wrong way.
The article was placed as a feature article in 2008; so it's more than possible that Wikipedia guidelines, and the article itself may have changed in this time; requiring a second look. Lee Vilenski(talk) 11:21, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
I agree it's not really what we'd expect for a Featured Article today. One thing is concerning is the use of several "top 10 babes" or similar lists in the reception which we've come to recognize as "poor" material to include, at least from the quality of sites given. There's other ways to describe that she was recognized for her sex appeal beyond these and that would help. I also worry how much plot detail there is. I would look to something like GlaDOS, which while not FA or GA, at least has a lot more weight of secondary sources rather than focused on the primary work. --MASEM (t) 15:02, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
The article has now been listed at FAR. Wikipedia:Featured article review/Cortana (Halo)/archive1. All comments are welcome. Freikorp (talk) 07:58, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Need to provide advice for getting free images from dev[edit]

Over at Talk:Tim Schafer, a person who seems legit to be an employee of Double Fine had requested some changes to the article to remove some factually wrong elements (eg games he never worked on). I guided them through to avoid the COI issues, but I noted they were able to provide a newer image of Schafer. I asked on the off-chance if they could provide any more free images and they seem able and willing to provide those for games DF owns the rights to completely (Psychonauts, Broken Age, possibly others).

I don't know how the best way is for them to proceed to 1) verify their identity via OTRS as to make sure this is a legal person with the rights to put those free , and 2) how they should then upload or provide the images. Can those who have worked with studios potentially help here? --MASEM (t) 14:21, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Permissions need to come from the rights holder (usu. PR/comms dept of company if not the exec in charge) by official email address. They can copy/paste the standard consent to permissions-commons@wikimedia.org (OTRS) and, ideally, cc you. For photos, either the permission needs to come from the photographer or if ownership was formally transferred, the company needs to say so (acknowledges photographer's rights). Happy to handle it if you want, just let me know czar 17:57, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
Czar (talk · contribs) If you can help them along , that would be great, I've not had the chance to help walk someone through. But we have a good "in" here to get a bunch of useful free images, so I don't want to screw it up :) --MASEM (t) 02:49, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

New Articles (23 November to 1 December)[edit]

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Salavat (talk) 15:39, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguation links on pages tagged by this wikiproject[edit]

Wikipedia has many thousands of wikilinks which point to disambiguation pages. It would be useful to readers if these links directed them to the specific pages of interest, rather than making them search through a list. Members of WikiProject Disambiguation have been working on this and the total number is now below 20,000 for the first time. Some of these links require specialist knowledge of the topics concerned and therefore it would be great if you could help in your area of expertise.

A list of the relevant links on pages which fall within the remit of this wikiproject can be found at http://69.142.160.183/~dispenser/cgi-bin/topic_points.py?banner=WikiProject_Video_games

Please take a few minutes to help make these more useful to our readers.— Rod talk 19:53, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

New Reviewer For The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt GAN Needed[edit]

Original reviewer left me hanging for two months without as much as a reply, despite several pings. If you're interested, click start review on the revised GAN template, which opens GA2. Cognissonance (talk) 20:56, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

I'll take it. Freikorp (talk) 13:44, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Video games and charity[edit]

I'm looking at starting a "Video games and charity" article to document known efforts. The only thing I would like to see if anyone else knows if there's any real effort before Child's Play (2003) to push well-documented, large-scale efforts in games. (2003 is key, that's the year with Jack Thompson and a bunch of negative "video games are violent games", the reason why CP got started.) I can't find anything else, and given the next big one, Humble Bundle, points back to CP as inspiration, that's the best start I can think of. --MASEM (t) 02:52, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

I would look into the edutainment space for examples. Those types of games often had collaborations with schools to encourage cognitive health and wellbeing. An example that springs to find is Carmen Sandiego Days, which saw Broderbund offer free packs in these organised yearly rituals to facilitate children's learning in which they extrapolated knowledge from the video games. Examples such as these would be a precursor to video game charities, no? Proof that they were more than twitch devices for basement-bound teens? I suppose it depends on how you define 'charity'. Surely those days of old when people would freely share their source code counts in some way as charity - in opposition to the capitalist model.--Coin945 (talk) 05:11, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
Technically that is. The distinction could be made between corporate-driven charity (which that would be) and player-driven (Child's Play/Humble/etc.) --MASEM (t) 05:30, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Humble Bundle and Games Done Quick started at around the same time. That's all I have to add to the discussion ^_^; ~Mable (chat) 11:25, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

  • I did find this interesting video though: https://archive.org/details/Battle-Of-The-Video-Games-1983 (Description: "Four three-member celebrity teams play video games for charity"). It's a part of the celebrity-raising-money-for-charity trope, but it also shows that even in 1983 video games had a link to charity.--Coin945 (talk) 11:39, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Microsoft has done some charity work for the WWF with their Zoo Tycoon series:

TarkusABtalk 12:35, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

List of Playstation 4 games[edit]

While looking at the List of Playstation 4 games recently I noticed that the article had been split into two sometime in September. The base List of PlayStation 4 games, and List of Playstation 4 games M-Z. The thing is that the list of Playstation 4 page uses an automatic script to count the number of games, as stated in the article header, the M-Z article has no such header which makes me wonder if the number of titles for the first page is the actual number of titles on the system or if it's just the number of titles in the specific range. We also probably should get a similar script running on the M-Z page. --Deathawk (talk) 04:42, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

The script on the first half references both pages. If you look at the expression in use you'll see that it's adding the row counter from both pages together. -- ferret (talk) 12:52, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Considering that List of PlayStation 4 games only coveres games from A-L I think it should be changed to List of PlayStation 4 games (A-L) since the current title implies that it is a overall list of all the games on the platform.--67.68.21.146 (talk) 22:03, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
    • If this is not already standard in a guideline or policy somewhere, it really needs to be. Also this page is a mess, why are there six different "exclusive" fields, when all you really need is two, perhaps three? (Yes, no, or Sony exclusive) ~ Dissident93 (talk) 23:15, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

List of unsourced video game articles[edit]

Is there a way to access a list of unsourced video game articles? From what I've uncovered so far, you can only access a list of every unsourced article, by the month that the 'unsourced' tag was added. But I want a list of only video games. :)--Coin945 (talk) 03:10, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

Yep, what you're looking for is the intersection of (unsourced articles) and (video game articles), so head on down to catscan. Here's the intersection of "All articles lacking sources" category with "articles that have a WPVG template on their talk page":
I've been unable to successfully load this page.--Coin945 (talk) 01:25, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Nintendo Company navbar[edit]

@Jax 0677 created Template:Nintendo Company last week. Would like opinions on it, as I stepped in when Nintendo consoles started to be added individually as "toys" when we already have Template:Nintendo hardware. There are several dedicated Nintendo navbars, and I'm not sure a giant "everything about nintendo" navbar is needed. -- ferret (talk) 16:03, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

  • Reply - I created this navigation box, as it ties many of the other lists and navigation boxes together. The two people, the three legal cases, and many other items do not fit well in any other list nor navigation box. Therefore, I feel that this navbox is indeed useful. --Jax 0677 (talk) 16:09, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
  • I like this navbox, and I don't think it even needs all that much work. The "People" row has unclear inclusion criteria right now. Seeing as there is already a "Nintendo presidents" navbox, I don't believe a "People" row is needed at all. Merging the two is also an option, however. The "Toys" row should not include consoles, and the "Products" row is good as is, including only the two lists. I'm gonna try to merge the two, though. ~Mable (chat) 18:48, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
    I editted it a bit more, and I think the navbox looks pretty good. It is odd that we have an article on Nintendo Australia, but not on Nintendo of America. Why is this? This navbox would definitely be perfect for listing the head offices. ~Mable (chat) 19:07, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
    It's been questioned before whether or not Nintendo Australia is truly independently notable. -- ferret (talk) 19:20, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
    I would definitely expect Nintendo of America to be so, though I haven't actually researched the topic. I know these head offices are commonly discussed in casual conversation, at least. ~Mable (chat) 19:24, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
    I brought that up at AfD a while back, and it failed due to lack of majority delete consensus. I'm debating whether we should try again, because I really don't see why this article should exist. It basically only mentions Nintendo-relevant things in Australia, and doesn't explain why the division itself is notable, which something like Nintendo of America would be. Most of this info wouldn't even belong on the main Nintendo page, yet it gets a pass to remain as a standalone article because it has been around for a decade and has lengthy prose? ~ Dissident93 (talk) 21:31, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
  • The new navbox is fine. As a note, I'm thinking we also probably need an article specifically on Nintendo's recent focus on mobile games, particularly with today's announcement of them offering emulated GC/Wii titles for the Nvidia shield in China. --MASEM (t) 19:11, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
    A List of Nintendo mobile games featuring all the items in this template? ~Mable (chat) 19:16, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
    I just finished putting together Nintendo mobile games (But I see I'm missing a few of the other licensed games). Note it's more than a list, I get into the history of this. --MASEM (t) 01:17, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
    Very nice work, Masem! Looks really nice :) ~Mable (chat) 09:45, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Thoughts on having Fusajiro Yamauchi in this template? I don't really see the point of having only one of the Nintendo presidents in there, even if he were the founder. That being said, merging the Nintendo presidents template into this one seems like a pretty decent idea. ~Mable (chat) 20:13, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

M2 contradiction[edit]

A while back, I edited Panasonic M2 to state that the console was demonstrated at the 1996 E3, sourced to the 3DO article in Retro Gamer #122. But I've just now discovered an article in GamePro #95, contemporary to that E3, which says, "The 'other' 64-bit gaming technology failed to show up at E3. According to a Panasonic spokesperson, the company's parent corporation, Matsushita, is still determining how to handle the M2 technology it bought from The 3DO Company for $100 million. Apparently, Matsushita hasn't decided whether it will even use M2 in a gaming platform." Unfortunately, my copy of the Retro Gamer is another state at the moment, so I can't check it to make sure I didn't simply make a typo. Anyone know how to resolve this?--Martin IIIa (talk) 14:52, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

  • The Retro Gamer article reads as follows: "At E3 in 1996, Trip Hawkins had posed proudly next to three prototypes for the M2 and had demonstrated IMSA Racing. So, when the 3DO M2 failed to emerge at the 1997 E3 Show, supported by rumours that 3DO stalwart WARP had canned the sequel to cult classic D, most people predicted the inevitable." Trip demonstrating the M2 at E3 in 1996 makes no sense, as he sold the technology in 1995 and had nothing more to do with it. My guess is Retro Gamer is off by one year on these events. I would suggest looking at the 1995 mags and seeing if that IMSA Racing demonstration is mentioned. If it is, we know for sure that RG goofed. Indrian (talk) 17:16, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
    • A quick glance on YouTube indicates the M2 and IMSA Racing were demonstrated at E3 1995, while there are no 3DO or M2 vidoes from E3 in 1996. While still not definitive, I think this points once more to Retro Gamer being off by a year. Indrian (talk) 22:44, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
      • Thanks Indrian! You're always a great help. I looked over the 1995 mags as you suggested, and Next Generation indeed talks about an M2 demonstration with photos of IMSA Racing. GamePro and EGM also say M2 was shown at the 1995 E3, though they don't give any indication of what software was used for the demos. Going to correct the article now.--Martin IIIa (talk) 20:34, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Infobox space[edit]

Can Template:Infobox video game, Template:Infobox video game series and Template:Infobox video game character be edited so that they can have more space for data? These three infoboxes don't afford much space, especially the character infobox. For example, take a look at at the infoboxes for Solid Snake and Dante (Devil May Cry); the labels on the left side are taking way more space than the data on the right side. In contrast, other character infoboxes such as Template:Infobox character and Template:Infobox animanga character allow way more space and their fonts aren't too large, see Darth Vader. -- Wrath X (talk) 09:45, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

This is the same topic you've brought up before, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Archive 128#Infobox video game and video game series. Same suggestion: Stop using the multiple language labels which are long, and instead use {{Vgrelease}} to list multiple languages in the normal field. I provided an example last time. -- ferret (talk) 11:46, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
Solid Snake done. Dante is a mess and needs re-thought. Suggest having a table due to so many different voice actors and linking the infobox to it. -- ferret (talk) 11:50, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
The problem is no one uses {{Vgrelease}} and no one will use it. That method isn't mentioned anywhere in Template:Infobox video game character. What is mentioned are the English and Japanese voice actor fields, and editors will continue to use them. You're the only who came up with the {{Vgrelease}} method; it wasn't agreed by consensus. Who knows if other editors will agree to it, there's bound to be disagreements regarding your method. -- Wrath X (talk) 12:11, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
Suit yourself. There's an alternative available that results in shorter labels if you want it, which is widely used for multiple fields in {{Infobox video game}} already, even in fields not mentioned in the template documentation. Updating template documentation is easy. -- ferret (talk) 12:16, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
The problem is no one uses {{Vgrelease}} and no one will use it - well, the template is used on over 14000 pages (compared to 22000 for Infobox VG), so that's a heck of a lot of no ones. If you mean "no one uses it to condense the voice actor lines", that just means they hadn't thought of it. If you think it's better, use it. If you don't, don't. Claiming that you can't because of an invisible potential lack of consensus for something that hasn't been tried yet isn't a strong arguement, and isn't how consensus actually works- someone has to try something first before other people can have an opinion. --PresN 12:52, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
Another alternative for a mess like Dante, if a table outside of the infobox isn't desired, would be to use two collapsible lists in voiceactor, each labelled with the language. -- ferret (talk) 12:59, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
For Dante (as the example), if you either chose the actor most associated with the role, or simply left it at "Various", or removed the specific games, and in all cases, putting such a table in the body of the article, you'd get a lot of space back and use the infobox more effectively. --Masem (t) 14:57, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Direct proposal to remove japanactor[edit]

I mentioned this the last time WrathX brought it up, but I think we should just eliminate this field altogether. The labels are too long when it is in use, and other character infoboxes don't use separate fields like this. There's only 650ish uses of the infobox, so I'll handle the cleanup.

General proposal: Infobox video game character has three fields for voice actor: voiced_by, voiceactor, and japanactor. When both voiceactor and japanactor are used, the language is suffixed to the field label, taking up most of the space in the infobox. The fields voiced_by (In template but not documentation) and japanactor will be removed and condensed into voiceactor. Where only a few names are used, {{Vgrelease}} will be used to quickly list the entries next to their language (See Solid Snake example). In cases where long lists of voice actors exist, such as Mario, Princess Zelda, Dante, etc, a collapsible list will be used to wrap each set of actors, with the language as the title, similar to how we do release date when many platforms exist.

I'll do this work in a few days if no one voices a strong opposition. -- ferret (talk) 13:09, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

  • I agree with this. If it was up to me, I'd remove all mentions of Japanese actors for non-Japanese developed characters. Do we really need to list who voiced a Call of Duty character in Japan (hypothetically)? This sort of info belongs in prose instead. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 22:51, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Under way, see as an example. -- ferret (talk) 13:53, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

Secondary proposal: Retire VG Character completely[edit]

What does Template:Infobox video game character (Approx 650 uses) bring us over Template:Infobox character (6266 uses)? The latter includes enough fields to handle any in universe subtemplates we have as well. -- ferret (talk) 13:34, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Only doing a cursory glance, but could the VG char one be redone as to build a templated call to the main infobox character but filling in the spare labels that infobox character offers? ----Masem (t) 14:53, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
I'll side with Masem here. Both infoboxes appear to contain the same parameters, and a templated call / merge into Infobox character could allow for expansion of the current VG character template as a whole. compare Template:Infobox video game character to Template:Infobox character. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk • contribs) 15:18, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
I agree with Masom on this point too. --ProtoDrake (talk) 15:22, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
From what I can tell, Infobox character has the same dedicated fields. Most of our in universe subtemplates also have dedicated fields (or equivolent ones) in it as well. I'm not sure how we'd do a templated call, do you know a good example? I would worry that maintaining it separately that way would fragment updates to Infobox character or risk documentation being outdated, as the main one has far more attention and traffic. -- ferret (talk) 15:25, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
Well, basically, "infobox video game character" would itself invoke the infobox character template, but filling in the additional label fields with the VG-specific terms, and passing arguments to that. --Masem (t) 15:30, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
Something to add to this is that by this means, any changes made to Infobox Character (itself also based on a generic infobox template) will automatically propagate to Infobox Video Game Character, without us having to change anything. This is a Good Thing (TM). --Masem (t) 18:33, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
There are a lot of fields in Template:infobox character that fail the In-Universe test. I wouldn't have an issue with deprecating/deleting IVGC in the case those fields were removed, nor an issue with turning IVGC into a pass-through, but I would guess those fields in IC are a no-go. --Izno (talk) 17:39, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
That's not really something we can solve. IC is in use across 6000 articles by film, tv and novel projects. If it's in violation of policy somehow, that's really a separate issue. IVGC still strikes me as redundant, and many video game characters use IC besides. -- ferret (talk) 18:20, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
separate issue No, I'm saying that's a blocker to using anything but IVGC. It may need to be solved with different persons included, but for video games characters to use that one by default would require those changes IMO. --Izno (talk) 18:52, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
Removing in universe fields? Like I said, a lot of VG character articles are already using IC instead of IVGC. So do we basically have IVGC to limit the fields that other projects using IC have? -- ferret (talk) 19:09, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
I haven't looked into how or why the one started, but that's been its function since recent times that I've observed--we have regular requests for certain in-universe parameters (family members, jobs) on the IVGC talk page that all get shot down here but which have been the MO at IC for a while now... --Izno (talk) 19:24, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

ATTN ADMINS please be watching for vandals[edit]

For some reason, after the Game Awards, a lot of related articles in VG have been hit with a flood of vandals. We think it's from 4chan /v/ but the source doesn't matter. Block IPs, temporarily protect pages. If you are not an admin, please revert and report pages or IPs at WP:ANI#A Way Out (video game) Tommy Wiseau edits . --Masem (t) 05:49, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Footnotes for Early Access releases[edit]

We had a discussion last month (Link)about what we should do about early access releases, with regards to the infobox with a couple people (myself including) noting that our current policy of only including the "Official" release date is somewhat misleading to the readers. One proposal was to use footnotes for such releases for instance the Ark Survival Edition would state 2017* in the infobox where the footnote would reveal upon being rolled over that the game was released in Early Access in 2015. This would solve the main problem which arrose in the debate which was that putting early access dates would clutter the infobox. Thoughts? --Deathawk (talk) 00:25, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Note: I have changed the title of this section from "Fottnotes for Early Access releases=" to "Footnotes for Early Access releases". jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk • contribs) 01:11, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
It took me a second to understand what you said, and yes, footnotes would work. Originally, I would've said a tooltip, but it probably wouldn't do much. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk • contribs) 01:12, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

New Articles (27 November to 8 December)[edit]

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Salavat (talk) 06:00, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Talk:Sonic Adventure/GA3[edit]

Uh, can someone do something about this? A random IP just opened it with the phrase "DADDY SEN-PIE NOTICE ME." JOEBRO64 13:17, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Lol, people are weird. I'll just take over the review if you don't mind. :) Freikorp (talk) 13:21, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
Hmm, I initiated the review through the 'start review' link but it's not updating at the WP:GAN page as being under review. Clearly by making that edit the IP has screwed up how the coding or whatever is supposed to work, which I assume will create problems when I try to close the review as well. I'll still do the review but I think we'll need to get someone to fix that. Freikorp (talk) 13:51, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
@Freikorp: I can delete it so you can restart if you like. -- ferret (talk) 13:59, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
@Ferret: Yeah that sounds like a plan, cheers. Freikorp (talk) 23:02, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
Actually it looks like its working now so never mind. Thanks anyway. :) Freikorp (talk) 23:06, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Hi-Tec Software -- tried to add, but system does not work ??[edit]

Tried to add this request: "Hi-Tec Software Ltd: commercial UK games software publisher, active in late 1980s, early 1990s, on ZX Spectrum and other platforms. Known for licensed games based on Hanna-Barbera cartoon properties." The WMF Labs thing said it had been added but it does not appear in the list. Maybe someone can add it for me? Equinox 15:39, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

That is a request system. It does not make the articles but puts them in a queue for others to review. Your request is here. -- ferret (talk) 16:25, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, it didn't show up in the list of requested articles either: probably just a caching issue. Thanks. Equinox 23:11, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Tomb raider template[edit]

The Template:Tomb Raider has a link in the 'related' section to the Media disambiguation page. The other two links in this section, Lara Croft & Toby Gard, are obviously relevant but why is 'Media' here? And what should it be disambiguated to? Leschnei (talk) 18:09, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Somebody fixed it in this edit. Sergecross73 msg me 14:13, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

Need a source review for reliability and accuracy[edit]

Hi all. It's been a while since I've been around, but I do lurk around with some frequency. Over the last few days, I've been looking at doing expansion work on Sonic X-treme for whatever reason I'm not even sure it interests me again, but as I'm going through the references, I'm seeing something of concern. @Indrian: You may be a good consultant on this, if you're still around. A large part of the article right now leans on a source from Lost Levels, a website published by Frank Cifaldi, who was a journalist for 1Up.com. The article it leans on was not written by Cifaldi, but by a member of his staff, with interview quotes from Sega producer Mike Wallis and developer Christian Senn. In the GA review a couple of years ago, I suggested it was a reliable source because it was published by Frank Cifaldi, but I feel a little sketchy about it now in retrospect. It has a couple questions of accuracy - for instance, it places more emphasis on Christian Senn's inability to complete the game due to illness rather than Chris Coffin, who other sources pin down as the person whose illness caused the game not to be released. It also cites a visit to Sega from Shoichiro Irimajiri, when all other sources say it was Hayao Nakayama who came to visit. My question is this: though it's written by an established video game journalist, is Lost Levels reliable and accurate? Should it be removed and the article rewritten from other sources? As time allows, I may be willing to undertake this project. Thank you for your input. Red Phoenix let's talk... 00:47, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Perhaps ask Frank if he holds editorial oversight over the articles published there. I'm not familiar with who wrote the X-Treme article and what their credentials are, but if Frank has editorial oversight, that gives it more credibility. On a related note, I tried emailing Frank a month ago to see if he would make his magazine library available to wiki editor source requests (he has nearly every issue of every American game magazine). I never received a reply. TarkusABtalk 16:03, 11 December 2017 (UTC)