User talk:Emperor of Oz's New Clothes

Welcome![edit]

Hello, Emperor of Oz's New Clothes, and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages you might find helpful:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, please see our help pages, and if you can't find what you are looking for there, please feel free to ask me on my talk page or place {{Help me}} on this page and someone will drop by to help. Again, welcome! Rsk6400 (talk) 17:45, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Talk page format[edit]

Can you please read Help:Talk pages before making any further edits to Talk:Caucasian race? The move section is an absolute mess and impossible for the rest of us to follow. I realise that talk pages probably aren't very intuitive to a newcomer, but Wikipedia's editing software is a relic of a time when people were expected to read the manual before they did something. The same goes reading the instructions on how to propose a move before you propose a move, how to use a template before you use a template, etc... – Joe (talk) 11:17, 2 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Joe Roe: Can you please enumerate the people you speak for when stating Talk:Caucasian race is "impossible for the rest of us to follow"? This will help me work directly with people to create content which is easier to follow. If you have specific suggestions on how to improve, I find them much more helpful than general disparagement and condescension. -- Emperor of Oz's New Clothes (talk) 20:01, 2 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I am familiar with talk pages. Don't be confused by the extreme recency of my contributions. I have been using Wikipedia for two decades, and when intrigued I regularly review article edit histories and read talk pages. I did read the documentation on talk pages and user talk pages before I ever edited a talk page. I read all the documentation I could find on WP:RM#CM and Template:SM and related topics. Then I read the past 10 years of archived talk pages for Talk:Caucasian race. Then I spent around 10 hours creating a format for the discussion that would result from the proposal I was going to make. Then I made the proposal in the talk page. I understand you find it hard to follow, and I'm sorry. That was not my intention. -- Emperor of Oz's New Clothes (talk) 20:01, 2 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

So with all the above in mind, can you please not talk down to the newcomer? Thank you. WP:DNB -- Emperor of Oz's New Clothes (talk) 20:01, 2 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Continuation[edit]

Regarding this page:

Thank you for your input. Perhaps the {{uw-chat3}} would have been a better choice. Regardless, you are incorrect that "talk pages are the right place to voice opinions on topics, even ones that may ruffle feathers and may be unpopular." Please see WP:NOTFORUM. The article talk pages are for discussing improvements to the article, not one's opinion on the subject of the article. EvergreenFir (talk) 21:34, 9 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@EvergreenFir: I may have used poor phrasing. Correct, talk pages are not a place to have a discussion about the article's topic. They are a place to discuss improving the content of the article. It is absolutely necessary to voice opinions about the content of the article. Perhaps I should have said instead, 'I am under the impression that talk pages are the right place to voice opinions about the content of an article, even ones that may ruffle feathers and may be unpopular.' -- Emperor of Oz's New Clothes (talk) 22:56, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There is a fine line between voicing opinions to bring attention to issues in the articles and just kvetching about a topic. Even worse when done under the guise of improvement but with bad intentions (cf WP:SEALIONING). Regardless, those IP editor's comments were not constructive. EvergreenFir (talk) 01:26, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@EvergreenFir:not constructive ≠ disruptive. Beyond that, there was an opportunity to educate and encourage a new editor, and your actions turned it into a confirmation that Here any opinion that seems racist by the moderator is banned or branded false by definition.

I totally agree with EvergreenFir and also with this reply to you by another, very experienced editor. I've seen too many IPs trolling on race-related talk pages to see those comments as "an opportunity" for anything. --Rsk6400 (talk) 15:14, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Rsk6400: Please read above where Joe claimed to speak for the rest of us and his most recent reference to my hypothetical horde of upset white Americans. You support this condescension? His reply to me also completely dodged my questions about the article itself. There is no majority of reliable sources on the question of which idea gets top billing in the article. Regardless of who you think I might be or what I might be trying to accomplish, I have a voice and that voice has as much right to be heard as yours or any other editor here. The editors of Talk:Caucasian race have repeatedly silenced countless people who ask a legitimate question: Why is the article titled with my self-selected ethnicity telling me that I am obsolete? These people could learn that Caucasian is a racist term tied to a racist theory, and that they should demand their American government and American society stop using these racist terms. Slapping them in the face the moment they read the first sentence of that article will not lead to that outcome. They will infer that the people who maintain that article do not value their understanding or their humanity, and they would be right in my opinion.

Do you know so much that you're unwilling to learn more? Is your mind still empty enough to learn something new? Will you at least entertain the idea that my perspective has value?