Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Mascarene Parrot/archive1
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by Ian Rose 10:01, 22 September 2013 (UTC) [1].[reply]
Mascarene Parrot[edit]
Mascarene Parrot (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Toolbox |
---|
Every aspect of this species is complicated, but I have tried to show every viewpoint, including obscure historical ones. It was excellently copy edited today, so I feel it is quite good now, and I like the complexity of the bird's history, and hope others will find it interesting. I have another FAC co-nomination up, but as far as I understand this allows me to nominate one more article (this one). FunkMonk (talk) 14:39, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
A very interesting and well-researched article; I hope this one doesn't get lost on the FAC page!
- "The Mascarene Parrot was 35 cm (14 in) in length" Up to or around, surely?
- "descriptions based on stuffed specimens instead describe" Repetitious
- "A third stuffed specimen existed around the turn of the 18th century.[3]" Source mention anything else? Is it possible it's still around somewhere?
- "The Mascarene Parrot received the scientific name Psittacus mascarinus (abbreviated as "mascarin") by Swedish zoologist Carolus Linnaeus in 1771." it was named by, or it received a name from (I prefer the former)
- "This disagreement led some authors to use invalid combinations of the scientific names, such as Mascarinus obscurus and Coracopsis obscura. It may have been an African Grey Parrot (Psittacus erithacus) instead." All apparently unsourced?
- "Moluccan Eclectus Parrots" I read this (and I suspect most will!) as a species name, rather than a species name with an adjective.
- "with the coracopsinae (of African origin)" Surely, that should be a capital C?
- Same for psittaculinae.
- "found the Mascarene Parrot to be nested among the subspecies" Nothing wrong with it, but the pun did make me chuckle...
- "Hume has expressed surprise by these findings" He expressed surprise at the findings
- "He also points out that the time of divergence proposed for the Mascarene Parrot in the study is long before Réunion came into existence. This would indicate the parrot evolved elsewhere before colonising Réunion, but there is no fossil evidence found on other islands to support this." You've just mentioned this; you could summarise by saying something like "He also points out that there is no fossil evidence found on other islands to support the hypothesis that the species evolved elsewhere."
- "Such a transformation has also turned the sole specimen of Townsend's Dickcissel (Spiza townsendi) from grey to brown.[2]" A glance at the article suggests that this is a controversial species
- Yeah, but the colour transformation should be legit enough. The debate is just on whether it is a distinct species or just a colour morph. Clarify? FunkMonk (talk) 00:00, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- "and these errors have been repeated by subsequent artists" Are you not question-begging by calling them errors?
- "Forbes made his description from the Paris specimen" How about "based his description on the Paris specimen"?
- "That the Vienna specimen was partially albinistic may have been the result of a long period in captivity." How so?
- The source doesn't state it, but refers to another source which I guess explains this for birds in general. I imagine it would be original synthesis if I added such information here, as it does not address this bird specifically? FunkMonk (talk) 23:08, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- If the source refers to this as an example of something discussed in another source (and cites that source) then there would be no OR violation in explaining what the latter source says. Alternatively, if you think you're going off-topic, ignore me! J Milburn (talk) 19:59, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Ok, I was wondering about it too, I think it may have something to do with nutrition. I'll see if I can find the source. FunkMonk (talk) 22:58, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Found the citation, but doesn't help much. It appears to address the specimen after all, but it seems to have been during a talk at a convention: Schifter, H. (1994) Historical specimens of parrots in the bird collection of the Museum of Natural History, Vienna, Austria.In: III International Loro Parque Parrot Convention, Loro Parque 14th to 17th September 1994. Puerto de la Cruz-Tenerife-Spain, 34–48. FunkMonk (talk) 23:42, 19 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Ok, I was wondering about it too, I think it may have something to do with nutrition. I'll see if I can find the source. FunkMonk (talk) 22:58, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- If the source refers to this as an example of something discussed in another source (and cites that source) then there would be no OR violation in explaining what the latter source says. Alternatively, if you think you're going off-topic, ignore me! J Milburn (talk) 19:59, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- The source doesn't state it, but refers to another source which I guess explains this for birds in general. I imagine it would be original synthesis if I added such information here, as it does not address this bird specifically? FunkMonk (talk) 23:08, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- "Dubois mentioned that the Mascarene Parrot was not edible" This seems to contradict Feuilley's 1705 account?
Generally very strong- you have made the rather complicated history very readable. J Milburn (talk) 18:21, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Sorry for taking so long to get back to this, but I'm definitely happy with the article. I don't think there's anything wrong with leaning on one source- it's recent, and published in a respected journal by a respected academic. J Milburn (talk) 18:44, 9 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support Comments from Jim Interesting article, just a few niggles Jimfbleak - talk to me? 08:56, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I made this edit to the lead
- travelog—this is AE spelling
- Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle—capitalisation is wrong, all caps
- This name was first used by French zoologist and natural philosopher Mathurin Jacques Brisson in 1760, but was not intended as a binomial.—Binomial points to the maths term. The statement is incorrect anyway, it was a binomial, but did not refer to a system of classification as with the Linnean forms
- some Eclectus Parrots—"an Eclectus Parrot" or "the Eclectus parrots"
- The problem is that it was just some subspecies of that parrot that were included, not all subspecies of it are from the Moluccas. And to further complicate it, they were considered full species then. What am I allowed to explain, before it becames OR? FunkMonk (talk) 23:24, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- remaining bones inside with the subfossils,—inside is redundant, X-rays pointless if outside
- Psittaculinae parrot—parrots?
- Its plumage pattern was mostly atypical for psittaculines—for a psittaculine
- tail feathers and rest of the head—tail feathers aren't part of the head, you've become separated from the earlier sentence
- hand coloured—hyphen
- were likely based... others likely all became—AE use of "likely"
- Changed to probably throughout. What does likely mean in BE then? FunkMonk (talk) 23:17, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- In British English, it tends to be used intransitively, either with no following verb—it is likely that—or to be followed by an infinitive—were likely to be based— Jimfbleak - talk to me? 12:12, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Changed to probably throughout. What does likely mean in BE then? FunkMonk (talk) 23:17, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- probably went extinct prior to 1800... Réunion to go extinct.—"became/become" sound more natural to me, "go" sounds too directed (to me at least)
Comments Support from Cwmhiraeth.
- Reading through the article I am struck by how clear and straightforward the prose is. A few points however:-
- "The taxonomic relationship of this species has been subject to debate." - I would use the plural here.
- "It may have been an African Grey Parrot (Psittacus erithacus) instead." - It is not clear what "It" refers to here.
- "Subfossil parrot remains have since been excavated from grottos on Réunion." - Since what?
- "... they were more similar to those of the Mascarene Parrot, and subsequently referred to it. - Is "referred" a technical term meaning "considered to be" or something?
- "... Hoopooe Starling in the mid-19th century." - Too many "o"s here.
- That's all for the moment. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:47, 7 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for comments, made alterations, as for since, no date is mentioned, would later be better? FunkMonk (talk) 20:57, 7 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I am satisfied that the article reaches FA standard on prose and comprehensiveness and have changed my "Comments" to "Support" above. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 17:59, 9 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for comments, made alterations, as for since, no date is mentioned, would later be better? FunkMonk (talk) 20:57, 7 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments from Ceranthor
- General
- Dabs and reflinks check out.
- Apparently ref 10 changes domain, but I do not think that matters.
- Lots of unnecessary commas, but I am doing my best to fix them.
- References all seem reliable.
- Lead
- The exact placement is, as yet, unresolved. - Why as yet? It is redundant.
- Taxonomy
- A third stuffed specimen existed around the turn of the 18th century.[3] - What became of it?
- to "island hop" - Is this a quote? It sounds informal to me.
- Description
- The wing was 211 mm (8.3 in), the tail 144–152 mm (5.6–6 in), the culmen 32–36 mm (1.2–1.4 in), and the tarsus was 22–24 mm (0.8–1 in). - Why do use ellipsis and then use the verb "was" again? Keep it consistent.
Prose looks very strong. Unsure about a ref used 19 times, but I suppose it is acceptable. I will come back once my comments are resolved. ceranthor 15:37, 8 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support My comments have been addressed. ceranthor 20:04, 9 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment -- Looks to me that we're still awaiting image/source reviews. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 15:10, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, there were three supports in very quick succession. FunkMonk (talk) 15:34, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Image review - where was File:Hahn_Mascarinus.jpg first published? Nikkimaria (talk) 23:57, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- You mean country or publication? This is the original citation (will add it to the file): Hahn. C.W. (1834) 1834–41. Ornitologische Atlas oder naturgetreue Abbildung und Beschreibung der aussereuropäischen Vögel. Erste Abteilung: Papagaien. Nurnberg, C.H.Zeh'sche Buchhandlung, 54. FunkMonk (talk) 08:32, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Source review - I'll do this ... give me a day. Sasata (talk) 17:30, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- the IUCN citation should have the name of the author/contributor
- ref#3 should indicate (ed.) after the name Diamond; publisher location for this source?; ISBN hyphenation?
- journal article titles are not consistently in either title or sentence case
- many of the older Ibis issues are available at Archive.org; perhaps some of the citations here could link to the free full text directly
- same deal with Sclater 1857, and Wagler 1832; what is S.N. in this last citation?
- Mourer-Chauvire et al. 1999 should be formatted as cite book, or perhaps cite conference
- ensure subtitles (in journal article titles, following a colon) after consistently capitalized (or not)
- the Chere & Hume source uses a rather wide page range (65 pp); consider spliting this into short citations with more specific page #'s to ease reader verification
- "R. P. Prys-Jones, R. P." duplicated initials
- consider changing the old ISBN 10s to the recommended ISBN 13s (here's a handy converter)
- All source issues addressed, some have not been solved, waiting for instructions. FunkMonk (talk) 23:34, 19 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Ian Rose (talk) 13:25, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.