Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/The Hunger Games/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by GrahamColm 18:13, 20 September 2012 [1].

The Hunger Games[edit]

The Hunger Games (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Evanh2008 (talk|contribs) 00:53, 2 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating The Hunger Games for FA status because, after a series of thorough revisions earlier this year, I believe it now exceeds the Good article criteria and more than meets the Featured article criteria. Evanh2008 (talk|contribs) 00:53, 2 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by GabeMc.

References
  • I don't think IFC News should be italicized, ref [74].
  • Scholastic is not italicized in refs [7], [8], [13] and [38] but is italicized in refs [3] and [25].
  • Same with the School Library Journal, [6], [39] and [27].
  • I believe Christianity Today should be italicized, [17] - [20].
  • Same with Independent Tribune, [16]. ~ GabeMc (talk|contribs) 02:56, 2 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Done Thanks much, Gabe! Evanh2008 (talk|contribs) 03:45, 2 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
General
  • You need alt text for the infobox image.
  • Presumably, all the info cited in the lead is also cited in the body, per WP:CITELEAD, cites in the lead should be removed. ~ GabeMc (talk|contribs) 04:24, 2 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Also done. Thanks again! Evanh2008 (talk|contribs) 05:42, 2 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support pretty solid. TBrandley 20:11, 2 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - The article is well written, researched and it appears quite comprehensive (I havn't read the book). The lead accurately summarises a well structured article. Overall, its an excellent piece of writing that easily meets the FA criteria. ~ GabeMc (talk|contribs) 21:32, 2 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment There is a brief suggestion on the talk page that could be considered. Glimmer721 talk 01:58, 3 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed; right here. It's pretty much resolved, I think, though others may disagree. Evanh2008 (talk|contribs) 02:03, 3 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
All right. Looking over this quickly, Ref #10 needs a filled-out template, and 47 and 48 at least need publishers. Glimmer721 talk 02:10, 3 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Templified Ref 10 and added work parameters to 47 and 48. Thanks! Evanh2008 (talk|contribs) 02:19, 3 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • Right at the top, I think the dab link is enough. It holds the other two links which feature in the lead anyway.
  • No publisher name in the lead? And improve "novel by ... novelist"?
  • "The Hunger Games has been released in paperback and also as an audiobook and ebook." Not hardback? This sentence confused me. I suggest moving "hardcover" from the second sentence to here.
  • Inspiration and origins: rename to "Background/Inspiration/Origin and writing" since a lot of the info is about how she wrote it?
  • I don't think any of the second-level subsections are necessary, they give the appearance of an overly-segmented and stubby-looking text. Can Cover be a paragraph in Publication history too?
  • Film: I think you can (easily) expand the film adaption by copying stuff from The_Hunger_Games_(film)#Production. There's a lot of stuff relevant to the book there—how Lions Gate wooed Collins and how they managed to adapt the book to film will be of interest to anybody who has read the novel. Also, how the "script was extremely faithful" etc.
  • Parodies and game: are any of these notable enough to mention here? The parodies are sourced to Amazon (anybody can put up their books for sale there) and the game isn't even directly related to the book.

Apart from the film-adaptation expansion, these are just nitpicks; you've done an excellent job and I look forward to supporting soon.—indopug (talk) 14:18, 4 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I believe I've taken care of all these. Very helpful, so thank for your input! When you get a chance, I'd love to know what you think about the Film adaptation section. I'm pretty sure I picked a good selection of material to copy from the other article, but since you suggested it, I figured you may have some additional input now that it's been done. Thanks again! Evanh2008 (talk|contribs) 21:24, 4 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for being so accommodating to my suggestions! I'm almost ready to support, but want to do a final copy-edit first (in a couple of days). In the mean time, a few more suggestions (feel free to disagree):
  • The film stuff is great. I'd recommend cutting down the second para beginning: "20-year-old actress JL was selected to play KE. Although four years older than the character, Collins said..."
  • "The Hunger Games are an annual event..." sentence is long and unpunctuated.
  • "initial print of 200,000—twice doubled from the original 50,000" - confusing. What's the difference between "original" and "initial print"? Also, why not just "four times" for "twice doubled".
  • Reception: TIME and NYT's opinions carry more critical weight than the others; I think they should begin the section, and that TIME's review can be expanded.
  • The Battle Royale stuff becomes a little repetitive. I suggest removing Green and trimming Nishimura. And where is the question of "defend[ing] Battle Royale from plagiarism"? BR is the 'original', why should anyone have to defend it?
  • Religious themes:
  • Just curious, why do the references here feature quotes of the sources?
  • Don't think the last two sentences contribute anything to the paragraph, especially the Fox News one.—indopug (talk) 05:01, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think I've dealt with all of this, except for the TIME bit, which I intend to get around to tonight. I'm not sure why there were so many quotes in the refs (I didn't have much to do with writing that section), but I'm fairly certain they were unnecessary, so I removed them. Thanks for all your suggestions! I think the article is looking even better now. Evanh2008 (talk|contribs) 23:05, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Just updated the Time section with another quote. If you think it could use some more, let me know. Evanh2008 (talk|contribs) 04:45, 6 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Images appear unproblematic, captions are fine. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:23, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]


rating chart -- it should have one of those rating charts that you see on film and tv article. Waveclaira (talk) 23:36, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sure someone else can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm almost certain that that isn't standard procedure for novel articles. We don't have a template for it, anyway (I checked). Evanh2008 (talk|contribs) 00:11, 6 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Any such templates are optional--there's no "should" about it. Personally I think they're not very helpful when it comes to conveying critical consensus. WesleyDodds (talk) 06:59, 7 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's what I thought, and I agree completely. Thanks, Wesley! Evanh2008 (talk|contribs) 00:12, 8 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Final quibble
  • Shouldn't there be a discussion of the allusions/allegory of Reality TV in Themes?—indopug (talk) 07:23, 9 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Indeed there should be; I think we probably got most of the basic idea across in the Background section, but there definitely should be something on it there, too. I've added a bit on it, along with a new source. (I hope Entertainment Weekly counts as "high quality secondary"; if not, I can rethink that part.) Thanks for all your help! Evanh2008 (talk|contribs) 00:02, 10 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support Excellent work.—indopug (talk) 07:23, 9 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments. Pretty good read, minor nitpicks follow. Sasata (talk) 15:12, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • link reality television
  • "… and rights of production have been sold in 38 countries." Does a right of production mean filming rights?
  • perhaps channel surfing should be linked (non-Native English speakers might not know what this is, and, bizarrely, we have an article on it)
  • "… with Collins describing Katniss as a futuristic Theseus, and Roman gladiatorial games provided the framework." provided->providing(?)
  • "… with Katniss having lost her father at age 11, five years before the story begins." awkward noun+ing construction
  • "…an event in which the participants (or "tributes") must fight to the death in an outdoor arena controlled by the Capitol" is the event or the arena controlled by the Capitol? Perhaps the final four words aren't needed?
  • "Katniss's stylist, Cinna, is the only person at the Capitol with whom she feels a degree of empathy." With whom or for whom? If the former, what is the object of their collective empathy?
  • "In an interview with Collins, it was noted that the books …" Why the passive voice? How about "… she noted …"?
  • "Laura Miller of The New Yorker finds that the author's stated premise of the Games – … – to be unconvincing." Needs a grammar fix
  • perhaps link self-sacrifice
  • "in the story Peeta shows up "bearing a warm loaf of bread," and Katniss slowly comes "back to life."" I think the quoted parts could be paraphrased
  • "and rights to the novel had been sold in 38 territories." in the lead, this is 38 countries
  • "the book was released on paperback." on -> in
  • link allegorical
  • 33rd best book -> needs hyphenation
  • "20-year-old actress' shouldn't start a sentence with a number
  • fix the double fullstop in ref #4
  • Scholastic and Entertainment Weekely have duplicate links
Thanks for taking the time to look through the article! I've dealt with most of the issues you raised, but before I move forward on the others, I want to discuss them a little bit.
  • "… with Collins describing Katniss as a futuristic Theseus, and Roman gladiatorial games provided the framework." provided->providing(?)
Not exactly, since that wording would tie in the gladiatorial games with the myth of Theseus alongside Collins' assessment of the character, rather than it being a separate clause. "This, which is backed up by this, and also this," if that explanation makes any sense at all.
  • "… with Katniss having lost her father at age 11, five years before the story begins." awkward noun+ing construction
This may be a dumb question, but to which noun are you referring? I think (at least, my experience thus far with the English language has led me to believe) that the sentence is fine. It's entirely possible that I'm wrong, though. Regardless, I have tweaked the sentence a little so it flows better. If it still needs work, let me know.
The noun is Katniss (see this for more details). It's not a big deal, I just notice this construction more often now that Tony's written a page about it :) Sasata (talk) 16:15, 17 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "…an event in which the participants (or "tributes") must fight to the death in an outdoor arena controlled by the Capitol" is the event or the arena controlled by the Capitol? Perhaps the final four words aren't needed?
I have to disagree here, since the direct "control" which the Capitol exercises over the arena is a major component behind several plot points in the book. I think it's important to clarify in the summary that the obstacles and dangers aren't entirely natural, or just a result of the other tributes, and the present text seems to do that well enough.
  • "In an interview with Collins, it was noted that the books …" Why the passive voice? How about "… she noted …"?
Looking at the source, it seems to be the interviewer who made the observation. Inexplicably, the interviewer isn't named; I suppose I could rephrase it to "In an interview with Collins, the interviewer noted...", but perhaps that comes across as somewhat awkward? Any thoughts on that?
  • Since the quote is not from Collins herself, and the interviewer isn't named, I'd just rephrase the quote in my own words. (But I'm not fussed about it either way). Sasata (talk) 16:15, 17 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I definitely agree it could be worded more clearly. I'll see if I can fix it here in a little bit. Thanks for your help! Evanh2008 (talk|contribs) 21:25, 19 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Scholastic and Entertainment Weekely have duplicate links
I've looked and looked and I can't find these. Would you mind pointing them out for me?
I just removed them myself. I use the duplicate link checker for this (a very handy tool). Sasata (talk) 16:15, 17 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for all your comments! Evanh2008 (talk|contribs) 03:04, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I think the article is well written and complies with the FA criteria. Sasata (talk) 16:15, 17 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Spotchecks

  • Article: The novel deals with the struggle for self-preservation that the people of Panem face in their districts and the Hunger Games in which they must participate.[6]
  • Source: I can't see this information in the source. Reference 1. would be better where it says," The Hunger Games is set in a dystopian North America (called Panem) in which 12 districts must each send a boy and girl between the ages of 12 and 18 to compete in televised mortal combat--reality TV at its deadliest."
  • Article: After writing the novel, Collins signed a six-figure deal for three books with Scholastic in 2006. First published as a hardcover in the United States on September 14, 2008, The Hunger Games had a first printing of 50,000 copies, which was bumped up twice to 200,000 copies.[1]
  • Source: Scholastic acquired the trilogy in a six-figure deal via agent Rosemary Stimola in 2006..Although the book's 200,000-copy first printing (upped twice from an original 50,000 copies) is comparatively modest (the Meyer and Paolini titles have first printings of 3.2 and 2.5 million, respectively), the October title from Scholastic Press has been drawing early raves, particularly online, where commentary has lit up blogs and listservs.
  • Article: The Hunger Games received many awards and honors. It was named one of Publishers Weekly's "Best Books of the Year" in 2008 [41]
  • Source: Subscription required
  • Article: King noted that the reality TV "badlands" were similar to Battle Royale, as well as his own The Running Man and The Long Walk.[30]
  • Source: Also, readers of Battle Royale (by Koushun Takami), The Running Man, or The Long Walk (those latter two by some guy named Bachman) will quickly realize they have visited these TV badlands before.
  • Article: School Library Journal also praised the audiobook, stating that "McCormick ably voices the action-packed sequences and Katniss's every fear and strength shines through, along with her doomed growing attraction to one of her fellow Tributes."[25]
  • Source: Collins creates a fascinating world and Katniss is a believably flawed and interesting character. Carolyn McCormick ably voices the action-packed sequences and Katniss's every fear and strength shines through, along with her doomed growing attraction to one of her fellow Tributes. This engrossing audiobook belongs in all public and school libraries.—Charli Osborne, Oxford Public Library, MI
  • Article: The novel has also been controversial with parents;[39]
  • Source: New Hampshire Parent Challenges 'The Hunger Games'
  • No major issues, the nominator might want to address the minor issue with reference 6. Graham Colm (talk) 13:36, 18 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, Graham. I believe it's fixed now. Evanh2008 (talk|contribs) 21:25, 19 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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