Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/2009 College Football All-America Team/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 08:14, 30 June 2010 [1].

2009 College Football All-America Team[edit]

2009 College Football All-America Team (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 03:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because this is among the finest that WP has to offer in terms of All-America Teams. TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 03:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Mm40 (talk). Some quick points:

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 20:08, 13 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comments -
  • Why is there a long list of players named All-Americans after the main table? If readers want to see who was honored at a certain position, they can use the table sort functionality to do so.
    • What about players who were honored at multiple positions. It would not be apparent which lists recognized them for which positions. Maybe instead of having checks in the table cells, I should have position. What do you think?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:33, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • Sounds like a good plan to me. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 20:08, 13 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        • O.K.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:43, 13 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
          • Only other thing I see is that there is one remaining stray check mark for Brian Price. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 20:09, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
            • Missed that one. Hey do you have any thoughts on the notes column as discussed above.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
              • Of the four options, I like the idea of having the awards mentioned in the column the best, as it has a high level of relevance to such a list and there are enough awards to make it worthwhile. My only concern is whether that would make the table too wide; there are many more columns here than in the example lists. You'll have to experiment with it in preview mode to see how it looks. If that is problematic, I prefer option 1 to 2 since that has more to do with the players' college careers. If none of the options work well, the column should be removed since it would only be taking up space needlessly. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:14, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(undent) Good. A couple of the rows are long, but that can't really be helped. Awards should be cited, though. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 20:07, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • refs done.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:23, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • As a general comment, a seven-paragraph lead is one of the longest that I've encountered at FLC, and in my opinion is stretching things somewhat (a typical lead size for a list is three or four paragraphs). Could some of this be moved to a short body section? The last three paragraphs appear well-suited for a body section on the 2009 honorees. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 20:17, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – After the resolution of the many comments above, I feel this has now reached FL-quality. A couple of reference formatting issues were left, but I polished them off myself to get this process moving. The one remaining issue I just noticed is that there is a small blank column between the first and second Academic All-America teams, but I have a feeling that is related to the request below, and will be taken care of when a plan is worked out. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 01:37, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved issue by nominator, TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 12:38, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
*Help request Can someone help me add first team and second team labels to the table in the Academic All-American section while retaining current sortability.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:10, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • The best way to do it would probably be to superscript the numbers, noting in a key that 1 is for first-team all-american, 2 for second, etc. That should keep everything fine sorting-wise. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 00:28, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment When the Consensus All-American list is updated on the NCAA page (last years list), how should that be incorporated here?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:43, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • I see two feasible options. The first is to add a column for the Consensus All-Americans, using the NCAA website as the source. However, this might make the table excessively wide; it's pushing towards the right edge of my widescreen monitor as is. With that in mind I would suggest highlighting the Consensus All-Americans with a color and symbol; the NCAA link can be incorporated as a general reference. If this is done, just make sure that the key is updated to show what the color and symbol mean. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 01:17, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 14:53, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  • I think the first two paras can be reversed, it's best to know a general understanding of what this team is before we get into specifics.
  • Don't think you need to link "athlete"
  • "players of a specific season for each team position" reads poorly for me.
  • In fact, I'd move the info in the first para to the third para.
  • "that were nationwide in scope" is "in scope" necessary?
  • Last para and first para of lead kind of contradict. The first para says that lots of publications vote, the last says only a few do.
    • This page presents 12 All-American lists as encyclopedic content. However, the NCAA only recognizes 5 lists toward determining consensus All-American. The list of recognized selectors has changed over the years. Admittedly, it is a bit arbitrary to include 12 lists here, but that is an artifact of these annual lists. I.E., that is how the lists have been produced for several years. I did not feel I would be improving the page by imposing the NCAA recognition as a mandatory requirement for inclusion.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:00, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Honorees statistics" is that possessive? So should it be "Honorees' statistics"?
  • "exibited" typo.
  • "2nd team"->second team.
  • Why the grey vertical separation lines in the key?
  • Academic AA image is odd, it creates a huge whitespace above the table.
  • Blanks and incomplete lines in the Academic AA table.
  • There are two columns of "Name" and "School" but this is not explained anywhere.

The Rambling Man (talk) 18:07, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Now concerned over the vast number of red links in the second table... The Rambling Man (talk) 14:53, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • I could nolink them or we could wait a year or two since some many of these guys are underclassmen who may become notable in the next few years.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:02, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • Well the strategy I would expect is that we link those that are notable now, whether they have an article or not, and nolink the rest. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:45, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        • My thinking would be that this might be O.K., for the 2nd table, but the redlinks should remain for the first table I think. The two redlinks in the main table are a sophomore and a freshman. These guys are likely surefire notable people. I am going to spend a day or two looking more in depth at who the guys are in table to before agreeing to nolink them.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 12:43, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Wizardman Operation Big Bear 15:20, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
*Comment: Aside from TRM's concerns above, I have one question: What makes the following reliable sources?

Wizardman Operation Big Bear 02:26, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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