Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of awards and nominations received by Santana/archive3

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:25, 29 February 2020 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of awards and nominations received by Santana[edit]

List of awards and nominations received by Santana (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): CHICHI7YT (talk) 02:32, 1 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this article for featured list because I have made the list better than how it previously was when it was nominated for FL in 2013. CHICHI7YT (talk) 02:32, 1 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment - the "lots of little tables" format has been deprecated for quite some time. The current standard is to have all awards in one table, like the recently-promoted List of awards and nominations received by Kylie Minogue -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:30, 2 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – There needs to be more distinction between Santana the band and Santana the individual. Many of the awards are for Carlos Santana, particularly recognizing his contributions as a Latino/Mexican-American. Santana the band was/is a multi-ethnic/multi-racial American rock band. Although there is some overlap, the band is more recognized for its broader musical accomplishments than its "social engagement". There are many dead links, so it is difficult to assess what the sources are saying. This list may have benefited from a current peer review to address this and several MOS/format issues, including citation consistency. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:34, 4 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Perhaps a list detailing Carlos Santana's awards and nominations could be created instead of his accolades being detailed on this article, since the article is supposed to be about the band Santana, not Carlos Santana. Also, could you elaborate more on the "dead links" issue? Chrisnait (talk) 16:57, 4 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Nevermind. I finished fixing dead links in citations by adding archived versions of the links or finding other sources. Chrisnait (talk) 18:03, 4 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Maybe take this up on the talk pages, but the awards received solely in Carlos Santana's name could be moved to his WP article, replacing the Carlos Santana#Awards and nominations section, which currently includes Santana band Grammies. That would free up this list for Santana band-only awards (probably too many to move to the band article). —Ojorojo (talk) 18:21, 4 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think that is a good idea, but on which talk page should that idea be brought up? Chrisnait (talk) 18:50, 4 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I added a note on Talk:Carlos Santana about the awards and nominations issue. When a consensus has been reached, I'll move Carlos Santana-only awards to his WP article. Chrisnait (talk) 19:11, 4 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I finished moving the Carlos Santana-only awards to his WP page. I think a different picture be used in the Infobox, since again, the list is for the band Santana, not Carlos Santana. Chrisnait (talk) 21:25, 4 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - I don't know if it's an issue with my browser, but (for me at least) the sort functionality doesn't work on any of the columns.....? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 21:53, 4 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm having the same problem, although it seemed to work before. Also "style="text-align:center;" doesn't seem to be working on several entries (couldn't this be added once at the top after "class="wikitable sortable plainrowheaders"?). I don't see the immediate cause – maybe ask an expert. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:00, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Minogue list and this prior version works for me,[2] but the latest doesn't.[3] —Ojorojo (talk) 17:25, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Further comments on sorting: anything which starts with a " should sort as if the " isn't there. And anything that starts with "the" should sort on the next word -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:58, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for the comment. Is there anything else in the article I need to change? Chrisnait (talk) 22:10, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments
    • The sorting in the recipient column still needs fixing as per my comment above
    • Image caption should be "Carlos Santana live in Barcelona, 1984"
    • In the lead you mention that the band has won numerous awards twice in consecutive sentences
Santana is a Latin-influenced rock band, formed in 1967 in San Francisco by its one constant member, Carlos Santana. Since its inception, the band has won numerous awards, including ten Grammy Awards and three Latin Grammy Awards, largely owed to 1999's Supernatural and its subsequent singles, especially "Maria Maria" and "Smooth". They were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and Santana's works entered the Grammy Hall of Fame and Latin Grammy Hall of Fame.
The band released their self-titled debut award in 1969, but didn't earn a nomination until 1973, when their fourth album Caravanserai (1972) was nominated for the Grammy Award for Best Pop Instrumental Performance with Vocal Coloring. In 2000, the band's album Supernatural was the subject of nine Grammy Awards, including the award for Album of the Year, tying the record held by Michael Jackson for the most number of awards in a single night.
Santana has sold more than 100 million records to date. The band's best-selling album to date is Supernatural, which sold over 27 million copies worldwide. According to the British fact book Guinness Book of World Records, Supernatural is the best-selling album of all time by a Latin artist. Chrisnait (talk) 21:39, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The albums Shaman and Supernatural have sold a combined total of 30 million" - is there any need for this? In the very next sentence you mention that Supernatural sold over 27 million, so that means Shaman sold less than 3 million, which is fairly unremarkable, so there seems little reason to mention it here, especially as it doesn't appear anywhere in the table.
  • The lead seems very short, at less than 900 characters (potentially even fewer based on my comments above) - surely there must be a but more to say?
  • No reason to put line breaks between refs when two appear in the same cell of the table
  • "First band with over 5 million record sales worldwide" - not accurate at all. According to the source it was for CBS acts only (needs to be made clearer) and it was for 5 million sales outside the US (not worldwide). Currently it suggests that Santana were the first band in the world to sell 5 million records, which obviously isn't correct (I suspect by 1977 that the Beatles had sold a few more than that ;-))
  • You have changed this, but it still says "worldwide", which is wrong -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 19:54, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hope this helps -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:57, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • It does. Also, should the image in the Infobox be changed to a picture of the band, since the list is supposed to be about accolades earned by Santana, not Carlos Santana. Chrisnait (talk) 16:38, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Additionally, isn't the sorting in the recipient column not working the way it should because of the song titles that start with "?
        • You will need to use a {{sort}} template to make them sort correctly -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 19:53, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Gypsy/Grajonca", "Every Now and Then", "El Farol", "The Calling", and "Love of My Life" are redirects to albums that contain very little info about about the songs and linking them is not helpful. Using Template:Sort may help with sort problems and a band photo would be better. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:03, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm trying to fix the sorting issue in the recipient column right now. I tried to use the {{sort}} template for that column, but it puts brackets in front of and at the end on each row when I preview it (i.e. [["Smooth" (with Rob Thomas)]]) How do I fix this? Chrisnait (talk) 20:44, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I did a quick test and it seemed to work, but double check before re-adding it. —Ojorojo (talk) 21:46, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments - definitely looking a lot better now, however the lead still states that the band has won numerous awards twice in consecutive sentences. Also, at only 800 characters, the lead is really really short (and will be even shorter if you take out one of the two references to numerous awards). Surely there must be a bit more that can be said? The group won eight Grammys in one year, for a host of different recordings - could you expand on that?
    • Also, is it even true that the band have won "numerous" awards? A total of 24 doesn't actually seem that many over a 50 year career, and is only half the number apparently won by Billy Ray Cyrus, of all people....... --ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:19, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • I expanded the lead section a little bit. How is it now? Chrisnait (talk) 16:39, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • This would be my suggestion for the lead:
Santana is a Latin-influenced rock band, formed in 1967 in San Francisco by singer/guitarist Carlos Santana, who has been the band's one constant member throughout its career. The band has won a number of awards, including ten Grammy Awards and three Latin Grammy Awards, largely recognising 1999's album Supernatural and the single "Smooth". The band was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1998, and Santana's works have entered the Grammy Hall of Fame and Latin Grammy Hall of Fame.
The band released its self-titled debut album in 1969. In 1973 Santana received its first nomination for a major award when its fourth album Caravanserai was nominated for the Grammy Award for Best Pop Instrumental Performance with Vocal Coloring. The band was nominated for further Grammys in 1993 and 1996. In 2000, following the success of the previous year's album Supernatural, the band was nominated for nine Grammys and won eight, tying the record held by Michael Jackson for the highest number of awards in a single night. The album won the awards for Album of the Year and Rock Album of the Year and the single "Smooth" received the Grammys for Record of the Year and Best Pop Collaboration with Vocals. Four other songs from the album also won Grammys. In the same year, the band received three awards at the Latin Grammys, including Record of the Year.
Santana has sold more than 100 million records to date. The band's best-selling album to date is Supernatural, which has sold over 27 million copies worldwide. According to the Guinness Book of World Records, Supernatural is the best-selling album of all time by a Latin artist.
  • It does! I'll add that lead section soon. Chrisnait (talk) 16:33, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I did a test for the ref formats MOS, consistency, etc. You may want to double check before re-adding (a couple still need to be fixed). —Ojorojo (talk) 19:57, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could you give an example of what needs to be fixed? Chrisnait (talk) 21:09, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I thought it was easier to demonstrate it on a test rather than trying to list. The automatically generated efn [a] and "References" in the infobox seem odd; usually they should appear at the bottom with the others, but I don't see an easy way to override this. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:01, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The efn note and the References section comes with the Infobox, so if it seems odd to you, you should discuss that on Template talk:Infobox awards list. Also, are your tests supposed to show how a certain issue or two of the article looks like when it's fixed? Chrisnait (talk) 16:51, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is there anything else I need to fix? Chrisnait (talk) 15:04, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • My comment about the infobox was just an observation, but as you suggested, have brought it up on the template talk page. The rest were numerous small fixes, such as the Grammy link to Carlos rather than the band, the Brit source didn't show the nomination, etc. Generally, publishers are not normally used for periodicals and are not used for the name of a work or website (see the Template documentations). But it looks like these have been fixed now. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:08, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • But is the article still not ready for FL yet? Chrisnait (talk) 16:58, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:28, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support My concerns have been addressed. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:16, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • So does that mean that the article is getting promoted? Chrisnait (talk) 16:30, 15 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • It will be promoted as and when the FL director or one of his delegates feels it is ready to be promoted. It normally takes more than two supports. It also still needs a source review -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 21:19, 15 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • I didn't know. Thank you for telling me. Chrisnait (talk) 22:48, 15 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 08:06, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • The Santana article says "is an American rock band" while this article says " Latin-influenced rock band", perhaps some consistency across the articles would be a good thing?
  • "who has been the band's one" repeat of "band" in the same sentence, probably not really needed, could just go with "who has been the one constant.."

"in 1969. In 1973" repetitive.

  • "in 1993 and 1996.[2][3] In 2000" ditto.
  • "the highest number of awards " -> "the most awards"
  • "in a single night" I guess you really mean "at a single Grammy ceremony"?
  • Supernatural (Santana album) article seems to have a more up to date figure for sales (more than 30 million)...
  • My usual pet problem with these lists, what makes the non-notable awards such as Amigo suitable for inclusion here? They have no articles on en.wiki so why are they considered notable enough to form part of this list?
    • You're right. I removed the non-notable awards on the page. Chrisnait (talk) 00:55, 15 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Category" is not always a "category", so this needs a better title.
  • Surely songs which win actually Grammys are notable in their own right, e.g. "El Farol"?
  • Were the VH1 Awards (which don't appear to have their own article under that title, so what makes it notable?) actually the My VH1 Music Awards?
    • I had a look at the source and it called the awards the My VH1 Music Awards. Whoops! Chrisnait (talk) 00:55, 15 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I seem to count 27 wins in the table vs 24 in the infobox. It's confused by the "inducted" which are classed as "win" (green) in the table but not in the infobox. An oddity.
    • I don't really think inductions and world records count as rewards. I removed those specific sections. Chrisnait (talk) 00:55, 15 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Recipient(s) and nominee(s) - really should be Recipient(s)/nominee(s) because in no case are both listed.

That's it for a first pass. I am mandated (for whatever reason) to note that this review will be submitted to the WikiCup. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 11:26, 14 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Why is the review being submitted to the WikiCup? Chrisnait (talk) 00:55, 15 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
People in the WikiCup can win points by making suitably decent reviews of GANs, FLCs, FACs etc, but have to state that in the review. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 13:14, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for telling me. Chrisnait (talk) 15:35, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Do you think your concerns have been addressed? Chrisnait (talk) 17:15, 19 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Surely the "pending" should count as nominations? That's the problem with not having wins included in the nominations count... The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 17:29, 19 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I added pending awards to the infobox. Chrisnait (talk) 20:33, 19 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment @Chrisnait: Sorry for being a month late. I just wanted to let you know that there are several awards and nominations missing for the Santanta (the band). I'll list them for you.
    • 2000 Billboard Music Awards (Archive) Santana didn't win any of them.
    • Supernatural won Lo Nuestro Award for Pop Album of the Year in 2000 (copy this reference: "Lo Nuestro – Historia". Univision (in Spanish). Univision Communications. Archived from the original on June 26, 2015. Retrieved March 8, 2014.)
    • Two nominations at the 2014 Latin Grammy Awards Source
    • Two nominations for Africa Speaks at the 2019 Latin American Music Awards Source
    • Three pending nominations at the 2020 Billboard Latin Music Awards: Source

Hope these help! Erick (talk) 17:43, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I will add the awards soon. Chrisnait (talk) 23:55, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Chrisnait (talk) 01:34, 18 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Still missing the 2020 Billboard Latin Music nominations. Use the {{pending}} template since the awards don't air till April. Santana also received several nominations at the 2015 Billboard Latin Music Awards winning two of them. (Source for nominations and Source for wins) Just add the Billboard Latin Music Award accolades and I gladly support this list! EDIT: A quickie, the wikilink to Africa Speaks leads to a movie with the same name, not their album. Erick (talk) 03:38, 18 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I added the awards Erick. Chrisnait (talk) 14:30, 18 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Great! I now support this list! Good work! Erick (talk) 14:36, 18 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (Talk) 01:03, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comments –
  • Ref 20 has all caps in the title that should be removed.
  • Of the books in the bibliography, only the last one is used as a source. There's really no reason to include the other books if they aren't utilized for any citations.
    • I removed the section and I used the {{cite book}} for the last one as a citation. Chrisnait (talk) 00:22, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • As a general note, this edit capped a bunch of reviewers' commentary. Typically, the nominator should wait for the reviewer to cap or strike comments, so that we avoid situations where reviewers do not consider their comments fully resolved or (as is the case here) declarations of support are hidden from view, which makes assessing consensus much harder. Giants2008 (Talk) 00:12, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Source review – Having taken a closer look at the sourcing since my initial comments, I can say that the reliability and formatting of the references both look fine, and the link-checker tool shows no issues. I'd say that this source review is a pass. Giants2008 (Talk) 21:16, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Promoting, didn't find anything else when I looked it over. --PresN 02:37, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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