Wikipedia:Peer review/List of The Bellflower Bunnies episodes/archive1

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List of The Bellflower Bunnies episodes

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says Mistletoe Bellflower (to quote an actual line). And I hope it is--one of the most unexpected labours of love I have ever pursued in my WP career.

By the way, I am a little ashamed to find that, when it comes to TV toon lists, it's all anime, action, and Simpsons. Till now, no one has ever taken the opportunity to manage one from a children's Western world franchise. In this case, a French/Canadian co-production whose existence almost no one in North America knows of.

The way I've been at it for the past Easter weekend, it's been really hard--and I've worked really hard. So many of the episode summaries are either in French, the show's original language, or in German (from the descriptions and stills at KI.KA's list). Those, and Google's Translator service, give me clues as to what's in each episode.

If some fan from Europe or Quebec can help me correct (and improve) the episode descriptions, I'll be glad to assist.

With this list, I've (un)officially set a record for reference count on any page I've done (or started): a whopping 97, including 2 notes!

How well have I done so far? I'm looking forward to suggestions, and FL candidacy come one or two weeks.

Appropriately enough, have a happy (belated) Easter from Beechwood Grove! Thanks, Slgrandson (How's my egg-throwing coleslaw?) 16:48, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Laser brain[edit]

I will preface this review by saying that I've never reviewed a "list" before, so I am recently acquainted with the featured list criteria. I used that as the basis of my review since you said you'd like to try making this a featured list. By and large, the list seems to meet the criteria well. I have a few minor questions/concerns:

Comments from The Rambling Man (talk · contribs)

Hello Slgrandson, I'm pleased to review your article...

That's about all I have right now. Good luck with it and please let me know when you push for FLC. All the best, The Rambling Man (talk) 08:03, 27 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Collectonian[edit]

A few quick remarks (and please remember NOT to reply in the middle of others comments as you did above :P):

  1. A TV season box is unnecessary and clutters the page. Remove and just put in the image with a caption. Incorporate relevant sourced information into the lead instead.
  2. There seem to be several statements in the lead that should be sourced in their sections rather than the lead.
  3. Either the second or third paragraph should be merged into the first. No need to have separate.
  4. All German airdates should go. The only airdates that should be included are the original (France) and the first English airdates. Foreign language airdates should not be included in the tables and mentioned only briefly, at best.
  5. Episode summaries do not need any citations at all, and those should all be removed. It is just bloating the reference section and tables, and gives a false impression of references.
  6. Date formats in the table should either be in the full American format or the full International, re: March 29, 2008 or 29 March 2008.
  7. Is there a source for tying specific episodes to specific books?
  8. The episode break ups seem unnecessary and somewhat arbitrary. I'd recommend combining some of those tables and addressing those issues in the prose.
  9. DVD releases should be broken up by Region not Country, and there is no need for episode listings. They should include volume name and release date.
  10. The three notes seem to be things that could/should be covered in the prose, not as a footnote. # Almost all of the ELs are completely unnecessary and should be removed. For the first link, the French should go at the end not the front of the link.

Collectonian (talk) 01:03, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

All of them addressed; as for the English versions, I have not been aware of their broadcast other than a brief run of the show on the Al-Jazeera Children's Channel early this year. As we speak, it's not on their schedule... --Slgrandson (How's my egg-throwing coleslaw?) 21:59, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from User:Matthewedwards[edit]

  • I would change "This is a list of episodes in the French/Canadian animated series, The Bellflower Bunnies. The show debuted..." to "This is a list of episodes of The Bellflower Bunnies. The Bellflower Bunnies is a French/Canadian animated series which debuted..."
  • "before Eric Berthier assumed that role" → "the role"
  • Refs 7 and 8 need to go after punctuation
  • I don't like the link to the French wikipedia article. Not many English Wikipedians will be able to read it. It's probably better to go to Wikipedia:Translation/*/Lang/fr and put in a request
  • "France's version of Playhouse Disney" → "France's localised Playhouse Disney"
  • Be more specific with CBC/Radio Canada by changing to CBC Television. A casual reader will think it was broadcast over the radio.
  • Move the Canadian channel above Germany, as it's a Canadian co-production
  • A German airdate is interesting, but as it's a Canadian co-production, surely Canadian airdates would be better?
  • I think Zinnia's moral in the DVD section is Trivial
  • Episode summaries are covered by WP:PLOT and don't actually need to be referenced
  • I'm not convinced that the DVD releases should be covered in an episode list.

That's all for now, real life calls. Contact me if you want a re-review or have any questions. -- ṃ•α•Ł•ṭ•ʰ•Ə•Щ• @ 01:21, 30 March, 2008

There's an edit conflict with Collectionian's review above, so apologies if anything is repeated. -- ṃ•α•Ł•ṭ•ʰ•Ə•Щ• @ 01:21, 30 March, 2008

More

  • Further to my comment about DVD releases, I noticed you said you'd like to take it to FLC, and although I doubt it would be automatically opposed because of its inclusion, there is currently no episode list with DVD releases (that I'm aware of). They usually appear in a List of The Bellflower Bunnies DVD releases type article, although some TV series are migrating them to individual season pages, such as One Tree Hill, Smallville, Degrassi, and it looks likely to happen with Lost, too.
  • I think clarification is needed on the French/Canadian thing. It could be interpreted as being either French Canadian or a joint venture between the French and the Canadians.
  • Lastly, for now at least, why is the Québécois flag being used in the infobox, and not the Canadian flag?

-- ṃ•α•Ł•ṭ•ʰ•Ə•Щ• @ 14:11, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree on the DVD releases: List of Meerkat Manor episodes and List of Trinity Blood episodes are fairly recent FLs with DVD releases properly included. I would, however, recommend they be cleaned up as noted above. Indeed, separate DVD releases as you suggested usually end up in AfD and are deleted or merged back to the main article or the episode list. They are not notable for standalone articles. Collectonian (talk) 17:06, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You make a good point -- ṃ•α•Ł•ṭ•ʰ•Ə•Щ• @ 22:22, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
All addressed; the DVD info has been cleaned up, and TFOU TV (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) has been requested. The Canadian air dates will need some digging up; has that country got an equivalent of France's Inathèque? --Slgrandson (How's my egg-throwing coleslaw?) 21:59, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
What is it? -- ṃ•α•Ł•ṭ•ʰ•Ə•Щ• @ 22:22, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
As in, a local (Canadian) database of air dates, broadcast information and the like. --Slgrandson (How's my egg-throwing coleslaw?) 22:41, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from PeterSymonds (talk · contribs)[edit]

  • Ditto Matthew on the lead. The emboldened part should really contain the whole/most important part of the title (which is the Bellflower Bunnies bit).
  • The lead is made up of five very short paragraphs. Generally you should keep to four paragraphs maximum, so some could be combined.
  • I think CET should be written out in full in the first instance. It's no big deal, and I wouldn't mind if you didn't change this.
  • Reference needed for the composers.
  • "These premiere stories have been the most widely distributed worldwide.." Ooh, big unreferenced statement.
  • I would make the ISBN in the main text a footnote in its own right, i.e. cite the whole book and use it as a reference.
  • "As yet, they haven't appeared on DVD anywhere". It's a bit unrelated to the preceding line, and seems out of place. I'd just remove it.
  • I'd wikilink KI.KA. Also, it's capitalised in the main article, so I suggest you capitalise it here for consistency.
  • "No air dates for them have been supplied." I'd change to "The air dates for these episodes have not currently been supplied" or something.
  • For the Foreign language names, maybe an English translation could be provided, as it is the English Wikipedia.
  • ""Room to Move" and "Carnival," MOS. Comma should be after the quotation as the quotation is not the main part of the sentence.
  • ""Balloonatic Bunnies" and "Slide On." Same thing.
  • "On April 12, 2005, the Direct Source company released another four DVDs of the show..." Just four? :) I think you should say "DVD titles".
  • "Aunt Zinnia teaches a moral to audiences on the top of each front cover." Who's Aunt Zinnia? Also, I'd reference that.
  • References look good. Worried about 107 though. Apart from the fact that it has characters that aren't supported in all web browsers, the link looks like it goes to a shop. This should be avoided per WP:DIRECTORY.

Otherwise, great effort! Sorry if I've duplicated any comments; I skimmed through the others quite quickly. Any further help let me know. Best, PeterSymonds | talk 07:02, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Concerns addressed; ref count now down to 64, still a personal record of mine. Beyond the U.S. DVD titles, it'll be somehow tough getting the rest of the English names. --Slgrandson (How's my egg-throwing coleslaw?) 21:59, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Ruhrfisch (talk · contribs)[edit]

As requested, I have read the article and am making some comments here. The first two are those I left on your talk page:

  • Since you refer to episodes by their title in at least three languages (English, French, and German), I would also always give the Episode number when referring to them in DVDs, etc.
  • It was not clear to me what the basis of the official episode number is (vs. aired sequence).
  • I am also uncertain as to where much of the information in the tables comes from - for example, where are the plot summaries from? They are not cited. Often a table will have the footnote or two for a column in the header, if one or two sources provide all that column's information.
  • I agree on rewriting the first sentence with two of the reviewers above.
  • Since the preceding sentence uses "episodes", I would also use that instead of "stories" in As of April 2008, only twelve of these stories have been released in six separate volumes.
  • Some of the plot summaries might need to be cleaned up. For example, beignet is a word in English, but seems to be translated as apple donuts? Is this what the English episode calls what they cook (in which case it is fine) or is this a self-translation? Without the source, I can't check. Or "L'ogre Kazoar" would seem to imply the monster is an "ogre", not a "highway monster". Or "Ernest Babine, a famous chemist, asks Poppy to integrate his junior scholars." Is this civil rights style integration or calculus?

More later, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 19:00, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • A few final comments - here are more plot summaries that need to be polished. Violette and Periwinkle come to the rescue of a polecat family whose spring has deliberately dried up. How does a spring dry up deliberately? A meteorite strikes Beechwood Grove, then causes problems for the community after it becomes stolen. I would write "is stolen". Reluctant of his house duties, Mistletoe ... is awkward. Bramble takes his family to the seaside, where the children take some sailing lessons and help a friend. Later on, however, their day is ruined when Dandelion gets caught in a smugglers' trap.
  • I still do not understand how you can have plot summaries of German episodes that have not yet aired (since the episodes are the source).

Hope this helps, sounds like an intriguing series Ruhrfisch ><>°° 20:13, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As a side note, plot summaries do not need to be cited. The episodes are the source, same as with movies and series plot summaries. Collectonian (talk) 19:09, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
OK, thanks, I (obviously) did not know this and appreciate your pointing it out. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 19:53, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've cleaned up some of the summaries as you've asked, and reordered the sequence per official TF1 dates. By the way, the official order can be found at this page. Sorry for the remainder in German, but please understand that they don't have French translations yet. --Slgrandson (How's my egg-throwing coleslaw?) 14:42, 3 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I speak German, so they make more sense to me than the French ones Ruhrfisch ><>°° 00:28, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Judgesurreal777 (talk · contribs)[edit]

Wow, already lots of help, but I did say I would help so here I am :)

  • Shouldn't the air dates for the original specials be referenced?
  • See if there is any reception that could be added to the lead; viewership numbers? Sales of DVDs? stuff like that.
  • Shouldn't there be a summary of the plot of the groups of episodes, like what was the plot of the french episodes? Having a sentence in the text before the list summing it up seems standard.
  • I am not familiar with your references, but make sure they are reliable.
  • Give the text a copyedit, make sure spelling correct, make sure if flows, and is of a high quality.

If you do that stuff, I think it will pass, or at least you will have minimal fixes to do :) Good luck! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 03:15, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Did my little detective work on the specials' airdates, and I've brought up a bit of #2 in the Germany section. As for reception/sales statements, I guess it'll all come down to three things: an extended French search for "Famille Passiflore" on Google; Yale's library staff (through Y! Messenger); and the CT Libraries' Ask-a-Librarian service.
As for season summaries, children's cartoons don't usually follow extended plot lines; pardon me if you don't approve. --Slgrandson (How's my egg-throwing coleslaw?) 14:14, 7 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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