Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/SMS Kaiserin

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Promoted EyeSerenetalk 13:53, 12 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

SMS Kaiserin[edit]

Nominator(s): Parsecboy (talk)


Yet another German battleship article up for A-class review. The ship saw active service with the III Squadron of the High Seas Fleet during World War I, including at Jutland. Like most of the other German battleships, she was scuttled in Scapa Flow after the end of the war, and ultimately raised and broken up for scrap. Thanks in advance to all those who review the article, I look forward to working with you to ensure that this article meets the project's A-class criteria. Parsecboy (talk) 15:35, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • CommentsSupport by MisterBee1966 (talk · contribs), more to follow when I have read Hildebrand, Hans H. / Röhr, Albert / Steinmetz, Hans-Otto
    • "The ship disposed with the inefficient hexagonal turret arrangement of previous German battleships; instead, three of the five turrets were mounted on the centerline, with two of them arranged in a superfiring pair aft." What made the hexagonal turret configuration inefficient? I could not find the info in the article nor in the class article.
    • Citation "Staff Battleships, p.": shouldn't this be Staff German Battleships, p."?
    • link 8.8 cm (3.5 in) SK L/45
    • Holtenau is in Kiel
    • Hundsort is the peninsula in the west north west of Ösel.
    • Why no footnote: "SMS" stands for "Seiner Majestät Schiff" (English: His Majesty's Ship)
    • I have to admit that I still find it difficult to distinguish between British and German units. How about adding a footnote that Arabic numerals denote a British unit and Roman numerals a German? MisterBee1966 (talk) 13:09, 9 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Heavy haze forced Kaiserin to check fire after two salvos, however" what does check fire mean?
    • Some facts from Hildebrand, Röhr and Steinmetz volume 5
      • Speech during launch by Grandadmiral Hans von Koester, p. 70
      • christened by Princess Victoria Louise of Prussia, p. 70
        • The Kaiser and his wife were also present, p. 70
      • 17 November 1917 actions: Commander KzS Kurt Graßhoff was critized by the chief of fleet von Reuter and relieved of his command. I am trying to find out what he did wrong.
        • Added the first two - let me know what you find out about Graßhoff. Parsecboy (talk) 10:23, 7 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
          • Graßhoff was in charge of the covering force. Reuter criticized Graßhoff’s for lagging too far behind the main task force. p. 71
Sources comments
  • Be consistent in whether you link publisher locations or not
  • Regards Staff (2010): there is a 'volume' parameter in {{cite book}}.
  • Editors should be noted as such, also in citations.
  • 'Footnotes' and 'Notes' are the same when both are at the foot of a text; I would recommend you to change the header title 'Footnotes' to 'Endnotes'. Eisfbnore • talk 04:49, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks for checking these, they should all be fixed now. Parsecboy (talk) 17:00, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Excellent, though it seems like you changed the wrong header; I ment to change the header of the footnoted comments, above the citations. I've been bold and done that. Eisfbnore • talk 03:59, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • CommentsSupport
    • External links check out [1] (no action required),
    • 2 Dabs [2]
    • One of the images lacks alt text, its not a requirement of A class but you might consider adding it for consistency [3] (suggestion only).
    • The Citation Check tool reveals one minor error with reference consoldiation:
      • "Campbell, p. 152" (Multiple references contain the same content)
    • The Earwig tool seems to be broken so I haven't checked it for copyvios or closeparaphrase but AGF.
    • High Seas Fleet wikilinked twice in the lead.
    • Pre-dreadnoughts should probably be wikilinked at first instance (currently wikilinked but later on).
    • Probably should include David Beatty's rank at first instance here "...British 1st Battlecruiser Squadron under the command of David Beatty."
    • "On 18 August, Admiral Scheer attempted..." this should just be "On 18 August, Scheer attempted..." removing rank after the first formal introduction per WP:SURNAME.
    • Multiple linking of pre-dreadnoughts per WP:REPEATLINK.
    • "The next morning, the Vice Admiral Schmidt..." Do we know Schmidt's first name? If so it should be included here I think.
    • Prose here: "Heavy haze forced Kaiserin to check fire after two salvos, however." However what? IMO this might work better as "However, heavy haze forced Kaiserin to check fire after two salvos." (fairly minor issue I agree though - suggestion only)
    • Citations and references look fine to me (no action required).
    • Images all appear to be PD with the appropriate infomation (no action required).
    • Overall, another high quality article IMO. Just a few minor prose and MOS issues to fix/discuss. Anotherclown (talk) 11:03, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • Thanks for the review. Everything should be fixed. I just removed the "however" from the one line (I think sentences shouldn't start with "however"). Parsecboy (talk) 13:54, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • All my points have been dealt with so I have added my support now. Well done. Anotherclown (talk) 19:23, 26 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support with minor comments:

  • Grand Fleet is overlinked in the service history section.
  • "The Kaiser removed von Ingenohl from his post on 2 February,..." should he be referred to as his title? I've been under the impression that just using last names is the most neutral writing.
  • I'm also wondering why some ship formations are linked and others are not. Even if there aren't articles for some of them and they are only redlinks for now (III and IV Divisions, II Battle Squadron, etc.) it's still noticably inconsistent.
  • ISBNs in references are inconsistent. Some are ISBN-10 and some are ISBN-13. Please make consistent. —Ed!(talk) 05:32, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks for reviewing the article. Should all be fixed, except for ISBNs - as far as I know, the general preference is to use the first ISBN issued (which would be the ten-digit for those that have them, as thirteen digit ISBNs were introduced in 2007). This is at least the procedure at FAC. Parsecboy (talk) 12:27, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Comments. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. Please check the edit summaries. - Dank (push to talk) 17:34, 7 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • "During trials the ship's turbine engines were damaged, which delayed final completion. As a result, Kaiserin did not join the fleet until 13 December 1913." Nate, would I be missing the point if I shortened this? I'm thinking of "During trials the ship's turbine engines were damaged, so that and Kaiserin did not join the fleet until 13 December 1913." - Dank (push to talk) 17:34, 7 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "15 cm (5.9 in) SK L/45": Don't insert something in the middle of a name for something. In particular, don't insert a conversion in the middle of a link, per MOSNUM. - Dank (push to talk) 19:43, 7 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "8.8 cm (3.5 in) SK L/45 guns": same here.
  • "The voyage required lightening, but in just under twelve hours Kaiserin exited the locks ...": It would be a little easier to understand what the "but" means if you inserted something like "which normally took several days". - Dank (push to talk) 19:51, 7 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Should all be fixed - the "but" isn't contrasting anything and I have removed it. Parsecboy (talk) 20:22, 7 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "on 5 to 7 March": I'm skeptical, but as with many MOSNUM matters, it's not my call.
  • "The eight Helgoland and Nassau class battleships": "The eight Helgoland- and Nassau-class battleships", or you can avoid the hyphens by putting "battleships" somewhere else.
  • "the I and II Divisions, I Squadron": the I and II Divisions in I Squadron
  • "after receiving false report": after receiving a false report
  • "straddled": link it
  • "stated "I no longer have a navy".": stated, "I no longer have a navy" - Dank (push to talk) 20:37, 7 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • The rest should be fixed. Thanks again Dan. Parsecboy (talk) 14:39, 9 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on prose per standard disclaimer. These are my edits. - Dank (push to talk) 20:31, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • One new potential problem: "... Kaiserin's commander, Kapitän zur See Kurt Graßhoff ...". I'm too tired at the moment to dig up the previous discussions on when it's okay not to translate German, and when to use ß; maybe you can find them. - Dank (push to talk) 20:31, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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