Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Yuri Gagarin

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted by Kges1901 (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 11:20, 18 August 2019 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

Yuri Gagarin[edit]

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Nominator(s): Coffeeandcrumbs (talk)

Yuri Gagarin (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

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I am nominating this article for A-Class review because I believe it meets the criterion for the class. The article has undergone a GA review which can be found at Talk:Yuri Gagarin/GA1. I have since expanded lead and continued to copy-edit the article. As most people know, Gagarin was the first human in space and a very important figure in world history. The article is viewed by over 1,000,000 readers each year and is likely to have a large spike in viewers around July 21. (It is indefinitely semi-protected.) I would like to have it seriously scrutinized by editors with experience in MILHIST. This article is written in a generic Commonwealth English which is not my native lect. I welcome criticism where my North American English has crept in. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 07:08, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Chetsford[edit]

This is wonderful, Gagarin deserves an FA article so it's great to see you working towards it. I found it to be well-written, comprehensive, and an enjoyable read. I have a few comments that can be addressed or disregarded at leisure as none impede my enthusiastic support.

  • "The KGB's report declassified in March 2003 dismissed various conspiracy theories and instead indicated the actions of airbase personnel contributed to the crash." I think "declassified in March 2003" is a paranthetical expression and should be set out with commas.
  • "The bodies of Gagarin and Seryogin were cremated and their ashes were buried in the walls of the Kremlin." For efficiency, I think the second "were" could be omitted but it reads fine either way.
    • "buried" was a bad word choice anyway. I have removed "were" and went with "interred". --- Coffeeandcrumbs 12:49, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • There's an unresolved template in the second paragraph of Medals and orders of merit.
  • I think German Democratic Republic should be wikilinked since not everyone nowadays will know it's East Germany.
  • I was surprised not to see anything about his stature, only because it seems like a lot has been made of it, but that's neither here nor there.
    • It was much ado in popular media but scholarly sources do not emphasize it. They point out that those considered for Vostok missions, including Valentina Tereshkova (GA review ongoing), were all short. This was because the Vostok capsule was tiny. Gagarin was chosen from among the 20+ candidates/6 trained cosmonauts for his other talents which I hope I made clear. I added a note about the height prerequisites and Gagarin's height. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 12:49, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Some people might raise an issue with reference 81 and ask if a different source could be found. However, per WP:RSP, there doesn't seem to be a consensus for its coverage on "general topics" of which this seems to be one, so I'd imagine it's fine.
    • Thank you for the review! I will work on the unresolved template and ref #81. The latter is attached to a more recent 2013 revelation not covered in my books. I have the latest biography on Gagarin coming to me via mail in couple of days and it should allow me to rewrite those few sentences. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 12:49, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Chetsford (talk) 08:11, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Image review[edit]

  • File:Yuri_Gagarin_(1961)_-_Restoration.jpg: when/where was this first published and what is its status in the US?
    • First published in Helsinki, Finland in 1961. I am not sure how we determine status in the US. There is no evidence in searching newspapers.com that this photo was ever published in the U.S. immediately after its publication in Finland. Getty Images also brings up no results. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 22:06, 6 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • If it was never published in the US its status will rely on restored or subsisting copyrights. My reading of that page is that it's non-free, but please review to see if I may have missed something. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:45, 7 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • I am nowhere near an expert but according to c:PD-Finland50: In 1961, the protection period was 25 years from the year of first publication according to the §16 of the law of protection of photographs of 1961. Material already released to public domain according to the 1961 law remains in public domain, and therefore all photographs (but not photographic works of art) released before 1966 are in the public domain. (emphasis added) It became PD in Finland in 1986. Does that not mean it is also in PD in U.S. as well. Does URAA not apply in this can as well since the photo was in PD in Finland before January 1, 1996. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 03:51, 7 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
          • Did it have a copyright notice at the time of its publication? In what publication/form was it published? Nikkimaria (talk) 12:48, 7 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
            • The photographer works for Alma Media which operate(d/s) several newspapers in Finland. I have to assume it was first published in a Finnish Newspaper. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 15:39, 7 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:CCCP_air-force_Rank_polkovnik_infobox.svg is tagged as lacking source details and should include an explicit tag for the original design
  • File:Gagarin_Signature.svg: source link is dead. Same with File:RIAN_archive_615544_The_USSR_pilot-cosmonauts_Valentina_Tereshkova_and_Yuri_Gagarin.jpg, File:Gemini_4_Astronauts_Meet_Yuri_Gagarin.jpg
  • Gagarin-Poyekhali.ogg: source link is dead and what is the work's status in the US?
    • The recording can also be heard in this short film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=136&v=6ICqlD-2CX4. The short film's website says it is "a free film to download & share". Is that enough? Can I replace this film as the source? --- Coffeeandcrumbs 22:06, 6 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • That film has an NC-ND license, which is non-free for our purposes. The recording may well be PD for some other reason but not based on that film. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:45, 7 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • Looking at the tag again, I believe the claim is that it id PD-ineligible because Gagarin only speaks a single word in the recording. The recording is 1.5 s long and Gagarin speaks a common Russian word that translates to "Let's go!". --- Coffeeandcrumbs 03:51, 7 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Looks like File:Yuri_Gagarin_(1961)_-_Restoration.jpg is still missing a tag indicating its status in the US; otherwise good. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:06, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
G'day Coffeeandcrumbs, just checking you've seen this. It is the only thing holding up promotion from what I can tell. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:06, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I have asked for help at c:Commons:Village_pump/Copyright#File:Yuri_Gagarin_(1961)_-_Restoration.jpg. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 08:20, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Nikkimaria and Peacemaker67: Here is my thinking:
  • Photo was created in 1964 and published in 1964 in Finland and there is no evidence it was simultaneous published in the U.S.
  • According to Template:PD-Finland50, before 1991, "the protection period [in Finland] was 25 years from the year of first publication according to the §16 of the law of protection of photographs of 1961."
  • Therefore, the photograph became PD in Finland in 1989, before date of URAA (January 1, 1996).
  • QED: The photograph is PD in U.S. because it was already PD in its home country in January 1996 and therefore not restored by URAA.
So I added Template:PD-1996. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 20:29, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nikkimaria I would appreciate any acknowledgement or comments. Thank you! Regards. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 21:37, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That seems reasonable. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:44, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from AustralianRupert[edit]

Support: G'day, Coffeeandcrumbs, thanks for your efforts on this very important article. I have the following suggestions for improvements: AustralianRupert (talk) 03:47, 13 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Soviet Air Forces is overlinked in the lead
  • in the body there are several examples of ovelink: Gararin, Smolensk Oblast; Lyubertsy; Orenburg; MiG-15; Alexei Leonov; Vladmir Komarov; Zhukovsky Air Force Engineering Academy; Baikonur Cosmodrome; Star City, Russia; Red Square;
  • who graduated from Orenburg Medical School --> "who had graduated from Orenburg Medical School"?
    •  Working. This is more complicated than it seems. I need to figure out when she graduated. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 15:34, 13 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Done. I am pretty confident now she graduated before they met. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 10:35, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • in the citations, there is a page needed tag on citation # 107 that should b dealt with
  • is there a translation that could be provided for the title of the work in citation # 75?
  • same as above in the Sources for the title of the Pervushin work?
  • suggest moving the long quote out of citation # 21, and making it a Note
    • Done. There are some duplicate links here but I think they are useful to repeat in the Note. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 14:21, 13 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note 2 uses a different referencing format to the other notes, which should be consistent
  • in the Sources section, the full bibliographic entries don't require page numbers unless they are chapters inside larger works, or journal articles. The page numbers should be used in the citations, though. For instance compare Impey with Louis
  • in the Awards and honours section there is a "chronology citation needed" tag that should be dealt with. If citation # 15 meets this requirement, the tag could just be removed
  • "manoeuvered" --> "manoeuvred"
  • On 12 April 1961, 6:07 am --> "On 12 April 1961, at 6:07 am..."
  • Gagarin was qualified a Military Pilot 1st Class --> "Gagarin was recognised as a qualified a Military Pilot 1st Class..."
  • which revised it rules, and acknowledge that --> "which revised its rules, and acknowledged that..."?
  • the scale of which were second only to World War II Victory Parades --> "the World War II Victory Parades"?
  • eighth anniversary of the beginning of Cuban Revolution --> "the Cuban Revolution"
  • after the incident at the Black Sea resort, did Gargarin and his wife remain together? Is this stated in any reliable sources? If not, no worries
  • image caption: "A Russian MiG-15UTI, the same type as Gagarin was flying" --> "was flying when he was killed"?
  • a second, "unauthorized" Su-15 --> " a second, "unauthorized" aircraft"? (as the first aircraft in the area was Gargarin's MiG and not an Su-15?)
    • Fixed. I went with "the presence of a second aircraft, an "unauthorized" Su-15, flying in the area." --- Coffeeandcrumbs 14:36, 13 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by CPA-5[edit]

  • Anna Timofeyevna Gagarina as a dairy farmer.[b][5] Switch the letter note and the ref here.
  • during the German advance on Moscow Pipe German to Nazi Germany and unlink Moscow because of common term.
  • suffered during the Nazi occupation of Russia during World War II You mean Soviet Union because Byelorussia and Ukraine suffered too.
  • to the 1st Chkalovsky Higher Air Force Pilots School, a flight school No link to 1st Chkalovsky Higher Air Force Pilots School?
  • American program v. British programme, don't forget that this article is written with many British words.
  • the Credential Committee of the Soviet Government Decapitalise government here.
  • by experiencing g-forces in a centrifuge.[31][28] Re-order the refs in numerical order.
  • On 17 January 1961, they were tested I do not believe we should use the same more than once in every paragraph the readers do know we're still in 1961.
  • train in the flight-ready spacecraft on 7 April 1961 Same as above.
  • the call sign Kedr (Russian: Кедр, Siberian pine or cedar) Unlink Russian because of common term.
  • before returning to Earth in Kazakhstan Pipe Kazakhstan to the Kazakh Soviet Socialist Republic.
  • At about 23,000 feet (7,000 m), Gagarin ejected We're speaking about a Soviet-related article so metric units are primary here.
  • the Soviet Union and Eastern Bloc Link Eastern Bloc here.
  • going to London and Manchester.[54][50] Re-order the refs in numerical order and unlink London because of common term.
  • he also went to Brazil, Bulgaria, Canada, Cuba, Czechoslovakia, Finland, Hungary, and Iceland Pipe Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia and Hungary to the People's Republic of Bulgaria, Czechoslovak Socialist Republic and Hungarian People's Republic.
  • Soviet Air Forces on 12 June 1962, and received the rank of colonel on 6 November 1963.[16] On 20 December 1963 Do not believe we should use a second 1962 and 1963 in the same paragraph.
    • I have removed the second 1963 but I think the second 1962 is needed for clarity. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 14:37, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Air Force Engineering Academy.[30][69][68] Re-order the refs in numerical order.
  • They were married on 7 November 1957 Remove 1957 here.
    • Replaced with of the same year. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 14:37, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Baptised v. baptized.
  • Damnit, every single time I have to double and triple check to be sure it's not a quote. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 14:46, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • the Order of the Cross of Grunwald (1st Degree) in Poland Pipe Poland to the Polish People's Republic.
  • the Hero of Labor award from Democratic Republic of Vietnam Link the Democratic Republic of Vietnam.
  • the International Day of Human Space Flight by the United Nations Unlink United Nations because of common term.
  • known as Gagarin's Start. Gagarin Raion in Sevastopol, Ukraine Pipe Ukraine to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic.
  • a 262 km (163 mi)-wide crater on the far side No hyphen needed.
  • (Russian: Созвездье Гагарина, tr. Sozvezdie Gagarina) Unlink Russian again here.

That's anything from me. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 10:21, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Hey CC could you please explain me what this is including the Order of Georgi Dimitrov) on 24 May.[16][chronology citation needed]? Why is there a "chronology citation needed" template here? Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 14:46, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I placed that chronology citation needed tag. I could not find a source for the date. I know the year (1961) but all the other merits in that paragraph have exact dates and not just the year. I don't know where 24 May came from but I have no reason to doubt it and also no way to verify it. I have sources that say he was in Bulgaria ca. 21–24 May 1961 and he did receive those medals that year. There is a little of sythensis there to get to claim that he received those medals on that exact date.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 23:24, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have commented out the unsourced date. It should be good now--- Coffeeandcrumbs 23:24, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think this one is ready to go. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 14:46, 31 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Source review[edit]

  • Some of your references lack place of publication. Be consistent
  • Be consistent in you handle university press names. Some have parts of their names abbreviated.
  • Your cites use ampersands for multi-author works. Adding "|lastauthoramp=y" to the cite book template for your multi-author sources will give them ampersands to match
  • What edition is Polmar & Breyer? The latter's last name is misspelled, both in the source listing and in cite #119
    • Added edition and fixed Breyer's last name. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 23:24, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Put all your journal, chapter and newspaper article titles in title case.
    • Done. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 23:24, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • Not so.
        • Changed all to sentence case consistently. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 03:13, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
          • Why sentence case rather than title case?
            • Because it is favoured both in British English and Russian. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 18:45, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
              • Huh, that seems strange to me since an article title is still a title, but at least you're consistent--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 18:53, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref #112 needs a page number.
    • I am trying to locate a copy of that book. I have been unable so far. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 23:24, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • That's the only thing holding this up. The isbn is to a paperback edition, try searching for a hardback edition. You should be able to borrow it from Inter-Library Loan if you're based in the US.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 14:20, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • @Hawkeye7: Do you have a copy of Men From Earth? I have three other Aldrin books, but not that one. Kees08 (Talk) 17:27, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
          I don't own a copy, but have borrowed one from the library here. (It's due back in January 2020.) It's the hardback edition though, so I will alter the ISBN. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:51, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
          Added the page number, removed the page needed tag. The ISBN is the correct one for the hardback edition. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:00, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Translate the title of Pervushin and make sure that all the foreign language works have a translated title.
  • Ref #33 use all six digits for the page range
  • Spot checks not made.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 14:26, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Kees08[edit]

  • Is there any way to mention that the monuments that just have a bust of his head, like the image we have on the page from India, are all the same? The reason the Belgrade one looked weird is because they took that same bust and put it on a much larger pedestal.
    • Me and you know this to be true from seeing the many photographs but I don't see how we can mention this without doing some OR. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 05:09, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Manned → crewed per WP:GNL (unless used in a name like Manned Spacecraft Center etc)
  • The decision on whether to alter the imagery of Gagarin leaving the aircraft with his shoes untied has been mentioned in every documentary I have watched; I think it deserves inclusion
    • This seems undue unless we expand this article significantly. In the two biography of Gagarin, Jenk's The Cosmonaut Who Couldn't Stop Smiling and Doran & Bizony's Starman each only have half a paragraph dedicated to this. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 05:05, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Just a couple things at a glance so far; hopefully can make time for a thorough review. Kees08 (Talk) 17:34, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

G'day Kees08, assuming Nikkimaria is happy with the image licensing, I'm going to list this for promotion shortly. Just letting you know, as you indicated you might take a closer look. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:26, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I do not have any issues if there is a consensus to promote; I would rather not hold up the promotion and just provide comments at FAC. Kees08 (Talk) 17:06, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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