User talk:Kashmorwiki

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Hello

what do you mean by joined just 1 day ago? why and how does it matter? I want to know. i’ve been an ip editor earlier and have much more experience then you on afd’s.don’t disrespect anyone.even you’re only 7 months old here. ImNotAnEntrepreneur (talk) 09:27, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

ImNotAnEntrepreneur (talk · contribs), where did I disrespect you actually. Can you show me? I just gave a note to the admin. Regards Kichu🐘 ^Discuss 09:44, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

you are having some issues with me seems so, and it is disrespectful what u r doing. u r telling other people to check my account. u should at first confirm things with me. and what if i do the same to u? if u vote anywhere what if i write the same? won’t u feel disrespected? i will ask u to give the reason for your spurious remarks or remove it. u r new as well but doesn’t mean i will disrepect uh.ImNotAnEntrepreneur (talk) 09:52, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

ImNotAnEntrepreneur (talk · contribs), if you accuse me without any valid reasons, it can be callled as disrespect. I agree. I did not accuse you for anything. Did I? I just have a doubt because your account is only one day old and has been used to comment in an AFD discussion where some other new account like yours have been blocked for sockpuppetry. But this may be a coincidence. Dont be so emotional. I dont have any issue with you or anyone. Regards Kichu🐘 ^Discuss 09:58, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

And I am jut a normal user. Its the duty of admins to check such suspected cases. Thats why I noticed him. Dont worry. Nothing is going to happen if you are doing everything right. Kichu🐘 ^Discuss 10:00, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

That is what i was trying to say.it is disrespectful if u make remark against someone without any proper proof. also if u check the article for deletion in india country, u will see a lot of good article’s get delete because they don’t get enough reviews so i am just reviewing the articles and giving my comment as an indian, this discussion is very messy so i did not read what other have written or did not read sock puppetry comments. i just check the article references and then search the name on google if it gives enough secondary source as per wp:rs then i will post keep otherwise i will comment delete. u can tell me what is wrong in this article so i can change my vote if u think so but i will ask u to remove that remark on me..ImNotAnEntrepreneur (talk) 10:06, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

I dont want any one to change their vote. And you asked for proof. This may be a coincident. Just a one day old account giving the comment in that AFD. Thats what made me cautious. And you said you havent read anything in that AFD. That not the proper way to do it. It has been found that that article was created for promotional purpose. Kichu🐘 ^Discuss 10:12, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Oh is it. i read that from the nominator.it looks promotional but i always try to help to keep the article if it could be saved, u can check my history I’m in favour of most pages because my wp:before gave me some results that match basic and gng. and it is written in WP:ATD if an article can be saved by editing it should be edited rather deleted.it was nice discussion with u.if u have any future issue pls contact me before.ImNotAnEntrepreneur (talk) 10:29, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

ImNotAnEntrepreneur (talk · contribs) Did I suspected any other users who voted as keep there. Did I? It only because of a reason that I doubted you. Nothing is going to happen to you if you havent done anything wrong Kichu🐘 ^Discuss 10:14, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

History of Kerala Blasters FC

Hey Kashmorwiki, thank you for creating the artcle, 'History of Kerala Blasters FC' according to the splitting proposal. As you'd created the article by copying the majority of the content by copying from the current history section of the club's main article, what's your next plan? Is there any plan to reduce the the history section of the main article to shorter form all by yourself or with any assistance?Ken Tony ^{Shall we discuss?} 17:57, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Ken Tony Peter (talk · contribs), its already done. The section had around 57000 bytes. I tried to reduce the least important points from it and made it around 43000 bytes. If we remove more, some important details will be missed from the main article. Regards Kichu🐘 ^Discuss 18:01, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Okay buddy. I just wanted to ask you that because I thought this would come down as a burden for you all alone. Thanks for your reply and action. Ken Tony ^{Shall we discuss?} 18:19, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Do have a look at this policy

Hi! It will be good to familiarise yourself with WP:canvass. In the AFD when you wanted to mention a user:bearcat, you could have used username so that the editor is not pinged since only their comment was relevant. This is important in places where !votes take place or policy discussions etc.. Sharing since I think you may not be familiar with this. Best! Vikram Vincent 18:41, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Vincentvikram There was no sneaky intent behind my action. Like you said, I was not familiar with this. Will try to avoid this next time and thankyou for notifying me. Regards Kichu🐘 ^Discuss 18:50, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

An Article put for Deletion by you

Respected Sir/Madam,

As I could see you have marked the wiki page of Asrar Rehbar under deletion stating he hasn't played any full Professional League match. So I would like to bring to your notice that Asrar has played in the 2nd Division I-League for the past seasons which is a fully Professional League organised by AIFF for Promotion to I-League. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Footballbrain01 (talk • contribs) 05:03, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Footballbrain01, first of all please dont call me sir as this platform is not under the authority of anybody. And I nominated the article for AFD because the player has not played in a fully professional league as per current scenario. You may have a look at Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Fully professional leagues. I League 2nd division is not listed there. Thats why I opened the discussion. If you want to add it into the list, you can start a discussion in Wikiproject football and reach consenus. Hope you understand. If you still have any doubt, you may ask me. Happy to help. Regards. Kichu🐘 ^Discuss 05:09, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

I understand you have gone as per the knowlege of the list provided, but just to add I-League 2nd Division does fall under the same criteria listed and the player is earning a full salary for the contract duration and is fully dependent on it. If you could add I-League 2nd Division in the list it would be great as it qualifies for the same. The club Asrar plays for i.e. Bangalore United also falls under the status of a Professional Football Club and is participating in the I-League 2nd Division to gain promotion to the I-League. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Footballbrain01 (talk • contribs) 06:49, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Footballbrain01 I cannot simply add any league into the list. Any major changes in wikipedia is attained only based on consensus. It will take time and I still believe Indian football is under develpoment and we will get a proper league structure by 2025. So I would not like to open any disussion at the moment. Regards Kichu🐘 ^Discuss 09:15, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

ARTICLE PUT UP FOR DELETION BY YOU

Hi mate, hope you're having a great day today!

You have recently put up an article about "Mohammad Asrar Rehbar" up for deletion, and I would like to tell you why it would not only be unfair but also very crippling for a young footballer who is working hard every single day to do things honestly and passionately.

First and foremost, under the Wikiproject Football/Professional league guidelines, a fully professional league is defined as one where virtually all adult players are paid a salary and can live on and do not need additional sources of income. It further goes on to say that this salary should be a living wage in the nation where the league is based, and preferably around or above the average or median national wage. The professionalism of the league should also extend to sufficient contact hours, and facilities, equipment, expenses, and other support as necessary to allow the full-time pursuit of the sport. It is pertinent that I tell you in the context of this definition that the player in question, i.e., Mohamed Asrar Rehbar falls into the category of a "professional player", and his team, i.e., Bengaluru United falls into the category of a "professional team'.

Furthermore, I should also tell you, that the I-League 2nd division is part of the I-league football structure, I.e., a competition whose winner gets promoted to play in the I-League. It is a fully professional set up, whose games are broadcasted live on television.

If the logic that is being applied to delete an article posted about Asrar is applied to other cases, then Bengaluru FC Reserves would fail to be called a "professional team", so would ATK reserves who compete in the Calcutta Premier Divison, and so would Kiyan Nassiri, a player whose page you created/edited, and who literally plays at the same tier of Indian football as Asrar does. The examples, of similar cases, would be endless.

In my humble opinion, the article about Mohammad Asrar Rehbar does not violate any guidelines laid down by Wikipedia, and taking it down would be to deprive him of his right to be peacefully conducting his own business. Your Wikipedia page is the first thing people look for to get a perception about you, and removing it arbitrarily would only cause loss of goodwill and face to a young, budding footballer, who in his own right never did anything wrong.

I hope you understand, empathize, and further close this discussion so as to not cause professional harm to Mohammad Asrar Rehbar.

Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SportsLawyer (talk • contribs) 06:14, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

SportsLawyer, It is evident that dont know exactly about WP:NFOOTY. Plenty of articles about non notable football players are getting deleted here every day. You must understand that this is an online encyclopaedia with certain set of guidelines. I am also an Indian with a mission to improve Indian football related articles. I clearly know about our league structure. I league second divsion is not included in the list of Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Fully professional leagues. So automatically, players who play in that club is not notable and fails WP:GNG. You mentioned about Kiyan Nassiri. That player has played for Mohun Bagan in the I league, which is included in the list, hence notable. I dont understand on the basis of what you are saying that Im causing harm to this player. So dont get frustrated and say anything blindly. By the way I am assuming good faith here since you are new here. But I also suspect that you are a sock of Footballbrain01 who posted this simliar thing in my talk page [1] Kichu🐘 ^Discuss 09:06, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Socks

Hi! Quick question: Have you filed a WP:SPI regarding the editors you claim to be master/sock? If yes, then templating them and linking to the SPI would be fine. If no, then labelling them as socks would be harassment etc. Best! Vikram Vincent 09:46, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Vincentvikram, Im definetly sure they are socks. But they have not caused as much disruption as of now. So I only meant for a warning. I have never opened an SPI before. So should I remove the tag? Kichu🐘 ^Discuss 09:50, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Tagging an account without proof could be problematic. If you think they are socks then gather the evidence and present it at the SPI based on the standard process while providing diffs etc. If you don't plan to do that then removing the tag might be better. Prudence. Vikram Vincent 10:25, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

RE: ARTICLE DELETION - MOHAMMAD ASRAR REHBAR

Hi, thanks for acknowledging my response. With all due respect, I have gone through the WikiProject Football/Fully professional league guidelines that you have referred to. If you observe carefully, in the list of fully professional leagues, right below the category of Men's League it says - "This list is incomplete, you can help by adding missing items with reliable sources ". So my guess here would be that a safe assumption can be drawn that this list is by no means all exhaustive? This is why I referred you to the definition of a professional league, which is given in the same article, so as to cordially communicate to you that Bengaluru United, the team Asrar plays for, is a PROFESSIONAL team, that has PROFESSIONAL PLAYERS on its payroll. This is a club that is strategically partnered with Sevilla FC of Spain. Ask yourself this, why would a top-tier professional football club from Spain partner with a club that is merely semi-professional? Ask yourself this as well, that all those teams that compete in the I-League 2nd Division for a spot in the I-League, are all of them semi-professional clubs competing in a competition? And do they only become "professional" once they qualify? As a matter of fact, if you see the Wikipedia page for the I-League 2nd Division itself, it says - "The I-League 2nd Division is an Indian professional football league. It is currently the 2nd tier of the Indian football league system, behind the Indian Super League and I-League".

The reason I referred to Kiyan Nassiri was to precisely prove this, that is he today not a professional football player because he plays for the ATK Reserves in the Calcutta Super Division? He still is, right? I understand he has played a game for Mohun Bagan in the I-League, but did he downgrade to being a semi-professional footballer because he's playing in the Super Divison? No.

I will simplify this for you: WHO IS A NOTABLE PLAYER - "Players who have played, and managers who have managed in a competitive game between two teams from FULLY PROFESSIONAL LEAGUE, will generally be regarded as notable." WHAT IS A FULLY PROFESSIONAL LEAGUE - "A fully professional league is one in which virtually all[quantify] adult players are paid a salary that they can live on and do not need additional sources of income. This salary should be a living wage in the nation where the league is based, and preferably around or above the average or median national wage. The professionalism of the league should also extend to sufficient contact hours, and facilities, equipment, expenses and other support as necessary to allow the full-time pursuit of the sport."

Does the I league 2nd Divison, and Bengaluru United a part of it, fulfill the standard for a team set out by the definition of a fully professional league? Yes. Does Mohammad Asrar Rehbar fulfill the definition of a notable player? Yes.

I will repeat again, the list you keep referring to IS NOT THE BE ALL END ALL - IT IS NOT ALL EXHAUSTIVE. Which is why, in good faith, I am appealing to your good sense here. If you are an Indian and are working towards the betterment of the sport, then we are all on the same page, aren't we? I may be new here, but I've worked in the football industry for the last 12 years, that too very closely with some of the biggest superstars in Indian football. Believe me, It is extremely important that all of us in the Indian football community understand each other and help each of us to grow.

I, in no way, want to be/intend to be disrespectful. I am just trying to logically put my point across, strictly and sincerely in the spirit of discussion, and i really hope you understand.

Have a great day. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SportsLawyer (talk • contribs) 10:53, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

SportsLawyer you may tell your concerns in wikiproject football. I cannot do anything in this case. Regards Kichu🐘 ^Discuss 12:10, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

False Accusation of being a sock

It just came to my notice wherein you accused a user of being my sock which mean having multiple wiki accounts. I would like to clarify that this is my only account currently active and just because multiple person supporting the same argument, doesn’t give you the right to call them sock puppet. Going by your way of accusing someone of being a sock, if more than 2 person support a same argument that means all the accounts are interconnected. So I guess at wiki no 2 people could have the same opinion isn't it? I have been in the field of Indian Football for about 4 years and I understand the league structure of India. I-League 2nd Division clears all the criteria’s mentioned in the article sent by you

I do not want to be disrespectful but I would request you not to label/accuse someone based on similar opinion unless you have any proof/evidence to support your claim as mentioned by user:vincentvikram — Preceding unsigned comment added by Footballbrain01 (talk • contribs) 11:40, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Footballbrain01 on going through your account log, it shows that you have only made 4 edits. The user SportsLawyer just created his/her account 8 hours ago and his first edit is in my talk page. That made me suspicious. Anyway dont worry. Iam currently collecting evidence and will definelty go to SPI if time allows me to do so. Regards. Kichu🐘 ^Discuss 11:55, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Sure, keeping wiki clean of such accounts is great but request you not to accuse based on assumptions as I wouldn't like to be tagged as a sock for not doing anything of that sort. No hard feelings, keep up your good work. Kashmorwiki — Preceding unsigned comment added by Footballbrain01 (talk • contribs) 12:00, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Kichu - if you think someone is operating more than one account and not declaring it, the best thing to do is to wait until you have enough evidence for an SPI, and then create a report at WP:SPI.

Some of the time, people who appear to be socks turn out to be completely innocent. I have sometimes put an hour or two of work into developing an SPI report on someone, but then not posted it because I have spotted evidence of their innocence.

Though there are templates for notifying people of an SPI, they can be interpreted as harassment. There are lots of policies against harassment and against biting new members. So, in general, I do not tell people if I launch an SPI concerning them. They do not need to know. If admins find that the account is a sock, the account holder will find out when he/she is blocked, and they can appeal. If admins find that the account is not a sock, the account holder does not need to know anything about the SPI.-- Toddy1 (talk) 12:08, 5 March 2021 (UTC)