User talk:Valjean

$\star$  Rules governing this talk page  $\star$

This talk page is my territory, and I assume janitorial responsibility for it. I may, without notice, refactor (rearrange) comments to put like with like, correct indents, or retitle sections to reflect their contents more clearly. If I inadvertently change the meaning, please contact me. I reserve the right to delete comments; however, in practice, I am normally opposed to doing so, and use archives instead. When all else fails, there is always a complete edit history....;-) -- Fyslee

$\star$  Regarding personal info  $\star$ I have become more sensitive to the posting (especially by others) of personal information about myself here at Wikipedia. I am the target of hate mail from some pretty unbalanced people. I regularly receive threats (including death threats) from chiropractors and other promoters of alternative medicine. While I would not normally have any reason to hide my true identity, such revealings by myself should not be construed by others as license to do it here at Wikipedia. Please use my "Fyslee" tag here. While such revealings here have often been of an innocent nature, I still reserve the right to delete personal information posted here at Wikipedia by others. My own and my family's security is at stake here, and I would appreciate support in this matter. Thanks. -- Fyslee 14:01, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Archives
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Request for Mediation

The Mediation Committee has received a request for formal mediation of the dispute relating to Example. As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. The process of mediation is voluntary and focuses exclusively on the content issues over which there is disagreement. Please review the request page and the guide to formal mediation, and then indicate in the "party agreement" section whether you agree to participate. Discussion relating to the mediation request is welcome at the case talk page. Thank you, [signature]

✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 23:14, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. I'll go read up on this. Ilena 23:45, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I do not understand why there is a request for mediation on an article that seems to have stabilized, and is pretty neutral now. I admit that I am mystified.Jance 05:20, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree. The article is not a current issue, while the announcement of the RfM was made in the context of discussions about her making of serious charges against myself. That is the relevant issue. -- Fyslee 07:21, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

If you're interested, Peter is answering questions about the RfM on Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_mediation/Barrett_v._Rosenthal. --Ronz 03:29, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

A Request for Mediation to which you are a party was not accepted and has been delisted. You can find more information on the mediation subpage, Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Barrett v. Rosenthal. For the Mediation Committee, Essjay (Talk) This message delivered by MediationBot, an automated bot account operated by the Mediation Committee to perform case management. If you have questions about this bot, please contact the Mediation Committee directly.

This message delivered: 12:15, 20 January 2007 (UTC).

Some wise words of advice to Ilena

(Copied from the block warning here.)

Site policies hold you responsible for acting conservatively about allegations against other editors. That means you must be forthcoming with page diffs and other relevant evidence that connects all the dots to your conclusion, and retract what you cannot support. If you read something into a certain piece of evidence and the same meaning wouldn't be clear to a reasonable person, then the burden of proof is on you to supply more evidence that fills those gaps. You say you've won a court case at the California state supreme court so you ought to be more familiar with that basic principle than most of the editors at Wikipedia. As of now I hold you fully responsible for supplying adequate and reasonable evidence. This cannot be unduly burdensome to the successful plaintiff of a prominent lawsuit. I will use my sysop tools up to and including blocks and bans to enforce that expectation. DurovaCharge 23:16, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Added here by Fyslee 09:48, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

She failed to heed the words of advice, and was then blocked for 24 hrs.. -- Fyslee 09:51, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

That blocked has been extended to one week. Ilena's block log -- Fyslee 11:52, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Defusing the situation

I am going to make an attempt to somewhat defuse this situation by editing some of my later posts (just follow my edit history to see where I do it, and notify me on my talk page if I miss any that should be changed).

My offer to Ilena still stands, but Ilena is refusing to accept my offer for her to provide diffs and evidence for her serious charges against me, and now she has found what she attempts to use as an illegitimate excuse to turn the tables, which is just another attempt to avoid providing proof of her very serious charges against me. No, it's her turn to provide evidence, not my turn.

I am now going to begin removing that illegitimate excuse by editing my posts. She won't like it, but I'm being totally upfront and transparent in my actions, and this is a good faith effort to simplify things. I'm going to replace any of my uses of the words "libel" and "attack" with "charges", or something like that, as the situation warrants. Since I have never had, or even hinted at, any intent to sue her, the point of whether a specific charge of hers is "libelous" or not is moot. I regularly get libelled and receive death threats without going to the police or courts, and this situation is no different.

She can't deny that she has been making such charges (which at Wikipedia are considered attacks against another editor), and thus her obligation to provide evidence still stands. -- Fyslee 08:48, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Wizardry Dragon (Peter M. Dodge)

Have you seen the black box on his user page, second from top? It might explain a lot. I suggest holding off on RFC for a bit. Regards, Durova^Charge! 01:21, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

From WP:AN

I suspect you have this discussion bookmarked as you have participated in it, but I wanted to make sure that you read this:

“ The provocation has got to stop. Fyslee, if we don't see significant improvement in your handling of the situation, you're just as likely to be sanctioned. Both of you need to stop, tone down the rhetoric and attacks, and work with the facts. - Taxman Talk 16:24, 19 January 2007 (UTC) ”

Fyslee, I always have been the first person to admit that Ilena's behaviour is poor, the dfference between me and others, is that I'm trying to fix it instead of sanction her from it. However, you need to realize that your own behaviour is also at fault here. I suggest that either you extend an olive branch to Ilena and offer to forget and/or forgive, or to try to disengage from the situation. It takes two to tango. If you won't feed her bad behaviour, then either she will stop, or she will continue and be blocked. I'm sure as far as you are concerned, either is a desirab;e outcome, so why not try it? Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 19:18, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the notification. I'm in the Danish time zone and hadn't seen it yet after a busy day. I have over 1100 items on my watchlist and am right now working on finding the diffs that have been requested of me, even though Ilena hasn't complied with multiple requests from several editors to do the same. We haven't even gotten close to that situation. She just recycles her accusations without providing any proof. I hope you realize that they are extreme misrepresentations of some slight facts. She twists things so they are hardly recognizable. So far she has refused to accept the olive branch I still offer her on my talk page. I have lost hope of her doing so, and you haven't been effective at getting her to cease all other activities and concentrate on doing that alone. As you should know, an accusation carries less-than-no-weight (as to its possible truthfulness) until precisely documented so all can understand it. Until then it stands as an undocumented charge designed to damage the person attacked, which is quite unethical. I am willing to lay low, but I expect you to then do your duty (as her mentor and what amounts to an Adopt-a-user) by defending me and censoring her. That's your duty. It is not your duty to defend her, except if she is being treated unfairly. She should not be defended when she violates policies and attacks others. She needs you to teach her about proper behavior here. I have only protested and tried to defend myself, primarily by repeatedly demanding evidence. For that you have treated me as an aggressor, which is very unfair. Not being allowed to defend oneself is very unjust. It's all very sad. I still find your intentions regarding mentoring her to be quite honorable. It's probably because you were unfamiliar with her (she's extremely infamous on Usenet and in anti-spam groups) that you even volunteered to try to help her. Good for you. No one else who knows her would have dared to try. -- Fyslee 20:04, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

• If I may be so bold, it was probably because it had conditions attached, and came off as "I'll back off if you do x y and z" - it wasn't unreasonable, but sure you can see why she refused it. Personally, I believe Taxman had a point. While Ilena's claims were the more damaging, you've also made some disparaging comments towards her as well, and those aren't acceptable either. If you would just leave Ilena well enough alone, I think with a one week block, if you let her be, things might mend themselves with time. An apology for the comments you have made would definitely go a long way to vindicating yourself, if it ever does come to the point of community bans. Strive to be better than her, and you cannot go wrong. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 20:16, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

nothing much

I am just pointing out that your QF site had an article where LP is mentioned as double Nobelist when you are heavily pro-QW, that's all. Sloppy writing in the wee hours. Thought you would appreciate the irony of a free QF link, too.--I'clast 12:06, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay. Pauling was exceptional and contributed greatly to our knowledge base. That fact should never be taken from him. That doesnt' justify his later course of action, both scientifically or personally. -- Fyslee 12:33, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

My offer to Ilena - 2

Ilena, you have made many serious accusations against me. If I have done something wrong, then I'll be happy to examine the diffs and either explain or apologize (it wouldn't be the first time!). I am inviting you to present your case here. It needs to be

1. Very precise and specific accusations

2. One accusation at a time

3. Worded briefly

4. Precise quotes

5. With precise diffs and links

6. Civil in tone

I am more than willing to work with you (as I have stated previously), and help you add information, even when that information does not conform to my own POV. Just ask for my help. I believe in the inclusion of differing POV, as long as they are encyclopedic, are from verifiable, reliable, and good sources, and without any WP:OR. If you doubt my intentions regarding the application of NPOV to opposing POV, just ask User:Dematt, a chiropractor whom I admire very highly. We have had a very good working relationship, and he can vouch for the fact that I allow much content to remain that is not in harmony with my POV, as long as it is added in a collaborative spirit, and is not in violation of any Wikipedia policies and guidelines. -- Fyslee 14:02, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Mediation

I must have missed something, what was your reaosn for rejecting mediation? I think it might have helped. Email me if you prefer. Guy (Help!) 20:31, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Arbitration

Since you have refused mediation, I have opened a formal Request for Arbitration regarding the matter. You may wish to make a statement. You may do so on the page here. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 01:21, 21 January 2007 (UTC)