Talk:Subdivisions of the Polish–Lithuanian territories following the partitions

Strange article

Well, it seems that this is going overboard. Polish teritories? Gubernia Litewska? Yekaterinoslav Governorate (gubernia jekaterynosławska)????? As far I'm informed Polish language was newer official language in Russian Empire. If you insist to have name "Poland" I do also insist to have "Lithuania", because of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, and Lithuanian Governorate. Or else it is pure WP:OR--Lokyz (talk) 11:06, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

This whole article seems strange. One takes the administrative divisions of three totally different countries and offers for them to be looked as "administrative division of Polish territories". I am not familiar of any academic work where the administrative division of territories belonging to three different countries are studied together only because at some particular point of time they belonged to Poland or PL-dominated PLC. This is outright OR. --Irpen 04:47, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I would support renaming this article to Administrative division of Polish-Lithuanian territories after partitions.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 04:59, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

So would I if there are scholarly works that study disparate subdivisions of so different countries under this particular angle. Until then, this is just pasting of different stuff together, a WP:SYN by definition. --Irpen 05:03, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

So you are claiming that in the past few minutes you have conducted a comprehensive review of literature and determined there are no works on that subject? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 05:05, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

No, as an article's author it was your duty to show that such works exist. None are listed and I don't know of any either. --Irpen 05:06, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

There are plenty of works from the area of political geography who discuss partitions of Poland. Larry Wolff's Inventing Eastern Europe: The Map of Civilization on the Mind of the Enlightenment; Tanisha M. Fazal's State Death: The Politics and Geography of Conquest, Occupation, and Annexation for example, not to mention a wide body of literature on partitions of Poland. This article my lack references, but it contains no OR.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 05:14, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

More: PWN Encyklopedia has an article on Polska. Historia. Ziemie polskie pod zaborami, which starts by discussing the administrative division. "podział administracyjny ziem polskich pod zaborami" is mentioned as one of the topics of this course, publications listed include H. Izdebski, Historia administracji, Warszawa 2001 and M. Pietrzak, Model demokratycznego państwa prawnego, ,,Studia Konstytucyjne” 1990, t. 7. Anna Radziwiłł W. Roszkowski, HISTORIA 1789 -1871, Wydawnictwo Naukowe PWN Warszawa 1995r. , has a chapter on Podział ziem Rzeczypospolitej po 1815 r. Heck, you can find this topic covered in almost any Polish book on the history of the partition period (ex. Jerzy Zdrada, Historia Polski 1795-1914, Wydawnictwo Naukowe PWN, 2005). But the best overview you can find here: a course dedicated to HISTORIA USTROJU ADMINISTRACYJNEGO ZIEM POLSKICH XIX-XX W. The course lists the following literature: A.Ajnenkiel, Administracja w Polsce. Zarys historyczny, Warszawa 1977 J.Bardach, B.Leśnodorski, M.Pietrzak, Historia ustroju i prawa polskiego, Warszawa 1993 Archiwum Państwowe w Gdańsku. Przewodnik po zasobie do roku 1945. oprac. C.Biernat, Warszawa 1992 M.Dereszyńska-Romaniuk, Kancelaria Urzędu Wojewódzkiego Pomorskiego w Toruniu w latach 1919-1939, Warszawa 1998 H.Izdebski, Historia administracji, Warszawa 1984 J.Malec, D.Malec, Historia administracji i myśli administracyjnej, Kraków 2003 S. Grodziski, Historia ustroju społeczno-politycznego Galicji 1772-1848, Wrocław- Warszawa-Kraków-Gdańsk 1971 S.Grzybowski, Dzieje prawa, Wrocław 1981 A.Gulczyński, Ministerstwo byłej dzielnicy pruskiej (1919-1922), Poznań 1995 P.Gut, Organizacja sądownictwa w pruskiej prowincji Pomorze w latach 1806/1808-1848- 1849, Szczecin 2002 M.Hładij, D.Malec, J.Malec, Z.Zarzycki, Historia administracji wybór źródeł. Pod red. J.Malca, Kraków 2002 J.Starościak, Zarys nauki administracji, Warszawa 1971 Historia Pomorza, t. III, cz. 1, Poznań 1993; t. IV, cz. 1, Toruń 2000. Straty bibliotek i archiwów warszawskich w zakresie rękopiśmiennych źródeł historycznych, t. II, Archiwa porozbiorowe i najnowsze, Warszawa 1956 J.Wąsicki, Ziemie polskie pod zaborem pruskim. Wielkie Księstwo Poznańskie 1815-1848, Warszawa-Poznań 1980. So any accusations of OR or SYNTH simply indicate ignorance, I am afraid.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 17:08, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

There surely exists a good number of books that discuss the partitions and the time of partition. But you did not show that any of these books study the subject of administrative divisions of three so different states together particularly where they expand to the former territory of the Polish kingdom. You just take unrelated administrative units of totally different states and paste them together into this article. This is WP:SYN. --Irpen 05:36, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Larry Wolff's Inventing Eastern Europe: The Map of Civilization on the Mind of the Enlightenment deals with the 18th Century.

Tanisha M. Fazal's State Death: The Politics and Geography of Conquest, Occupation, and Annexation says on the subject (p.114) "On October 24, 1795, Austria, Prussia, and Russia signed the final treaties of partition. Poland was dead, and its conquerors meant it to stay that way." Even the temporary resurrection of Poland between 1807 and 1813 does not warrant the comparative treatment of the subject in a reference work. There were no Polish administrative divisions outside of the Administrative division of Congress Poland. In effect the entire article is original and non-notable research, and subject to deletion--mrg3105 (comms) ♠♥♦♣ 07:55, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

If you paid attention to the title, you'd note this is not about a Polish administrative division but an administrative division of Polish territories.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 16:13, 23 June 2008 (UTC)