Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kimitoshi Yamane

Kimitoshi Yamane

Kimitoshi Yamane (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Unnotable "mecha designer"; creator claims there are sources proving notability, but the only ones provide either just stated "Yamane designed the mechs for this series/film" or are on disc/tape series extras that are primary sources and useful for production sections of those series, but do not establish any notability at all for him (essentially self-published-style stuff). Fails WP:BIO and WP:CREATIVE. Not actual significant coverage has yet to be produced for this person. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 23:57, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Anime and manga-related deletion discussions. -- -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 23:57, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

• Keep - this article's subject is on ANN [1] and ja-wiki as well as several other sources. The article's subject is a renowned mecha designer, well-known for supervising the mecha designs for Vision of Escaflowne, Cowboy Bebop, Xam'd: Lost Memories and several others. His involvement in these works have been detailed and published over numerous anime-based magazines such as Newtype (later to be translated for its USA issues), Animage and numerous others. He has also published numerous works on mecha design and is amongst the most highly-regarded in the anime industry. ···巌流^{? · talk to ganryuu} 00:14, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Also, thanks to Google Books (which is a most limited resource, unfortunately, I must tell you), I have found an excellent book: Watching Anime, Reading Manga: 25 Years of Essays and Reviews by the very well-known authors Fred Patten and Carl Macek, which mentions Yamane glowingly (in page 359) as a co-creator of Cowboy Bebop, also referring to his involvement in the movie Cowboy Bebop: Knockin' on Heaven's Door as being part of the "same dream team of creators" that created the original Cowboy Bebop TV series. This is a particularly glowing reference from two who are amongst the noted American authors on anime, and this I found thanks to Google Books, that is hard to navigate. I'm sure that I would be able to find far more if I was provided with an actual library of anime books (I believe there are a few though I don't have access to these) or even magazines, I would be able to find much, much, much more. ···巌流^{? · talk to ganryuu} 03:27, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
    • Clowing? There is nothing glowing there! That ref just repeats that he was part of the crew. Again, not significant coverage. Again, great reference for the production history of Cowboy Bebop but does not establish this man's individual notability. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 03:45, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
    • In addition to what others have already said, the book mentions he was a "co-creator" and part of the "dream team" that "created" the original series (added quotes to reflect the actual wording). As Nohansen and C S have mentioned, him being a creator of the show is of note and is quite notable, and I agree with them. This proves that he was definitely involved in the co-creation of this show. Also, this book is not a type that would refer to simply every animation on earth - no, this book refers to the most influential and widely-talked about anime and manga series that have influenced several aspects of society. I would urge you to read this superb book thoroughly as it is a gem authored by two, very well-known authors. This is only by means of a Google search though, a librarian who has far more reach than I, would be able to provide far more books. ···巌流^{? · talk to ganryuu} 03:58, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
      • Collectonian, please take it easy. Your editing behavior and comments thus far (including the article discussion page) are overtly hostile. This is not a battle. The ref does not just say he was "part of the crew". It describes him as a "leading member" of the creative team that created Cowboy Bebop. He is one of the handful of main credits named in the opening theme song (before the listing of multiple names on one screen). It's hard for me to believe that you would see all this and think he's just "crew", e.g. one of the fifty or so people involved in the production. --C S (talk) 04:22, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
        • It was a general statement, and he is just part of the crew. I've yet to see any actual significant coverage about this man as a person, which is what a biography should cover. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 04:24, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
          • I'm flabbergasted that you would interpret "leading members of the creative team were..." and then a handful of names, as "a general statement. Since you can't seem to access the same reference everyone else can, I'm starting to wonder on what basis you are making your judgment. --C S (talk) 04:30, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
    • Collectonian, I must change/add my reply here after seeing your revert of my addition of this reference to the article, not because you reverted it, but because you said you cannot view the page that I mentioned as a very important reference on Google Pages. You might not be aware of Google Pages, that is why I mentioned its format is troublesome, but they only provide a few pages for view on Internet Explorer, however Opera manages to view page 359 perfectly. Again, if your browser does not show the page, then please do not rely on Google Pages as it is merely a preview resource - refer to a library copy of the book, or you can also buy the book if you like. But nonetheless, it is mentioned there, very clearly, and in glowing terms, that he did infact co-create Cowboy Bebop, and it does not mince words in the slightest. I have provided that all that is possible with my meagure resources, as I do not have access to any library containing any anime books of any kind, but if these resources are removed as well and my edits reverted simply because your browser cannot view the page, then I cannot do anything whatsoever. ···巌流^{? · talk to ganryuu} 04:09, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
      • I see you have reverted my edits yet again. You claimed that all I did was add the same page from the book - but this is false as I even mentioned in my initial edit summary that I was referring to page 359, not 357 as was the case with the previous reference. If you cannot view it, it views clearly on Opera. If you cannot view this, please refer to the book on a library or buy it. The cite book template only mentions that you have to mention a source where to buy the book, if it is hardcover or published book, I cannot provide an actual URL. That is how Google Pages runs. ···巌流^{? · talk to ganryuu} 04:15, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
        • Google books does NOT have page 359. This does NOT change based on browser, its the same on all systems. If you have the book, cite the book not Google books, otherwise I question how you know what page 359 says. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 04:20, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
          • Actually it does. Rather than questioning, an assumption of good faith would be good here. Thus far, in discussion, and in your frequent reversions, you seem to be battling it out. --C S (talk) 04:30, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

• • • • • • Google Pages DOES indeed have the book. And it views PERFECTLY on Opera. Here is a screenshot that I have personally made to help: [2]. Okay, so you cannot see it, then please get the book yourself or refer to a library - but why must you remove my reference, or modify it and exchange in reverting my edits? I have not lied, this book is very well-known and real, and really I am not as well-connected to get myself an anime library in a moment's notice, but this is what I have found, in order to save this article, and you are just reverting my edits and disregarding anything that I am saying. ···巌流^{? · talk to ganryuu} 04:28, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
• Keep Yamane does not fail WP:CREATIVE. Criteria three reads "The person has created, or played a major role in co-creating, a significant or well-known work, or collective body of work, which has been the subject of an independent book or feature-length film, or of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews". As a (founding) member of Artmic, Yamane played a major role in the creation of Bubblegum Crisis, Detonator Orgun and Gall Force.--Nohansen (talk) 00:57, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Also, let's not forget Cowboy Bebop. --C S (talk) 01:46, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

• Keep. Mecha designer, or mechanical art designer, is an important role in Japanese animation (often one of the main credits). Yamane has quite a substantial resume, having worked on a number of important anime. I see no reason he fails the notability criteria. I see no reason to doubt Ganryuu's more than reasonable claims that there are suitable 3rd party references available describing Yamane's work. It would have been a more community-oriented attitude to have given Ganryuu some time to add them (it has been only 7 hours since article creation). --C S (talk) 01:46, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

• Keep. Notability criteria now appear to have been satisfied, although the main editor involved might do better by maintaining a more objective tone and avoiding peacock terms such as "renowned" and "glowing" etc. --DAJF (talk) 04:10, 20 December 2008 (UTC)