Talk:Upper Canada College

See also: Talk:Upper Canada College/Archive 1, Talk:Upper Canada College/Archive 2

Table

The format of the table is consistent with a number of other articles on Ontario private/independent schools, namely: Appleby College, Community Hebrew Academy of Toronto, Lakefield College School, St. Clement's School, and Trinity College School. Only one has the format you propose: St. Andrew's College (Aurora, Ontario). Whether you find your proposal more aesthetically pleasing is pretty much a matter of POV, so I think it's best to stick to the most common format to maintain some kind of continuity amongst the articles. Is there a standard for this type of thing anyway?

And, as an aside, UCC has never been a denominational school. --gbambino 17:38, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

It is originally Anglican. Also, the fact that most other private schools in Ontario isn't really consequential - most of those articles are barely anything at all anyway. There is no standard table, no. User Synflame 19:30, 6 February 2006.

UCC was founded as a non-denominational school. It may have had a predominantly Anglican staff in its early years, but Colborne was specific about not associating the College with any one religion. This is one of the reasons why Bishop Strachan (the man, not the school) was so perturbed by the founding of the school.

As for the table, that it follows the form of those on other pages is of matter - Wikipedia is about consistency and standards. In the absence of a standard, we should at least be consistent. Perhaps the table here could set a standard for the other independent school articles, I have no problem with that, but personally I think the present table's format, or something closely resembling it, is superior to the one you proposed (no offence, of course!). As well, tables throughout Wikipedia in general tend to have closed boxes rather than more loose rows separated by floating lines. --gbambino 19:30, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Excuse the late response, as I have been away. I understand your reasoning, and while I do beleive the one in question is aesthetically superior I will concede to the newest version (as of writing this comment), which I was going to recommened regardless (Ala [[Princeton University[[). User: Synflame 11 February 2006 6:25 (UTC)

Mascot

Is it really the cookie monster? CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 16:20, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I've seen pictures of a few football games where there's someone dressed as the Cookie Monster, but as mascots seem to come and go at UCC I'm not sure if it still is. It certainly wasn't when I went there. --gbambino 16:34, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Guys, it is NOT the Cookie Monster. Let me introduce you to Intellectual Property Law 101. Intellectual Property Law 101? Meet Gbambino and CambridgeBayWeather. CambridgeBayWeather and Gbambino? Meet Intellectual Property Law 101. IPL101 has whispered something in your ears, it is this: "The mascot for UCC is not the Cookie Monster because UCC has not licensed the rights to use the Cookie Monster from Sesame Workshop, a non-profit with world-wide exclusive ownership of the Cookie Monster brand". Next you two will be saying the mascot for UCC is Mickey Mouse....

If you concentrated more on reading and less on building up your sarcasm and condescension skills, you might have noted that I only remember seeing some pictures of a guy dressed in a Cookie Monster costume at some A-Day and other football games. I noted that the mascot may well have changed since then. Also, despite you apparently vast knowledge of copyright law, what else would you call a blue-furred, wide-mouthed, googly-eyed character, other than Cookie Monster? He sure as hell ain't "O RLY OWL," whatever the f*ck that is. I'm removing reference to a mascot until it can be confirmed the school actually has one, and what it is. --gbambino 21:53, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

If you want to know what the O RLY owl is, then, LOL, read the damn Wikipedia article on the topic! Until you do so, I am putting it back as the O RLY owl because you admit youself that you have no idea what the O RLY owl is. If you're not sure what it is, how can you be sure it's not the UCC mascot? Logic FTW. I am glad to hear that finally acknowledged my complete and utter correctness in pointing out the ridiculousness of your assertion that the UCC mascot was the Cookie Monster. At least, we can put that to rest.

I would have read the article if you had provided the right link. Before doing so it appeared you were making up utter nonsense. But, you still haven't provided evidence that it is actually the mascot. I'm not specifically asserting that it isn't (and it seems to contiune to slip over your comprehension that I never did attest to knowing for sure what the mascot is), but frankly, without proof that "O RLY owl" is, I'm removing it from the table until it can be confirmed by other sources. Nothing personal, just trying to be factually accurate. --gbambino 22:20, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

To the anonymous editor: please review Wikipedia's guidelines on Civility. Sarcasm and condescension ae not a good way of getting your point across. It is more effective to try to work with other editors than to piss them off. Thanks. Ground Zero | t 04:46, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Ethnicity section

Re. Barton: I went to UCC from '83 to '94 and don't remember any such comment. Provide a more viable source. As well, provide proof he was heterosexual.

Re. Motek: Remember the guy, but don't remember the essay. You say it's in the '91 Times, but strangely in the article you put '88. I'll check both my copies at home.

Re. photos in yearbook: The presence of predominantly "white" faces in the yearbook photos is not proof of systematic racism at UCC. It may well be the concequence of the fact that upper middle class and upper class Toronto society through those decades was predominantly "white." As well you can't necessarily tell someone's ethnicity just by how they look - do all Jews look different to Anglo-Europeans, or Eastern Europeans? --gbambino 22:05, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

You're right, ROFL, I have no source to prove Barton's heterosexuality. I think most people would at least say that he "passed" as heterosexual, what with his wife and kids and all. I applaud the high editorial standards you have set by insisting on sourcing EVERYTHING. As a result, I have taken the liberty of editing the entire UCC article by deleting anything that is not footnoted. Together, we can build a better, more reliable, more sourced article on UCC. I look forward to our collaboration.

Have anything substantial to contribute? Or do you just have a personal grudge against the school? Regardless, learn to work with more than just base generalizations. Self-improvement is a good thing. --gbambino 22:30, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Gambino, a lot more makes sense to me. I checked out your bio page. Turns out you're a fan of the Monarchist League of Canada. Which is about a hair breath's away from the KKK as a legally sanctioned whites only hate group. No wonder you don't like hearing about racism at UCC....

Please review the Wikipedia policy on No personal attacks. These comments are not acceptable on Wikipedia. Ground Zero | t 04:44, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Dear Zero, please refer to Gambino's quote "Unlike many other Canadian independent schools, UCC has a long history of ethnic students since its founding. The first black student enrolled in 1831, the first Jewish student in 1836 and the first aboriginal student in 1840, some graduates from the Ojibway peoples of Upper Canada going on to study at Dartmouth College and Harvard University. [9] Still, despite the inclusion of students from these ethnic groups, UCC maintained a reputation as a "bastion of WASP privilege." [10]:Do you see his use of the the "Still" and "despite"? These are weasel words and threaten the wikigoodness of NPOV, please, you must help us here and correct the bias that Gambino is introducing here by trying to "tone down" or delegitimize the "reputation" of UCC as a "bastion of WASP privilege". His phrasing instructs the reader to take any charge of racism at UCC with a grain of salt. Do you not agree? Can you delete these weasel words plz? Thx !!! :) 05:03, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Sourcing

Yo, Gambino, you're selecting deleting anything unsourced that you do not like. I can play that game to. Watch.

Try reading the sources provided and you'll note that everything in the article already is cited. Keep up your childish antics though, they're highly entertaining. --gbambino 23:01, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Are you a white heterosexual male from a middle to upper income family upbringing? Just curious. Please, please, please explain how EVERYTHING is cited in the article. I only saw 19 footnotes and I'm pretty sure that they were NOT backing up everythign written in the article. Are there 30 other footnotes in the article that were invisible to me? If so, how do I "turn them on"? You're not lying and being hypocritical in order to "win the argument" are you? I'd be very disappointed if you were....

Can I ask what exactly it is you want to achieve here? --gbambino 23:17, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I want to expose that UCC was not a racist-free playground nor even a paragon of diversity nurturing as the current article so hilariously insinuates. You only bother to expound on the positive elements of the school (the long history, its assets, its famous alumni) all the while swarmily ignoring its ugly underbelly. You can try to sabotage the exposure of truth, but you will ultimately fail. I promise you that.

I love how you so transparently ignored the question. So I'll ask it again. Please, please, please explain how EVERYTHING is cited in the article. I only saw 19 footnotes and I'm pretty sure that they were NOT backing up everythign written in the article. Were they? Please answer the question directly. Kthxbye.

Yo, Gambino, Your High Hypocriticalness, please provide the source for the following illustrative tidbits below. Please enjoy by point by point commentary, asking for the source. If you fail to provide sources within 24 hours, I will, JUST LIKE YOU DID TO ME AND OTHERS, start deleting all unsourced sentences. kthxbye.

Pleas review Wikipedia's policy on No presonal attacks. Name-calling, as above, is not appropriate. Thanks. Ground Zero | t 04:49, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

• Upper Canada College (UCC) is an all-male elementary and secondary school in Toronto, Canada. (SOURCE PLZ)
• It is the oldest independent school in the province of Ontario (SOURCE PLZ)
• It is the third oldest school in Canada. (SOURCE PLZ)
• It is widely considered the leading school in Canada. (SOURCE PLZ) O RLY? YA RLY. NO WAI. SOUNDS LIKE A POV TO ME!
• UCC is a non-denominational school administered by a Board of Governors as a public trust. (SOURCE PLZ)
• All of UCC's 1,000 day students and 110 boarders study the International Baccalaureate diploma programme during Grades 11 and 12. (SOURCE PLZ) WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN?
• The College maintains a traditional link to the Royal Family through HRH Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, who is the College's Official Visitor, and a member of the Board of Governors. (SOURCE PLZ)
• The school's current Principal is Dr. James Power. (SOURCE PLZ)
• Interim Head of UCC's Preparatory School is Donald Kawasoe. (SOURCE PLZ)
• The students are represented by Head Steward Devin Hart, and the Board of Stewards. (SOURCE PLZ)
• The College was founded in 1829 by then-Lieutenant Governor of Upper Canada, Major-General Sir John Colborne (later , Lord Seaton). (SOURCE PLZ)
• The school was founded in the hopes it would serve as a feeder school to the newly established King's College (later the University of Toronto), and was modelled on the great public schools of Britain, most notably Eton College. (SOURCE PLZ) O RLY? YA RLY. NO WAI. SOUNDS LIKE A POV TO ME!
• An announcement of the College's January opening appeared in the December 17, 1829, edition of the Canada Gazette, and teaching at the College began on January 4, 1830, with 57 students, the first boy enrolled being Henry Scadding. (SOURCE PLZ)
• By the end of the school's first semester, the enrolment had increased to 89. (SOURCE PLZ)
• Prior to 1829, the College was called the Royal Grammar School. (SOURCE PLZ)
• Its first permanent buildings stood on Russell Square, on land that is now bounded by King, Simcoe, Adelaide and John Streets in downtown Toronto. (SOURCE PLZ)
• Almost immediately after the College opened, plans were implemented for newer and more permanent buildings, and the 1831 school year began in new structures at the north-west corner of King and Simcoe Streets. (SOURCE PLZ)
• In Lost Toronto, William Dendy wrote: "All the UCC buildings were of red brick. Only the main block had much architectural pretension, with its large porch supported on stone piers and the windows ornamented with flat, ledge-like architraves supported on scrolled consoles.... The centre block measured 80 feet wide and 82 feet deep and contained offices and classrooms opening off a central hall on both floors; in the northwest corner of the second floor there was a "prayer room", with a dais for the master and box pews for each of the seven forms...." (SOURCE PLZ)
• In 1837, UCC's student militia offered help to Sir Francis Bond Head's Family Compact government in suppressing the pro-democracy Mackenzie's Upper Canada Rebellion. (SOURCE PLZ)
• In 1852, Mackenzie's sons, William and George, were enrolled at UCC. (SOURCE PLZ)
• On March 4, 1837, the King's College charter was amended to take UCC in under the control of the university, with the principal to be appointed by the King, the vice-principal and masters nominated by the Chancellor of King's College (the Lieutenant Governor) at the approval of the King's College Council. (SOURCE PLZ)
• By the 1870s, with an enrolment of 300, the school was outgrowing the 1831 buildings. (SOURCE PLZ)
• A $40,000 expenditure for expansion of the original structures was approved by the province for twelve classrooms, a public hall, a room for the principal, and beds for 60 more borders. (SOURCE PLZ)
• The improvements were complete by April 1877, with the centre block expanded and its main facade altered to more of a Queen Anne style blended with a modified Elizabethan. (SOURCE PLZ)
• Two story brick piers enhanced the corners and framed tall narrow windows, with the main entrance protruding forward, flanked by banded columns, more typical of Jacobean style. (SOURCE PLZ)
• An octagonal cupola surmounted the main entrance volume, surrounded by narrow pinnacles topping the corner piers, which all concealed chimneys and ventilation openings. (SOURCE PLZ)
• The eclectic mix of different styles was typical of the overall concept of Victorian architecture. (SOURCE PLZ) O RLY? YA RLY. NO WAI. SOUNDS LIKE A POV TO ME!
• By 1880, the College already again needed expansion of the boarding houses, and a gymnasium was necessary. (SOURCE PLZ)
• UCC came close to closing its doors in 1887, when a Liberal provincial government which supported university federation, and saw the College's endowment and downtown campus as sources of funds for such an expensive venture, came to power. (SOURCE PLZ) O RLY? YA RLY. NO WAI. SOUNDS LIKE A POV TO ME!
• In reaction to this a group of Old Boys met, along with letters of support from various alumni, including Lieutenant Governor John Beverley Robinson, in an effort to stop the closing of the College's doors. (SOURCE PLZ) O RLY? YA RLY. NO WAI. SOUNDS LIKE A POV TO ME!
• The meeting ended with a unanimous motion that the group's views be laid before the government. (SOURCE PLZ)
• The story was covered widely in the papers of the time, with the Evening Telegram being most supportive, the Globe taking a more moderate stance, and the News criticizing the existence of the school. (SOURCE PLZ) O RLY? YA RLY. NO WAI. SOUNDS LIKE A POV TO ME!
• In the end, after much negotiation, a decision was reached to detach the school from King's College after fifty years of affiliation, and to operate it under the guidance of five trustees appointed by the Minister of Education. (SOURCE PLZ) O RLY? YA RLY. NO WAI. SOUNDS LIKE A POV TO ME!
• The College was also to be relocated to an area outside of the city, though this provision was not included in the statute.
• From 1887 to 1891, much effort was directed towards the moving of the College. (SOURCE PLZ)
• The principal, then George Dickson, and the architect G.F. Durand, toured the private schools in the United States, and in February 1888, plans for the new buildings were presented to the government. (SOURCE PLZ)
• A site at Avenue Road and St. Clair Avenue was suggested by the government, but was objected to as the 14 acres was deemed too small. (SOURCE PLZ)
• A new site, slightly farther north, was chosen and purchased from a Mr. Lawrence Baldwin. (SOURCE PLZ)
• The ground-breaking for the new buildings at the new campus took place on April 2, 1889. (SOURCE PLZ)
• On July 3, 1891, the bell at the Russell Square campus rang for the last time, and on August 29, a farewell cricket game was played, and, in an attempt to ensure the survival of the College, the Upper Canada College Old Boys' Association was created on the same day. (SOURCE PLZ)
• UCC then moved to its current site, the Deer Park campus, 200 Lonsdale Road at Avenue Road in Forest Hill, with the doors being officially opened on October 14, 1891. (SOURCE PLZ)
• William Dendy described the buildings in his book Lost Toronto: "Inevitably, given the date, the style of the new buildings was Romanesque Revival. It was built on a foundation of roughly finished Credit Valley sandstone, with upper walls of red brick ornamented with terra cotta panels and string courses. The basic arrangement of the design - a projecting triple-arched entrance, a central tower, and flanking wings forming a quadrangle behind - was very common at the time, and had become firmly established in Toronto with Lennox's City Hall (1996-92).... In fact, the new tower, rising 165 feet above the ground, like a church steeple above the surrounding trees, became a symbol of the college - an ever present reminder to students, and to the city below the hill, of the importance of the college and the influence of the alumni that had been shaped by it." (SOURCE PLZ)
• The new buildings purportedly held a room for a commercial course, which contained a counter and series of wickets built to simulate a real bank; these facilities were to help teach boys the routines of banking. (SOURCE PLZ) O RLY? YA RLY. NO WAI. SOUNDS LIKE A POV TO ME!
• In 1902, a separate Preparatory School was built at the south edge of the Deer Park campus, creating two physically separate schools. (SOURCE PLZ)
• More than 400 graduates perished during both the First World War and the Second World War. (SOURCE PLZ)
• Historian Jack Granatstein asserted that UCC graduates accounted for more than 30% of Canadian generals during the Second World War, including General Harry Crerar, Commander in Chief of the Canadian Army, and Major-General Bruce Matthews, Commander of the 2nd Canadian Division and later Chairman of the College's Board of Governors. (SOURCE PLZ)
• The College faced another crisis at the end of the 1950s when it was discovered that the 1891 main building was decaying rapidly due to poor construction; cracks and pipes were appearing throughout, doors frames warped to the point where doors could no longer be opened or closed. (SOURCE PLZ) O RLY? YA RLY. NO WAI. SOUNDS LIKE A POV TO ME!
• Eventually there was a fear that the tower would collapse. (SOURCE PLZ) O RLY? YA RLY. NO WAI. SOUNDS LIKE A POV TO ME!
• Because of these problems, the building was condemned and evacuated by March 12, 1958. (SOURCE PLZ)
• Faculty offices were moved to the Prep building, the infirmary, and any other spare spaces, including the principal's residence, Grant House. Classes were conducted in portables. (SOURCE PLZ)
• That same year, a major fundraising campaign was launched as construction of a new building on the exact site of the old was started. (SOURCE PLZ)
• HRH Prince Philip visited in 1959 to assist with the fundraising. (SOURCE PLZ)
• Money to reconstruct the iconic tower over the main entrance was donated by the media magnate, Ted Rogers. (SOURCE PLZ)
• Even though construction began in 1958, during the modernist era, the symmetry of the original structure, as well as a clock tower, were repeated, yet instead of a Romanesque Revival style a simplified Georgian was used. (SOURCE PLZ)
• In the summer of 1959, Governor General Vincent Massey laid the cornerstone, and tragedy struck that same year when an Italian construction worker fell from the tower to his death. (SOURCE PLZ) O RLY? YA RLY. NO WAI. SOUNDS LIKE A POV TO ME!
• None-the-less, Field Marshal Montgomery, 1st Viscount Montgomery of Alamein dedicated the new front doors on April 28, 1960, and the new building was officially opened by Vincent Massey and Ewdard Peacock on September 28. (SOURCE PLZ)
• The $3,200,000 cost of the bulding was fully subscribed. (SOURCE PLZ)
• UCC welcomed the first woman to its Board of Governors in 1971 with the appointment of Pauline Mills McGibbon, although she resigned in 1974 upon her appointment to the post of Lieutenant Governor of Ontario. (SOURCE PLZ)
• In 1979, UCC celebrated its 150th anniversary in the presence of the College's Official Visitor, HRH Prince Philip, at the College's first Association Day. (SOURCE PLZ)
• By 1989 the Peacock Building, the original structure of the Prep School, built in 1902, was growing outdated for the needs of the College. (SOURCE PLZ)
• It still contained boarding dorms, bathrooms, and masters' quarters which were being used as storage and makeshift offices. Renovation of the building was considered, but eventually it was decided that a new structure should be built as part of a larger, overall building campaign for the campus. (SOURCE PLZ)
• The new Eaton Building, named for the Eaton family, which sent many sons to UCC, was completed in 1992, with a modern design that still included references to its historical predecessor. (SOURCE PLZ)
• The gothic pointed arch of the original Peacock Building main door was reconstructed as a free-standing monument in the Eaton Building's forecourt. (SOURCE PLZ)
• In 1991, UCC was visited by the Hungarian President Árpád Göncz, who would soon after enrol his grandson at the school, and in 1993, Prince Philip again visited to officially open the Foster Hewitt Athletic Centre, the Eaton Building, as well as the rebuilt College gates, the Mara Gates, at the foot of the main avenue. (SOURCE PLZ)
• Two years later the College decided to greatly alter it's academic course and adopted the International Baccalaureate programme. (SOURCE PLZ)
• The Eaton Building was extended in 1999 to accommodate the school's curricular expansion to include grades 1 and 2. Senior kindergarten was introduced in 2003. (SOURCE PLZ)
• By the early 20th century, the city was growing quickly around the Deer Park campus. (SOURCE PLZ)
• The College trustees began to explore the possibility of once again moving the school. (SOURCE PLZ)
• A property of 450 acres on the Credit River, north of the Toronto, was purchased in 1913. (SOURCE PLZ)
• Plans for a new college building were even drawn up by a Toronto architectural firm. (SOURCE PLZ)
• However, due to the First World War and the depression, plans to move the school were abandoned in the 1930s. (SOURCE PLZ)
• Still, the property remained in the hands of the school, and it has become a popular outdoor education centre for UCC students. (SOURCE PLZ)
• In 1964, a modern bunk-house, designed by Old Boy Blake Millar, was built, and an arboretum was planted. (SOURCE PLZ)
• In 1967, the bunk-house, known as Stephen House, won a Massey Medal for excellence in architecture. (SOURCE PLZ)
• Today, Norval is Canada's oldest "outdoor" school. (SOURCE PLZ)
• There is no fixed date for the formation of the UCC Cadets, though beginnings can be traced to a willingness of students to participate in the defence against the 1837 rebellion. (SOURCE PLZ)
• Later in the 1800s, in schools throughout England, Canada and the United States, involvement in a military body was thought of to inspire patriotism in young men, as well as being a good method of teaching discipline and obedience. (SOURCE PLZ)
• By 1863, UCC students were paraded weekly, in an amateur fashion, under someone known as Major Goodwin, but with the beginning of Fenian troubles in Upper Canada by 1865, UCC students requested that the Cadets form into a company of the Queen's Own Rifles. (SOURCE PLZ) O RLY? YA RLY. NO WAI. SOUNDS LIKE A POV TO ME!
• By 1866, the request was fulfilled, making UCC possibly the second school in Canada to have a proper Cadet Corps (the first being Bishop's College School in Lennonville, Quebec). (SOURCE PLZ)
• When the Fenians did attack Fort Erie, Ontario, on June 1, 1866 (see Fenian Raids), the UCC Cadets were called to duty, but were instructed to guard the armouries and official stores. (SOURCE PLZ)
• None-the-less, this was the only time in Canadian military history where student Cadet Corps (Bishop's College Cadets were present as well) was called to duty. (SOURCE PLZ)
• By the 1890s, there was a lack of enthusiasm for the Cadets. (SOURCE PLZ) O RLY? YA RLY. NO WAI. SOUNDS LIKE A POV TO ME!
• It was an extra expense for a student's family to cover the costs of uniform, weapons, and even their drill instructor, and drill and practice time was beyond the commitment to scholastics and sport. (SOURCE PLZ)
• Enrolment fluctuated over the next few decades, at one point the school's administration turning its eyes to the school the College had been modelled on, Eton, as well as Harrow, where Cadet participation was compulsory. (SOURCE PLZ) O RLY? YA RLY. NO WAI. SOUNDS LIKE A POV TO ME!
• No real action was taken by UCC in regards to the Cadets, however, by 1910 the population of the company had increased to 63, and in 1912 a Sergeant Carpenter was approached to act as instructor. (SOURCE PLZ)
• He was not to last long, as by 1914 he was in Europe as Sergeant-Major in the 9th Battalion of the 1st Canadian Overseas Contingent. (SOURCE PLZ)
• Numbers in the UCC Cadets still stayed high during the First World War. (SOURCE PLZ)
• By around 1919, the UCC Cadets finally became compulsory, and principal Grant asked the army district headquarters if the Corps could be presented with Colours, both the King's Colour and College Colour. (SOURCE PLZ)
• The College Colour was given by Elanor Gooderham in 1921. (SOURCE PLZ)
• During the war, the Cadets' association with the Queen's Own Rifles had lapsed, and by 1923 two regiments, the Toronto Regiment and Queen's Own Rifles were requesting that the Corps affiliate itself with them. (SOURCE PLZ)
• After some dispute between the three parties, the College settled on the Queen's Own again by 1927. (SOURCE PLZ)
• For thirty following years, the Cadets remained an integral part of College life, and by the middle of the Second World War boys were practising not only drills, but also spent time on lectures, map reading, military law, and signalling. (SOURCE PLZ) O RLY? YA RLY. NO WAI. SOUNDS LIKE A POV TO ME!
• However, by the 1960s, due to broader shifts in social paradigms, belief in the Cadets was faltering; religion and patriotism were not held in such high regard by youth, and rebellion was the more accepted behaviour for teenagers. (SOURCE PLZ) O RLY? YA RLY. NO WAI. SOUNDS LIKE A POV TO ME!
• Minutes of the Board of Governors meeting in 1965 recorded, for the first time in sixty years, poor discipline at the battalion parade. (SOURCE PLZ)
• Principal Richard Sadlier finally disbanded the Cadet Battalion as a compulsory body in 1976. (SOURCE PLZ)
• He noted: "The Battalion has been left with little beyond its ceremonial drill which is a pretty irrelevant exercise to many people today and difficult to defend when it becomes the be-all and end-all of a program." (SOURCE PLZ)

Jay Hodgson Group

Every graduate of note can't be included in the article - hence the separate page at List of Upper Canada College alumni. Besides, I've done a few searches on the Jay Hodgson Group, and came up with nothing substantial - no newpaper or magazine articles, just that Hodgson is currently completing his PhD. I've no real issue with him being included on the Alum page, but I think, in comparison to the other graduates noted in that list, more proof of his noteriety is needed. There are tons of semi-successful UCC graduates who aren't listed because they're just not all that great in comparison to the Order of Canada winners, knighs, CEOs, Chairmans, Cabinet Minsters, Lieutenant Governors, etc. --gbambino 23:06, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Didn't he conform with notability standards for music at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_%28music%29? He specifically complies with:

• "Contains at least one member who was once a part of or later joined a band that is otherwise notable; note that it is often most appropriate to use redirects in place of articles on side projects, early bands and such."

I don't get it, don't you read your own rules????

Semi-protection

I have semi-protected this page, which means that it cannot be edited by anonymous and newly-registered users. I have taken this action because an anonymous editor has been deleting large portions of text to illustrate a point, which is contrary to Wikipedia:Etiquette. In so he doing, he/she also appears to have violated the Three-revert rule, which is an official policy of Wikipedia. I encourage the editor to take some time off from this article to review Wikipedia policies and guidelines in order to learn how to work with other editors to improve articles, and how to avoid edit wars, which are a waste of everybody's time. Ground Zero | t 23:22, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Forgive me -- new here. But what qualifies *you* to hold this position of privilege? If this user was a registered user, what then? Or is this fairly typical when it comes to wikipedia (i.e., anonymous users screwing around)?

I am an Administrator, so I have special powers to protect articles, see through walls, fly, and, well, actually not so much the last two, but I can protect articles, block users, and do a few other things. If, for example, the actions that led to the semi-protection had been done by a registered user, I could have blocked the user from editing for a period of time. Semi-protection and protection are done with some frequency to protect Wikipedia from vandalism and to help resolve edit wars. Ground Zero | t 23:31, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

(1) Can you address the hypocracy of Gambino breaking the Three-revert rule himself with no consequences? (2) How does one deal with the hypocracy that he can delete additions "because they have no source" but if the same standard is applied to his writing, this is considered vandalism? Honestly, not being cheeky here, I really want to know. -- Unsigned comment by User:68.149.195.86

The word is "hypocrisy". The three-revert rule does not apply inthe case of vandalism. Your large-scale deletions were vandalism because you were disrupting Wikipedia to illustrate a point. For example, you removed references in the first paragraph to UCC being a private school, and all other description but "UCC is a school" not to improve the article, but to make a point. If someone challenges you to provide a source, the way to respond -- and this really is how things work on Wikipedia -- is to provide a source. Responding by blanking out large portions of text becuase you don't want to defend your actions is vandalism. I have been around Wikipedia long enough to be made an administrator, so I do know how things work here. And, often, I have learned by making mistakes. We all do. So please don't consider this an attack on you. I just want to encourage you to learn more bout this great project by reviewing its policies and guidelines. I've linked a few above to get you started. By learning about the policies and guidelines, you can be more effective in contributing to Wikipedia, and avoid messy confrontations like this. Ground Zero | t 04:26, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I hope that the Admin will note that Gamibino seems very quick to immediately whine to mommy admin with the "POV" argument as noted in the mediation he required with AndyL on the Monarchist League of Canada page. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_mediation/Archive_18#Monarchist_League_of_Canada_and_Monarchy_in_Canada. How many times will you let Gambino abuse the system to tug at mommy's pant legs when he sees things that he doesn't like until you Admins start rightfully ignoring Gambino's hypocritical propagandist rants? This isn't good for Wikipedia when advocates of an insane position can exploit you Admin folk to enforce an incumbent POV. -- Unsigned comment by User:66.208.54.226

Here is another policy that you can review to start learning about how Wikipedia works: No personal attacks. We do our best to be civil here. Your comemnts are not appropriate. Again, we all make mistakes when we first start off, so you're not alone in these transgressions. Making mistakes is how we learn. Ground Zero | t 04:26, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't mean to stir up the pot here, and please correct me if I am WAY off base (again, I'm new), but all this seems contrary to the *interactive* nature of wikipedia. I've been following these posts (am an old boy, so interested) and it would seem that there is one particular user who is working to ensure that any edits made by anonymous users, which do not meet *his/her* rather than Wikipedia's standards, are erased. I don't mean to point fingers, but one of the users (I keep seeing the handle "Gbambino") seems to me to be abusing his position somewhat, as he is constantly reverting any changes of, what seemed to me, at least, to be viable additions to this article (particularly on UCC and ethnicity). I appreciate that you are the site administrator, and I was wondering if you could tell me why this is allowed to occur, before I give up on contributing to this page before even starting? I'm actually worried that if I add *anything*, my work will be deleted. -- Unsigned comment by User:WormwoodJagger

I am not intervening here in defence of Gbambino. I have locked horns with him on other occasions, and I do not see eye to eye with him on a lot of things. I intervened to stop a senseless edit war between a regular editor and one or two new users. One of the new users made it clear above that he is trying to promote his own particular point of view ("I want to expose that UCC was not a racist-free playground"), rather than trying to achieve a Neutral point of view, which is what we aim for. I am not arguing that Gbambino's edits are neutral either. I'll start picking my way through the arguments on both sides over the next couple of days to try to figure out what -- if any -- of the anon contributions should be incorporated into the article. The most effective way to improve articles on Wikipedia is to work toward compromise, which was not happening. Revert wars are just a waste of time and bandwidth.

I am not "the" site administrator -- I am "an" administrator. There are many of us.

I am going to try to mediate between the different points of view here. You should be aware that not all of your edits will remain here unaltered. As it says at the bottom of every edit page: Please note: If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it.

Finally, please sign your edits by typing four tildes, like this: ~~~~. This makes it easier for everyone to be able to follow who wrote what. Thanks, and welcome to Wikipedia. Ground Zero | t 04:26, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I've reviewed some of the edit warring that was going on. There have been several points of contention:

1. Ethnicity: An anon user introduced a section relating three stories about racism at UUC that began with: "Anecdotal examples of deep-seated insidious racism at the school in the 1980s included:" This sentence is so very clearly not consistent with the WP:NPOV policy that it had to go. Of the three anecdotes, the anon user provided evidence for one, and at that point, Gbambino began incorporating that story into his subsequent edits, i.e., he was working toward consensus in keeping with Wikipedia policies and guidelines. That is how things are supposed to work here.
2. Inclusion of certain musicians as notable alumni. Gbambino appears to have moved this text (and I'll check this) to a branch article on notable alumni. This is consistent with Wikipedia policies and guidelines. Wikipedia has, for the benefit of the reader and for technical reasons, a guideline on how long articles are supposed to be. This article already exceeds the recommended length. The recommended way of addressing that problem is to move text to branch articles, which is what Gbambino did. It is not going to be possible to fit all of the information about a school with 177 years of history into one article. Some of it has to be moved into branch articles. The information is not deleted from Wikipedia, just moved.
3. The mascot issue: I haven't seen any evidence the ORL Y owl is the school's mascot, so that appears to be nonsense. I think that Gbambino has made it clear that he is not wedded to the idea of listing Cookie Monster as the school's mascot. Since it is clearly not an "official" mascot, for the copyright reasons listed above, it should be deleted.

If there are other issues that I have missed, please list them below and I'll try to sort them out. Ground Zero | t 04:42, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Zero, I reviewed the article on Neutral Point of View NPOV.

• But these racist events at UCC are not OPINION, they are FACT. Though in that light, I should retract statements like "insidious institutional racism" and let the FACTUAL occurences speak for themselves.
• I also object to the hypocracy that Gambino accuses me of violating Verifiability WP:VAND while at the same time, he is even more guilty than I. Why not delete HIS *UNVERIFIED* statements about UCC? He is violating one of the "3 pillars" of wikigoodness and you turn a blind eye to his contravention of Law while punishing just me. Is this fair I ask you?
• If I were you, I would agree with my reasoning that is solidly based on your OWN rules on wikigoodness and delete every single sentence in the article that LACKS VERIFIABILITY, which I will remind you again, is canonical law in wiki land. Allow me to quote for you what it says at NPOV: NPOV is one of Wikipedia's three content-guiding policy pages. The other two are Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:No original research. Jointly, these policies determine the type and quality of material that is acceptable in the main namespace. The three policies are complementary, non-negotiable, and cannot be superseded by any other guidelines or by editor's consensus. They should therefore not be interpreted in isolation from one other, and editors should try to familiarize themselves with all three.
• Please Admin man, I beg you, enforce your own rules of Verifiability on the Gambino. BTW, what's a tilde? 68.50.242.120 04:49, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Zero, my work in the Sourcing section above, in which I demonstrate that Gambino has 96, YES!!! 96 unverified statement and that's not even the whole article, just part of it. Please enforce Wiki Verifiability and force Gambino to source each statement or delete it (which was all I was trying to do before and was in full compliance with wikinesss as a result). I tried the four squigglies but they don't show up, what's up with that? 68.50.242.120 04:54, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

The four tildes work -- your IP number shows up. As far as I can tell, of the threee "facts", Gbambino has accepted one -- the Mostek story. Whether or not the Barton story is evidence of racism is debatable. It sounds like a pretty silly story for the principal to tell, but not evidence of serious racism. As far as looking at the yearbooks and seeing white faces, that is not evidence of institutionalized racism either. Were non-whites screened out because the school had a quota on non-whites? Or were they screened out by society's failure to grant them the financial and educational opportunities that are generally a pre-requisite for admission to UCC, and society's racism is what contributes to a mostly white student body, not UCC's racism. Finally, I've made myself clear on on the question of verifiability. You are clearly not questioning Gbambino's edits because you think they are incorrect, but simply to make a point because you are angry that he has asked you to provide sources for your edits. You can appeal to another Administrator if you think I am being unreasonable about this. Ground Zero | t 05:01, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Dear Zero, I must be confused. You acknowledge that Gambino has FAILED to conform with one of the 3 canonical pillars of wikiness by NOT providing verifiability. Who cares what you think my POV is on the matter? I thought you as Admin guy value NPOV, you don't want to hear my POV, so why would my POV factor into your decision at all. It is fact that Gambino is contravening one of the 3 holiest Law of Wikiness. You do not dispute this. In fact, I believe you admit it. And yet you will not take corrective action on Gambino? Why? I do not understand. Please help me understand. Otherwise could you do me a favor and just state for record in writing the following: "I Zero hereby acknowledge that Gambino has violated the rule of Wiki Verifiability in at least 96 of his statements, but I have decided to explicitly refuse to do my duty as an Admin and take any action to any of those 96 violations of Wiki Verifiability." Then after you do that, can you instruct me how I can appeal to other Admin people and show them your statement of rejecting Wikiness? Or do I wiki that? or google that? (not sure) 68.50.242.120 05:10, 14 March 2006 (UTC)