Template talk:Libertarianism sidebar

Schools

I can't think of a good argument opposing the inclusion of 'individualist anarchism' - occurred recently. Nevertheless, it got me thinking - what is our policy for inclusion/exclusion? I don't want the list to explode, and there are certainly many more schools which would 'fit', but not necessarily be a good idea to include.

Are there any suggestions? I have none at the present time.

I added 'social anarchism' for consistency. Byelf2007 (talk) 8 November 2012

Are we seriously listing US presidents as libertarian thinkers?

Before even touching Ron Paul and some of the newer additions to the 'people' section, is there a source somewhere on Calvin Coolidge, career politician, US vp, US president -- self-identifying as a libertarian? Did some of his contemporaries call him a libertarian or consider him part of the libertarian movement? If so, had any of them addressed the paradoxical nature of being an anti-state head of state? How about an anti-capitalist laissez faire capitalist -- considering the idea of calling 'free market capitalism' libertarian was about a century apart from his year of birth? Finx (talk) 16:41, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Format changes to template?

I reverted this change. I don't understand removing the color bars as "unnecessary style overrides". Please explain. CarolMooreDC 00:06, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Nearly 30% of this template's code is for things like overriding the default width and colouring. The pale yellow currently used in the title bars is not particularly associated with the subject, and the width override means that this template doesn't stack in a flush manner with most other {{sidebar}}s and {{infobox}}es. In the absence of a practical reason to override the defaults, they should be used so as to not distract readers or cause potential colour clashes. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 11:17, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

I find myself agreeing with elements of each of the above comments. I'd like comment in more detail later. I hope that any exchanges here will at least clarify. Consilience would be a bonus. --Thomasmeeks (talk) 13:24, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

• You can have any styling you like, CarolM, so long as it's... CsDix (talk) 14:45, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Someone else on Libertarianism first brought this to my attention, FYI.

Anyway, do the following templates which have lines between sections and/or color also create the same problem? Template:Anarchism sidebar, Template:Liberalism sidebar, Template:Judaism, Template:Feminism sidebar and do you intend to change all those too? (Also, does adding a graphic like statue of liberty cause a problem?) Thanks. CarolMooreDC 14:34, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

• Here's something I passed by not too long ago: Wikipedia:BEANS... CsDix (talk) 14:45, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

The capacity to override something does not imply the obligation to override it. There should always be a well-rationalised argument for doing so. Looking at the examples you've provided, while they all override the default styling in one way or another, it's instructive to note that they've converged on the default styling over time. That's a process which will inevitably continue. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 15:01, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

• Perhaps I'm looking at the wrong versions, but the examples you give still seem some distance from the current default settings (despite some efforts to default them). This process, if there is (or should be) one, will only continue so long as enough people don't mind it doing so. CsDix (talk) 15:47, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

• So if I wanted to spruce it up a little I could use one of those as a template and put in the relevant info and then the tech problems would be solved? Or could such changes be suggested here and someone better at tech make them? I can ask for suggestions at the Wikiproject or article and see if someone there knows how to do it. CarolMooreDC 15:10, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

It's trivial to re-add small amounts of customisation after the fact. Feel free to drop by my talk if you ever need help with it. In general, the less overrides there are, the easier it is to see exactly what each does. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 15:28, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

• "Logically, Captain, that doesn't follow" (as I suspect you know). CsDix (talk) 15:42, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

• I'm not really knowledgeable enough to fully participate here, but to me it seems that driving a design based on an "avoid overrides" consideration is the tail wagging the dog. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 15:51, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

I've put up a suggested compromise at Template:Libertarianism sidebar/sandbox. This uses a bolder yellow which is easier to distinguish from the background and uses the more compact format (see the test cases page for a side-by-side comparison; when fully expanded, the new version is nearly 50% shorter). Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 10:52, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Well, the background after the gold Libertarianism link in the sidebar is pale gold, not pale yellow.

Per well-made earlier points, any sidebar formatting that at least preserves the current look of the sidebar but simplifies formatting would be a net improvement. Most might agree with such a "remove unnecessary style overrides" Edit.

The WP:SIDEBAR guideline lists under "Advantages" (of a sidebar):

1. Provides a consistent look and navigation system for related articles (though not between different topics — there is no single format across all navigation templates). (Italics added.)

So, the guideline itself should be where discussion begins, not avoiding override of the default option. Otherwise, the "compromise" may compromise or vastly complicate even preserving advantages of any non-default sidebar, much less improving it.

For another recent example of how well (or not) the "remove unnecessary style overrides" rationale works, see here, before and after. --Thomasmeeks (talk) 16:47, 14 March 2013 (UTC)