User talk:Jayaguru-Shishya

Los Natas edits

• Please see the definition of the word "coined."
• Please use the correct method of asking for more information. It is not interpolating "such as?" into the text of an article.
• There's no need to seek consensus on an article's talk page before making edits.

· rodii · 01:23, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi Rodii. I think the right place for discussion is at Los Natas -talk page where the other contributors could follow the discussion as well in order to improve the article. If you find errors though, you can also help to improve the article by correcting those faults instead of removing one's contributions. Thanks! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 17:11, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Appropriate level of wikilinking

Good message at WT:MOSLINK. I do a lot of maintenance work that includes unlinking common terms and chronological items. But en.WP is ahead of the game in this respect compared with most of the other WPs. May I ask whether you have experience at another WP? And if so, whether you've had any success in convincing other editors to use the wikilinking system more skilfully? I've watchlisted this page if you want to reply here. Tony (talk) 11:51, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Greetings there Tony1! And thanks for your message, I'm glad to hear that there is someone else concerned with the same problems too.

I agree with you, the English Wikipedia is way ahead it's other language version counterparts. I am currently contributing to the Finnish language Wikipedia aside from the English one, and I must say that I am really giving up hope with it completely... Few practices still vivid and alive at the Finnish Wikipedia:

1) They are linking all the dates (official WP-policy there, e.g. October 5th, 2004)

2) ...linking a lot of common terms

3) ...linking compounded words from the middle even (e.g. toothpick)

=> If your try to remove excess linking - even with well-grounded reasons and participating the discussion at the Talk page - it is likely to just get reverted without any explanations. There is also a very little contributor base in the fi.wiki, and therefore it is pretty much the same group of contributors that keep patrolling on the changes in the articles and backing-up the doings of one an each other.

If there shall be any discussion though, it tends to be taken to your User -talk page, often on a very personal level, and taken away from below the eyes of the other article contributors...

I have also launched a discussion at the fi.WP, one where "I got mistaken to refer" to the English Wikipedia policies. This resulted into fierce responses, according to which Finnish Wikipedia is completely different, and that the English policies have no value at the Finnish side. Well, that's actually true and I do understand it but.... how about benchmarking? Is it bad in general? In Finnihs Wikipedia, it seems it is.

The Finnish Wikipedia has sunken deep with it's current conceptions, and the general mindset with wikilinks still seems to be "the more, the better".

That's pretty much my experiences in my rather small language version. Maybe I should just drift towards Citizendium (http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Welcome_to_Citizendium) slowly xD ... How about your experiences Tony1? Which language edition you've been working with? Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 19:23, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

You might tell them that overlinking has the same ill effect for all readers—whether of en.WP or fi.WP. The particular language is irrelevant. The war about linking started with the ridiculous date-autoformatting that was introduced into en.WP in 2003 as a ham-fisted solution to editors' fights about US vs non-US formatting. Only logged-in editors who had chosen prefs saw any "benefit". Not readers.

The main battle was won about six years ago: what was surprising was the vehemence of objection, and the fact that within a year or two hardly any editor objected. The whole attitude has turned 180 degrees. It's a symptom of how crude the wikicultures are in other languages that readers don't count. The linking system is washed out and the text looks pretty bad, because no one has stood up to the mind-set of the geek-nuts who are in control. Very happy to have you editing here.

User:Tony1/Most_poorly_wikilinked_article_award, User:Tony1/Survey_of_attitudes_to_DA_removal, User:Tony1/Information_on_the_removal_of_DA, User:Tony1/Build_your_linking_skills. Tony (talk) 11:24, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

Wikilinks

Hello,
WP:OVERLINK states that "Links may be repeated in infoboxes, tables, image captions, footnotes, and at the first occurrence after the lead." I can't really understand why you are neglecting this? Myxomatosis57 (talk) 17:49, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Seems like the edit infobox didn't capture this (was left empty), sorry. Anyway, I undid revision back to version by Rothorpe (talk) =P So I'm in favour of his/her edit... Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 18:08, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

It's allright. I appreciate your concern over the overlinks by the way. Myxomatosis57 (talk) 21:12, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

April 2014

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Collaboration

Hi JS! I'm going to take you up on that offer to address key shortcomings and systematic bias at the chiro article. I had been working on an improved/neutralized version in my sandbox. If follows the MEDMOS style as well (specific sections in specific order). How about you take a look and give me some feedback and we can start to prioritize where we're going to begin. DVMt (talk) 11:32, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi there, DVMt (talk)! Thanks for your proposal, sure I will accept it! I'll take a look at it with a better time! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 20:24, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

I made a proposal for a new lede at the chiro talk page. Give it a looksee and check out the language, tone, grammar. If that's OK to your eye, I can insert the citations, although I currently forget how to copy and paste the references from my sandbox to the talk page. There is a specific way of doing this, but I need a refresher. DVMt (talk) 23:36, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

I think before any significant changes are made to the article we should go present the case to a noticeboard of some sort (I forget the official name). This was done last year with respect to 'proving' that chiropractic was a health profession. What do you think? DVMt (talk) 21:24, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

JG, time to report QG, have your diffs ready, I'll have mine ready to go to. A topic ban on all alt-med articles, on specifically chiropractic and TCM would be appropriate. Please let me know when this is initiated. Diplomacy has failed, unfortunately. DVMt (talk) 23:10, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Here was the last report. See Wikipedia:Requests for comment/QuackGuru2.

For a new report you can start at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/QuackGuru3. But please be aware you must provide strong evidence. QuackGuru (talk) 05:50, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

3RR report closed

This is to inform you that an edit-warring noticeboard report in which you were involved has been closed. It is to further notify you that at the next sign of edit-warring on any pseudoscience related articles, including all alternative medicine articles, you will be blocked indefinitely.—Kww(talk) 03:45, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Indeed, that warning was miswritten. Consider it to read "The next sign of abusing administrative noticeboards to further pseudoscientific POVs will result in an indefinite block."—Kww(talk) 13:41, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

How come I was misusing the administrative noticeboards? I am not furthering any pseudoscientific POV's Kww, my report was concerning violation of 3RR. There sure were some lengthy discussions at the report that I filed, but I never participated any of those.

I don't think my warning is really fair. There was no POV pushing from my part: you can even notice that I didn't take any part of that POV-related discussion there. Could you please have another look at it? Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 13:58, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Why did you make a bogus report against me and continue to ignore the evidence against you. QuackGuru (talk) 20:21, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Explain. The diffs show your edit warring at the 3RR report. Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 20:28, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

What evidence? Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 20:28, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

The evidence shows you falsely accused me of violating the 3RR rule.[1][2] and you made a bogus 3RR report. User:Kww warned you. See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/3RRArchive245#User:QuackGuru_reported_by_User:Jayaguru-Shishya_.28Result:_DvMT_and_Jayaguru-Shishya_warned.29. See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive841#User:Jayaguru-Shishya_is_not_moving_on_and_he_is_continuing_his_battleground_behaviour. Do you agree you made a mistake? Do you agree you will stop following me to other articles? If you don't agree to stop following me then I think a topic ban for pseudoscience related articles is appropriate. I asked you before to stop following me. See User talk:Jayaguru-Shishya/Archive 1#Please stop following me to other articles and undoing my edits. You first edit to both articles[3][4] was to revert without explanation. See WP:HOUND. QuackGuru (talk) 20:38, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

WP:IDHT violation

I provided evidence that you have no consensus to restore the tag but you ignored it. The evidence is against you on this. QuackGuru (talk) 18:01, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

You provided a link to Talk:Chiropractic#Tag restored against CON again. As I already commented in my diff: "Doc James, McSly and Roxy the Dog were the only ones to comment besides you, DVMt and I at Talk:Chiropractic#Tag restored against CON again. As far as I can see, they made no objections."

You are making more and more allegations against me all the time. See Wikipedia:Harrassment#User space harassment. QuackGuru, are you here to edit collaboratively? Please answer my question. Thanks. Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 18:10, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

I also provided more evidence on the talk page there is no consensus for the tag. I don't see consensus for the NPOV tag. QuackGuru (talk) 18:54, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

How did I ignore them? No, I haven't ignored anything. You gave me the link and I already commented on that. The right place to discuss the issue is at Talk: Chiropractic. That's where the consensus is made, not on my Talk Page. So far, where are the objections?

You ignored my question: Are you here to edit collaboratively? You have been proposed collaboration for some times already, but you have never accepted the offer. Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 19:05, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

I'd like to suggest a RfC next time. Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 19:10, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Quack, you really need to stop the harassment and constantly trying to create drama when someone disagrees with your edits. Also, use the chiro talk page so all this can be documented. DVMt (talk) 15:07, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Interested in your POV

Hey, I made some edits on Acupuncture to help resolve the neutral POV tag, beginning with the introductory paragraph. Despite having very high quality references, I have seen those edits reverted wholesale without any discussion on the talk page. If you ever have the time, I'd be interested in your perspective.Klocek (talk) 17:27, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi and thanks for your message! I already answered you at the article Talk Page! :P Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 20:14, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

About nature source in TCM

I check the source from nature which define the TCM as pseudoscience. This source is [5]. Actually this article tries to refute another article which is also from nature [6]. The second one describe some opinion, one of them is to use system biology as a way to assess the usefulness of tcm. I just wonder whether it is good to use one article in nature as the view of nature journal and the primary source while ignore others which are also from nature. Despite article [7] which is also from nature 448 in 2007, I see another article from journal nature [8] which describe the usefulness (for dementia) of TCM. This article was published in 2010 and stated " Sound therapeutic effects promote more scientists, domestic and abroad, to study extracts from herbal medicines. Today, a great number of compounds from herb extracts have proven to be multi-targeted, low toxicity and potent in alleviating dementia." It seems there are many articles which present different idea in nature [9]. I wonder whether to add all of these sources from nature to keep neutrally. I hope someone can check all of these articles from nature journal [10]. Now I think one editorial in nature is a neutral description in this article but whatever, add the website link for the reference is a good way for reader to follow up the source. I don't think there is a standard nature magazine view. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.33.125.166 (talk) 00:27, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Greetings! I'm a bit busy these days but I promise to check through your sources with a better time! What do you think that would be the biggest contributions of those new sources to the article? Studies on the efficacy of TCM on dementia? Generally, if you have good reliable sources, I can't see any reason why such sources couldn't be used in the article. =P