Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/AcidSnow

AcidSnow

AcidSnow (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · spi block · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)

For archived investigations, see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/AcidSnow/Archive.

19 May 2017

– This SPI case is closed and will be archived shortly by an SPI clerk or checkuser.

Suspected sockpuppets

• Somajeeste (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · spi block · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)

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Back in January, AcidSnow tried to nominate Isaaq genocide for deletion, but bungled the AfD nomination process (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Isaaq Genocide was deleted, but admins will be able to see the history - see also my post at User_talk:AcidSnow#Isaaq Genocide AfD). Last week, Somajeeste also bungled an attempt to nominate the article for deletion. At first, I thought that this was just a coincidence, but comparing the editing histories of the two accounts has raised my suspicions. Compare this edit by Somajeeste with this by AcidSnow (e.g. the passage starting For those that did use the term "genocide", such as AlJazzera appears, slightly modified, in both). Cordless Larry (talk) 12:12, 19 May 2017 (UTC) Cordless Larry (talk) 12:12, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Both users are also pretty insistent that the article should be redirected to the article on the Somali Rebellion, with suspiciously similar use of words: compare this ("As mentioned before, the Isaaq weren't the only clan persecuted. The Somali Rebellion article already mentions some of the conflict") with this ("what this guy is referring is kind of duplicate from Somali Rebellion, these events are already partly mentioned on the Somali Rebellion article along with those of other clans"). Not necessarily damning on its own, maybe, but combined with the evidence above... Cordless Larry (talk) 12:26, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Similar situation with this and this. Cordless Larry (talk) 12:51, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

I'm also suspicious that there's a link with Middayexpress here, and that there are potentially other sock- or meatpuppets. See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive888#Middayexpress's external canvassing for some of the background. Cordless Larry (talk) 12:35, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

On this point, after Middayexpress was topic banned and quit the site, they posted at User talk:AcidSnow#WikiProjects that "There will be many new Horn editors joining soon, so please be sure to welcome them and show them the ropes. It's been nice working with you bro; we'll keep in touch". If Somajeeste is one of these new editors, an alternative explanation for them using AcidSnow's wording in comments could be that the latter is somehow coaching them along the lines of Middayexpress's suggestion. Cordless Larry (talk) 18:59, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Comments by AcidSnow

Hello everyone. I have been out the loop due to personal matters. Nonetheless, I would like to take the time to state that this user is not me. I have plenty of experience with reporting people for socking to know what actions not to take when doing so. If follow up information is needed, then l'll try my best to respond to all of them. AcidSnow (talk) 04:13, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

@AcidSnow: Some of the texts and links of Somajeeste are identical to those by you, but the gap of many months or year is unusual. This could have happened because of copying without disclosure, by either Somajeeste or you or both. Would either of you admit copying?, or offer another explanation? This may be relevant to the behavioral review and the due consideration of any attenuating factors. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 13:50, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

I didn't copy any other user. A pervious user was also blocked for a failed attempted at copying my username in the past (see here: [1]). I am not particular sure what either users motives were for doing so. In regards to the possibility of meta-puppeting, I never instructed any individual to come to Wikipedia. It has been almost two years since these accusations first surfaced. For the most part the Somalia project has as usual remained underpopulated. AcidSnow (talk) 15:36, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

To be honest, I only returned due to being notified by CordlessLarry that there was socking accusations against me. I responded a few hours after his notification (see here: [2]). As is stated previously I have my own personal matters that I have been attendeing to. Awale-Abdi's edits are nothing more than a coincidence. AcidSnow (talk) 17:00, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

Okay, but the blocked @AcidSnoww is not relevant here, and that account never seems to have edited any article. I note you did not offer an alternate explanation to the multiple unusual instances of identical texts/links separated by gaps of many months. Perhaps, Somajeeste may. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 02:04, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Tagging @Somajeeste: in case they did not see @Ms Sarah Welch: query above. Kzl55 (talk) 08:43, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

Comments by other users

Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

This is ridiculous, and it is just harassment against me (by taking groundless accusation of someone with disruptive editing who drives his POV-agenda). i genuinely thought you were neutral editor but now i see where you coming from, and now to accuse me of sockpuppeteering is beyond my thinking, Good lucky with that.Somajeeste (talk) 12:41, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

It's hardly groundless, Somajeeste - as demonstrated above, you have made comments worded identically to those made by AcidSnow. If there is an innocent explanation for that, you would be well advised to give it here. Cordless Larry (talk) 12:44, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

It appears both accounts (AcidSnow, Somajeeste) have canvassed the same editor for their respective AfD nominations: AcidSnow [3], [4].

Somajeeste [5].Kzl55 (talk) 13:07, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

• Support a checkuser for Somajeeste and AcidSnow. Additional evidence: both champion a redirect (1, 2, 3) wherein both allege Isaaq genocide is covered by Somali Rebellion when it doesn't. More evidence is the identical source links by both, four months apart: (4, 5): https://books.google.com/books?id=0lXJ6nHj5HIC&dq=%22Hawiye+were+considered+comparable+in+scale%22&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=%22Government+atrocities+inflicted+on+the+Hawiye+were+considered+comparable+in+scale+to+those+against+the+Majeerteen+and+Isaaq.%22 ; Parse that and other embedded google search terms by the two users in the provided links. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 15:59, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
• Additional evidence: both accounts used this same exact string "which is not accepted here. Therefore, I strongly advise you to stop that or risk being topic banned", this exact string does not appear anywhere else online, AcidSnow [6], Somajeeste [7]. Also this string "Don't shout at me and calm down" is only ever used on WP by the same two accounts and does not appear anywhere else online except for one single Google books search result, AcidSnow [8], Somajeeste [9]. Kzl55 (talk) 23:57, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

• @Buckshot06:, @El C:, @NeilN:, et al: please consider the behavioral evidence since you all have issued cautions to the accounts in question, in light of the unusual repeated instances of identical text evidences above. See e.g. 6, 7 by AcidSnow and Somajeeste, posted nearly one year apart. AcidSnow is a dormant account, its last activity during an January 2017 ANI proceeding. This is beyond the CU request, Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 03:03, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

• Both editors AcidSnow and Awale-Abdi have been absent from Wikipedia for an extended period of time, four months in the case of AcidSnow and one month for Awale-Abdi. Yet both of them came back to Wikipedia on the exact same day, (20 May), and both of their posts (AcidSnow on this SPI, and Awale-Abdi in an AfD the first incarnation of which was started by AcidSnow) happened within minutes of one another (AcidSnow, 05:13, [10]), (Awale-Abdi, 05:59) [11]. This strongly suggests collusion outside of Wikipedia and meat-puppetry, especially since Awale-Abdi has already admitted being an acquaintance of AcidSnow [12]. It is worthy of note that Awale-Abdi's vote in the AfD went in support of the deletion nomination, just like AcidSnow in his previous attempt (Awale-Abdi also voted in that attempt in support of deletion, found here Talk:Isaaq genocide#AfD discussion click to expand content). Kzl55 (talk) 16:32, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for the back-up, Bbb23 (see below). I don't know anyone on Wikipedia outside of it. And, unlike Acidsnow, I'm quite transparent about who I am and don't like using pseudonyms online. I'm either "Awale Abdi" or "Awale Ismail" or simply "Awale" practically everywhere on the internet (see here and here, for instance) where all these usernames contain parts of my real full-name (Awale Ismail Abdi) or that's at least been the case since I turned 18 several years ago. Anyone claiming Acidsnow and I are the same person (if that is what is being implied here) doesn't know what they're talking about. He's an acquaintance to me because I've known him on Wikipedia for years now, right back to when Middayexpress used to post profusely but otherwise... There's nothing else between us. I also don't edit much nowadays because why would I? Other than the recent propagandist activities of user Kzl55; I've seen nothing worth addressing on Wikipedia. I only get active when I notice something is "off" like when a now banned member (ironically for having socks) named Kiziotherapy used to keep editing away the fact that the Harla possibly spoke a Cushitic language. I'll leave it at that. If there's anyway for the admins to check IPs like Acidsnows then here's my public IP address as per google and please do compare it to his if you want: (5.107.128.129) and, if it's any consolation, it makes no sense to me as someone who's observed him edit for years that Acidsnow would have sock-puppet accounts, after what happened with Kiziotherapy (a user we both had unpleasant run-ins with); he should know better.

To add to the above, I don't know if you can find it but I think there's a conversation somewhere between me and Acidsnow on Wikipedia where I asked him what he was ethnically (I wanted to know if he was Somali like me) then Middayexpress chimed in and told Acidsnow not to disclose his private information or at least feel obligated to do so. I think it was in the "Somalis" talk page (archived now, I think by Midday) and was, and I'm not entirely sure about this, a conversation between me and Midday about Somali genomics where Acidsnow chimed in. It was years ago now so forgive the haziness. Anyway, what a strange question for a supposed sock to ask it's supposed originator in an off-handed manner... Regards, Awale-Abdi (talk) 15:08, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Ah, I found the archived conversation between myself and Midday:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Somalis/Archive_6

Unfortunately, I was mistaken and I didn't talk to Acidsnow there. Can't remember where I asked him what he was ethnically if it's not in that instance. Anyway... Regards, Awale-Abdi (talk) 15:27, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

• You have not addressed the central point raised on this page regarding your the timing of edits for yourself and editor AcidSnow. No one here suggested that you and AcidSnow are the same person, the point raised was regarding collusion outside of WP and meat-puppetry. Both yourself and AcidSnow have been on hiatus for an extended amount of time, one month and four months respectively, yet both of you returned to Wikipedia on the exact same day and your posts were separated by minutes (AcidSnow, 05:13), (Awale-Abdi, 05:59). Incidentally, both of you also posted on topics related to AcidSnow upon return. I am tagging @Bbb23: to clarify I did not suggest Awale and AcidSnow were the same person. Kzl55 (talk) 09:45, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

"You have not addressed the central point raised on this page regarding your the timing of edits for yourself and editor AcidSnow."

I really have no interest in further engaging this tangent. I don't know why on Earth Acidsnow and I posted within close time-frames of each other, I just posted around then because I finally got some free-time from revising for my final exams and was keeping up with the discussions as a lurker prior. I don't know Acidsnow outside of Wikipedia. I don't know anyone on here, other than James Dahl (goes by a username I'm forgetting right now), outside of Wikipedia and I knew James (think his username is "Runehelmet", not sure) before I joined Wiki. Midday, Acidsnow, Soupforone... I've encountered these people for a while now and spoken to them on Wikipedia a lot but that's about it. You can spin this nonsense however you like... I've done nothing wrong and you have no real proof that I have. Take care, Awale-Abdi (talk) 22:06, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

I would like to state clearly here that i don't know any editors here in real life and i am not intend to know some random wikipedia editor, and I don't use any pseudonyms on WP, NO ONE, NO ONE INSTRUCT to me to do it, i voluntarily nominated the article deletion which i thought its inconsistent and incoherent to be in wikipedia, and i found out it was nominated but not probably and i feel to do it ( the books and links above as i found it on talk page and use it as shortcut ) anything other than that is coincident, I Hope this rest to bed. Cheers. Somajeeste (talk) 01:32, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

It is highly unlikely for such clear repetition of identical text and links as evidenced above to be just a coincidence. Do you have any other explanation? Kzl55 (talk) 11:28, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

• Additional behavioural evidence: A fixation on replacement of Somaliland's flag with Somalia's flag across multiple pages, examples include: (AcidSnow [13], Somajeeste [14], (AcidSnow [15], Somajeeste [16]), (AcidSnow [17], Somajeeste [18]).

There is also unusual activity on Somajeeste's talkpage, for instance on 11 May an editor by the name of Blaj0923 with no prior editing history posted on Somajeeste's talkpage to ask them to start an SPI [19], this is that editor's only post ever Special:Contributions/Blaj0923, yet they seemed aware of WP policy (3RR) and very WP specific guidelines (sockpuppetry). Another editor, Blujknf32, only registered to ask Somajeeste to perform an edit [20], Blujknf32 was performing edits minutes after asking Somajeeste to perform said edit Special:Contributions/Blujknf32, so it is not clear exactly why they posted on Somajeeste's talkpage. Kzl55 (talk) 11:28, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

• Recommend running CU. El_C 03:36, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
•  Unrelated.--Bbb23 (talk) 02:31, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

• Just to be clear, AcidSnow is also  Unrelated to Awale-Abdi (talk · contribs · count), and based on the technical details, I seriously doubt that AcidSnow and Awale-Abdi know each other in real life. My guess is when Awale-Adbi said "acquaintance", he didn't mean that; more likely, he meant he knew of the editor on Wikipedia. The three users edit from three different continents.--Bbb23 (talk) 02:40, 21 May 2017 (UTC)--Bbb23 (talk) 02:40, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

• @El C: I'm looking for a second opinion here, if your able to provide one. For me while the technical evidence doesn't line up, there are many situations where it's almost like direct copy paste has been used, which has gotten to the point where I feel they harbour a lot of the same opinions without differentiating enough as is required by WP:MEAT. I haven't looked into Awale-Abdi as they were not part of the original claim. At this point i'm looking for an opinion from an administrator about the idea of blocking AcidSnow and Somajeeste per MEAT. I may ask another admin or two to look at this. -- Amanda (aka DQ) 20:00, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

• El C, just a reminder about this. I don't know if you're able or willing to give an opinion, but it would be good to get this case resolved either way. Cordless Larry (talk) 11:51, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

• Unrelated to this, I've blocked the user for a week for breaching 3RR for a 2nd time. *** Indeed, the evidence looks compelling, I have to admit, Amanda, Cordless Larry—even with the CU being unrelated. El_C 14:15, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

• @El C, Cordless Larry, and DeltaQuad: I've looked over this and I'm unable to get past differences in speech between the two editors. For an idea of what I mean by the language differences, check out this [21] [22]. Yes, they contain the same phrase ("I strongly advise you to stop that or risk being topic banned."), but AcidSnow's speech is consistent with that phrase whereas the phrase feels very out of place in the usually broken English of Somajeeste. Further, what do the identical phrases do to support sockpuppetry? One does not copy/paste identical phrases while trying to evade scrutiny with multiple accounts, and the phrase is too large and specific to just attribute it to the consistent speech pattern of a single individual. An actual copy/paste seems more likely. There are also substantial differences behaviorally; AcidSnow has not had the edit-warring problems that Somajeeste has, and that's one of those things editors generally either do or don't do with little change in behavior over time. In my opinion, the copy/pasting of AcidSnow's language (and then refusing to admit it) demonstrates one more behavioral problem from Somajeeste and justifies a WP:NOTHERE block. I think AcidSnow is a bystander in this. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 01:36, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

• I would support that course of action, BU Rob13. I was initially suspicious that the AfD actions were very similar, but perhaps that could also have been a case of Somajeeste attempting to copy AcidSnow, in a different way to the copying of comments. Cordless Larry (talk) 06:12, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

This case is being reviewed by Sro23 as part of the clerk training process. Please allow them to process the entire case without interference, and pose any questions or concerns either on their Talk page or on this page if more appropriate.

• I have to agree with BU Rob13's assessment that AcidSnow is just a bystander in this. One explanation is that Somajeeste isn't confident enough in their English proficiency to express themselves using their own words, so they directly copy from others. AcidSnow is a well-known editor involved in Wikipedia:SOMALIA, so that could be why they were chosen. Taking into account the fact that Somajeeste received edit-warring blocks, which is uncharacteristic for AcidSnow, as well as the technical evidence, I'm closing with no action. Sro23 (talk) 02:20, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

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