Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cowboys–Packers rivalry

Cowboys–Packers rivalry

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Cowboys–Packers rivalry (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Contested PROD. Originally proposed with the rationale "There is nothing here to suggest an actual rivalry between these two teams. The fact that they are both teams in the NFL, even in the same conference, means they are bound to play each other on a semi-regular basis, but a rivalry needs some true enmity between the two teams, and none has been demonstrated here." Although content has been added recently to substantiate the periods when the two teams were each other's direct competition for titles and a couple of notable games between them, there is nothing to suggest that there is an actual rivalry between the teams where each of them looks for their matchups against the other when the schedule is released. When they meet each other, there is very little in the way of discussion about continuing a rivalry or igniting old hatreds. It's just another game in the NFL schedule. – PeeJay 00:49, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. ^{Engr. Smitty Werben} 03:02, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Texas-related deletion discussions. ^{Engr. Smitty Werben} 03:02, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Wisconsin-related deletion discussions. ^{Engr. Smitty Werben} 03:02, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Popular culture-related deletion discussions. ^{Engr. Smitty Werben} 03:03, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. The article is very poorly sourced and a search of Cowboys Packers rivalry does not provide much in establishing this game as a "rivalry" game. Just because teams have played in the playoffs several times does not automatically make them rivals. Frank Anchor^Talk 11:31, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
• Delete page for non-existent rivalry. – Sabbatino (talk) 14:39, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
• Delete. No sourced evidence that this is an actual rivalry. Ultimately this is an essay, not an encyclopedia article. --Kinu ^t/_c 06:52, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
• Delete not a major rivalry and it needs reliable sources. Royalbroil 05:31, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. EPIC STYLE ^{(LET'S TALK)} 02:55, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
• Comment. I dunno, I mean, these two teams do actually have a lot of memorable and significant playoff meetings between them (things like the Ice Bowl, etc.). I get that the article right now is significantly under-developed, but that could very well be an editing issue, not necessarily a deletion issue. We already have rivalry articles for Cowboys–Steelers, Packers–Seahawks, and Cowboys–Texans, and this would appear at first blush to be of similar significance to at least the fist two of those, albeit with many of the significant meetings here occurring in the pre-Internet era. Ejgreen77 (talk) 17:52, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
• Keep, although the article is in bad shape, that is not a reason to delete. I once was pretty hesitant about these "rivalry" pages, thinking that they only really should exist for clear and obvious, long-standing rivalries (i.e. Chicago Bears-Green Bay Packers rivalry). But now I look at them in the following lens:

• Longstanding? - Yes, 60 years old
• Same conference? (so they have and will meet often) - Yes, both in the NFC and have met 37 times.
• Notable games against each other - Yes, Ice Bowl, 3 NFC Championship games, met 8 times in the playoffs, The Dez Bryant "No-Catch Game"
• Reliable sources identifying the fact that a "rivalry" exists? - Yes: "these two storied franchises have competed in some of the NFL's greatest games" (CBS Sports), "Let’s Admit That the Packers Are the Cowboys’ Top Rival Now" (Texas Monthly magazine), "5 Most Memorable Games Of Green Bay Packers-Dallas Cowboys Rivalry" (Forbes), "Aaron Rodgers' domination of Dallas has changed tune of Packers-Cowboys rivalry" (Sporting News), "Cowboys, Packers set to resume storied playoff rivalry" (Associated Press).

In addition to the articles above, there are a number of print sources on Newspapers.com that reinforce the rivalry status (Wikipedia Newspaper.com accounts no longer provide access to a large amount of these articles, so I can't clip links, see here for the preview of the results of the search): Packers-Cowboys rivalry has history (Arizona Republic), Another big game in Packers-Cowboys rivalry (Manitowoc Herald-Times), The latest 4 decades of huge games: Packers-Cowboys rivalry rich (Northwest Herald), Long Packers-Cowboys rivalry renewed Sunday (Messenger-Inquirer), Packers-Cowboys rivalry has lost some mystique (The Times Leader), and that's just a drop in the bucket of articles on Newspapers.com specifically referencing a rivalry existing. Note that these sources are from across the country, not just local or regional to Wisconsin or Dallas area.

A few important points here:

• The rivalry was more dominant in the 60s and 90s, but just because it wasn't recent doesn't take away from its notability
• I have provided 10(!) reliable sources in just 30 minutes of searching
• The article needs to be improved, but that doesn't mean it should be deleted.

PeeJay, Frank Anchor, Sabbatino, Kinu, Royalbroil, 777burger, Ejgreen77, please take a look at this new information, if you can, and see if it is sufficient to alleviate your concerns about the article. Cheers, « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 17:32, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

The "longstanding" and "same conference" argument are baseless. The two teams have only played 37 times, including the playoffs, over 61 seasons. This is three games in five years on average. Under the current schedule rotation, the two teams are only guaranteed to meet once every three seasons, though they can meet more often (if they finish in the same place in their divisions the previous season) or meet in the playoffs. Under the current scheduling rotation (since 2002), they have met only 12 times in 19 years (including two playoff meetings). Also, just because tams have been in the same league for 60+ years does not automatically make them rivals, as you assert. Many other teams have been in the NFL/NFC since 1960 that do not have rivalry pages with the Cowboys. Thank you for presenting the impressive list of sources from a wide array of sources including top national authorities on NFL coverage (such as CBS and the AP) and other national sources. While I stand by my delete vote, it is a "weaker" delete as these reference are much somewhat better than what is there now (namely nothing). Frank Anchor^Talk 21:05, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Frank Anchor appreciate the re-review. I'm not necessary saying that all teams that existed for long times are rivals, more importantly that they have been playing each other consistently (3 games in 5 years, as you mentioned) and that they have played in a number of notable games. There are a number of NFC teams that the Packers have played for years, but aren't considered rivals (Arizona Cardinals, for example). I think ten reliable sources specifically calling two teams who play each other as "rivals" is sufficient to establish notability, but respect your opinion. Cheers, « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 21:35, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

• Comment I have improved, copyedited and added 6 sources to the page. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 22:30, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
• Keep. Meets WP:GNG with sources like this, this, this, this, this, this, this, and this, in addition to the sources that Gonzo fan2007 has already found. Ejgreen77 (talk) 23:06, 28 December 2020 (UTC)