Talk:The Black Dahlia Murder (band)

Why The Current (Protected) Version Should Remain

The Black Dahlia Murder is a band from Detroit, Michigan.

The most neutral as a description could be.

Their musical genre has been a subject of debate among listeners and fans - sometimes being called melodic death metal, and other times metalcore.

TRUE. In reviews at both Amazon.com and CD Now, reviewers refer to the band as Metalcore or Melodic Death Metal. (There's even a list on Amazon.com in which TBDM is listed as a "Top Metalcore Band").

Out of 79 reviews of "Unhallowed", 4 people called it metalcore, 1 person called it hardcore and 1 called it grindcore. Didn't bother with Miasma, because it clearly is death metal (not even that melodic) but you wouldn't know because you never heard it.

However, some think that their Swedish Death Metal influence would make them a melodic death metal band. Fact is, they've been categorized as both.

Only by you

However, in a press release, the band also describes their sound as Hardcore-influenced death metal, which in some respect confirms the metalcore label.

TRUE.

FALSE. Not the band, their record label.

The band supposedly says this is wrong - why? They started as a metalcore band and began playing Swedish styles. How is this any different than the way Unearth, Underoath, As I Lay Dying, Bleeding Through, et all, started? Perhaps this could be further elaborated on by those who disagree with the metalcore affiliation.

Perhaps you would elaborate how do you define metalcore and melodeath, besides the very detailed description "chuga-chuga riffs". You said AILD, Lamb of God and TBDM sound the same, how am I supposed to take you seriously? Your only arguments are that many metalcore fans listen to TBDM (proves nothing) and that they are influenced by swedish melodeath like many metalcore groups (proves nothing either).

In addition, many metalcore bands have taken great influence to the Swedish Death Metal scene.

Also TRUE.(based on the ladder) State your 2c. Danteferno11:08, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

Impasse

There will probably be no agreement as to what genre TBDM belongs to, however, 83.24.5.179 has come to a consensus on some things:

• 1.) The band started as a metalcore band.
• 2.) They currently tour with many metalcore bands.
• 3.) Most of their fanbase denotes a metalcore audience
• 4.) The band cites Swedish death metal as a musical influence, common for many metalcore bands.
• 5.) Metal Blade Records called them a "Hardcore-influenced death metal" band in a press release, which I'm sure (know) was for a good reason, and I really don't believe that the Press Relations at MBR are misinformed.

With this in mind, it would be misleading to call TBDM "firmly melodic death metal", as there would probably be some disagreement to call them metalcore as well. Thus, I feel my version is truly warranted, accurate, and neurtral - however, I am open to an "Argument and Debate on Genre" section that anyone has in mind.

Further Dismantling The Claim That TBDM Is Melodic Death Metal

However, their harsh melodic riffage

Bleeding Through, Atreyu and As I Lay Dying (among others) also have "harsh melodic riffage".

They also have blast beats, death growls, shredding solos and palm muted tremolo pickings on the low strings, typical for thrash and death metal. Hardcore, coming from punk, uses more power chords and is generally slower. And metalcore vocals are just terrible shoutingh.

Blast beats? Yes (but so do many other metalcore bands) death growls? (Not really, most of TBDM's vocals are in the form of a shriek and the growls are more metalcore-ish growls) Shreading solos? (Puh-lease. Not in this band. Just the same chuga-chuga riffs like every other metalcore band.)

I see this discussion is pointless, you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

NOPE - being that you did not answer any of those points, quite the contrary.

dark lyrics

Lamb of God, All Shall Parish (among others) also have dark lyrics.

yes and they are metalcore as hell.

...Just like The Black Dahlia Murder. How are The Black Dahlia Murder any different than these bands?

Oh yes! How could I not notice this before, TBDM sounds identical to Lamb of God! You got me there.

Nice that you can admit to one thing (in addition to TBDM being more associated with metalcore audiences and touring with metalcore bands.)

and self professed death metal influences

And Hardcore influences, as the band has stated in addition to metal influences.

link/quote please

It's in their press-release by Metal Blade (the one you don't want to

acknowledge.)

Oh you mean the one they say is wrong? BTW, nice going, deleting my question about Miasma and all.

Which leaves us at: METALCORE. There is a large difference when listening to Dark Tranquillity, In Flames and Opeth, and then to The Black Dahlia Murder. That difference is called sound.

Yes, they combine gothenburg melodic sound with american death metal. So that difference is mainly called speed.

WHAT American Death Metal? They sound absolutely nothing like Cannibal Corpse, Morbid Angel, Deicide, et al. Just the same derivative Gothenburg influence that many other metalcore bands use.

Ok, they take swedish melodeath and play it twice as fast. How does that make them metalcore? The only thing they have in common are Gothenburg influences. They first demo was metalcore, and there it stopped. I remember Trevor saying something along the lines of "don't download it, it seriously sucks, that's in the past and we want to forget about it" on their old forum.

You still haven't explained how they are influenced by American death metal.They may say it,but they also seem to say a lot of things, as you seem to be pointing out.You're now admitting that they started as a metalcore band. With that admission, why are you so rear-hurt about including their ever-so-obvious metalcore affiliations in the article? Your silly revert war is taking this absolutely nowhere, so either deal with the article PARTIALLY and FAIRLY balancing out both genres, or find some other venue for your trolling purposes.

The Black Dahlia Murder's Press Release calls their sound "Hardcore"-influenced

The official band's press release, describing the music: "The Intensity of Hardcore, the hellish stench of death-metal" (That sounds like Metalcore to me.)

Perhaps 83.24.5.179 could explain this to us, as he/she continues to revert anything with hardcore/metalcore out of the article.

"When we started out around five years ago, we had a very different line up to what we have today. In fact, the only people from that line up that remain today are Strnad and I. Back then, our sound was very much like a mix of hardcore and metal. We recorded a demo tape (Consisting of four tracks) with that kind of sound, but that’s when it all ended. Everything since then has been a lot different sounding because we didn’t want to write shit like that any more. We wanted to play fucking metal. That’s actually the first theory behind why people believe we have a hardcore influence. The second theory, and the one we believe has played the biggest part is helping fuel this misconception is actually our record label Metal Blade Records. A lot of the press that Metal Blade Records has been doing over the last couple of years has described us as a melodic metal band that incorporates New York hardcore. I mean that’s so far off left field from the actual truth! But that was our introduction to the world on a grand scale. That’s how they presented the band. So that’s something that we’ve been dealing with ever since! They actually thought that we’re a metalcore band. How funny and ironic is it that a label should brand us as something so off the mark." - from an interview with Brian Eschbach

They think we're metalcore just because we have short hair. You listen to our record, and it doesn't sound like metalcore. - from an interview with Trevor Strnad

So the lead singer/members are in denial of the actual influences and sound of their band, yet they obviously sound like, look like, and have fans that are a part of the genre that they deny. (metalcore/hardcore.) If the lead singer said jumping off a cliff was a cure for the common cold, would you publish that in the article? Reverted back. Sorry. :(

Revert War

This revert war needs to stop. Please complare revert versions between myself and 83.24.5.179. Nearly EVERY review of this band has brought up both metalcore and melodic death metal as the genre, and since the Swedish death metal scene has had much influence on many metalcore bands (like TBDM, IMO), there seems to be little rationale in trying to deny or distance the metalcore connection (the music has the same repetitive riffs as countless other Swedecore/Metalcore bands, namely Bleeding Through, Atreyu and As I Lay Dying.) My version says that have been categorized as both genres. 83.24.5.179's version says that they're just melodic death metal, that's that, and that there's no connection to metalcore. 83.24.5.179's motive is most likely trolling, as he/she's version also smacks of obvious NPOV and he/she is unwilling to debate. Danteferno

I have protected the article as it is getting out of hand. Sasquatch讲看 00:20, September 9, 2005 (UTC)

Sometimes called Metalcore, eh?

There is one reason why The Black Dahlia Murder is ever called metalcore and that is pretty much because they tour with metalcore bands. Their music is pure Gothenburg sound, their lyrics involve zombies, and necrophaliacal rape, and they can easily be called an At The Gates sound alike. If you're going to call The Black Dahlia Murder metalcore, you'll have to do the same to In Flames and Carcass. I'm changing the part mentioning metalcore.

unrealshadow13

There are many more reasons than that in terms of why the band has been applied with the metalcore label: 1. Same-ish song structures. 2. Same-ish breakdowns 3. Limited guitar solos (since most metalcore bands rely on punk song structures, which are usually solo-less.) There are some traces of Gothenburg, but like most U.S. bands utlizing the style (Shadows Fall, Lamb of God, etc.) it all comes down to "hardcore" roots. Since there is no firm agreement to either assessment, the version I made works just fine.